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1 - UpsetJT
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Waiting for more, very upset
My husband says he's "trans"... genderqueer, unbinary... so many damn terms! I can't help but be so pissed! Angry most days. While he's buying women's clothing on eBay! I'm trying not to cry ALLLL day. We have been going to a therapist for over a year about his adoption, his parents and his hate for religion. Things were going well. He seemed "not so depressed." I was getting excited about our progress. Then a few weeks ago he tells me that he's in fact genderqueer. That all his life he has felt as if he is a female (brain) inside a male body.
Then he shaved off all his body hair. He ordered some leggings and sexy underwear (men's). Lost like 15 pounds, paints his nails and toe nails, purchased women's heels and wears make-up.He like flipped over night! I'm sad mainly because I feel like my husband died, and now I have some guy living here. I've never been so depressed! I hate this!
He says he's not gay, that he would like to be a female but with me. I'm not gay, I love men, I love him! It's just what turns me on, what I like! I feel like he can sense when he over does the female side because the next day he's back into his men's underwear. Then I get the "I'm both genders, I'm no genders.
All I can do is sit here and cry. What the hell is happening! Why now. I have a terrible (genitaclly) body. I have several health problems. I hope to make it to 65-70 years old! I just wanted to live my life happy live how we were. Now it's like I'm waiting for him to say he's infact gay. He gets very pissed when I ask. He says he likes women (just me!) he watched "shemale" porn and says he would love long hair and some day boobs would be cool!
When I ask him he keeps saying "if I was gay I wouldn't still be having sex with you"
We have amazing sex. I just feel like he's looking at me while we have sex and imaging himself as me. It's so hard to explain. I love him so much. He explained that he feels free now and that he can really be himself. That his masculine body disgusted him, he wishes he was David Bowie or Eddie Izard.
I'm falling apart.
This is all over the place, I jump from one thing to the next... sorry... I just don't care to fix any of the above... thought about deleting... ah
I just wanted to unload. 😖
- Daryl
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Re: Waiting for more, very upset
Unload away, that's one important thing you can do here. You are not the only person here dealing with a trans or transitioning spouse. Feeling like your spouse died is not unusual - except they are still here, just no longer the person we thought they were. What's worse is that this also makes our past not what we thought it was. Remember you didn't cause this. Check back, especially if you need to vent. You might want to consider some personal counseling as well. Remember to breath.
“The future is unwritten.”
― Joe Strummer
- OutofHisCloset
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Re: Waiting for more, very upset
Upset,
I am one of those married to a man who's declared he's transgendered. I'm twenty months post-disclosure. I, too, have felt as you do: like I fell down the rabbit hole and have been riding an emotional roller coaster ever since. If he's in the closet, experimenting at home with no (current) plans to come out, then that's an additional burden of isolation you bear, too.
Please know that what you're observing is not unique, but part of a pattern; what you describe fits the profile for what many of us have gone through and observed, from the "pink fog" (thanks, Sham, for that term) of excitement he feels when he's dressing in women's clothes or feminizing his body by shaving or doing his nails or wearing make up, to the feeling that when you're making love he's imagining himself as you (like a vampire sucking up your experience as if it were his lifeblood). You may, as many of us do, think his ultra-feminine version of "woman" a sexist stereotype, and feel angry that he'd define woman in such surface ways; you may find yourself feeling assailed in your own womanhood, because you don't fit this sexist stereotype, and his embrace of it feels like an accusation or denigration.
On the one hand, it is comforting to know there are patterns, because you're not alone; on the other, it's terrifying, because you are hoping in your heart of hearts this is just some weird anomaly or phase and your husband will come to his senses and go back to being who he was. You can probably take him at his word that he is not gay; many men who decide they want to be (or think they "are") women remain attracted to women and claim they are now lesbians, although the research says that some of these men will also seek out a sexual experience with a man, because they see the ultimate female experience as penetration by a man. (How sexist is that, as if women were to be defined only in relation to man--if you want any proof he's not a woman there it is, in a nutshell, in my opinion. And while we're at it, ask yourself this: how could a man who has lived his entire life with male biology and socialization know what it feels like to be a woman? It's insulting, really.) But your world has changed, and in order to figure out what's right for you in the face of this change, you have to accept that one very basic fact. He's changed, and he'll continue to change. It's clear from the many terms and contradictory things he's saying that he's trying on ways to think about what he is feeling: how can he be genderqueer or "both genders" if his masculine body also "disgusted" him? What he's saying about wanting breasts means he has body dysmorphia--a feeling of discomfort in his male body--to go alone with his wish to feminize himself by adopting feminine clothing and other outward signs of femininity. Unfortunately, the psychological community by and large thinks the way to treat this psychological discomfort or longing is to give the green light to these desires, as if "female" and "woman" are synonymous, and one can become female through hormones and plastic surgery on one's genitals and woman by shopping in the women's section and donning make up. I and others here can tell you this: as long as you stay with him, your world is going to be very different from the one you have been imagining and working for.
And yes, it sucks. It sucks big time. It's crazy-making and infuriating and very, very sad. Last night I was watching a movie with my husband and found myself crying while watching a husband and wife interacting in the film, because I want a husband, not a man who wants to be the wife. I went to bed--I now sleep in another room (although I, too, found the sex fantastic at first, until I got creeped out by it and tired of having every sexual encounter be defined by his need to play woman) because it's too painful to lie in bed next to him wanting him or wanting comfort from him but knowing he's the very source of my discomfort--and wept with grief for the loss of my husband. And after I cried it out, I began to look forward to the end of my marriage and to think about how in not too long I can put all this trans nonsense behind me, and watching a movie or putting on a piece of clothing will no longer be fraught.
So vent away. And read around here: there are many posts now on trans issues, but I have found that much of what the spouses of gays/lesbians feel and have undergone fit my situation, too.
Last edited by OutofHisCloset (December 4, 2016 6:50 am)
- Rob
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Re: Waiting for more, very upset
I find myself watching all the silly Christmas shows on the Hallmark channel...not because I'm in a festive mood for Christmas but because they feature heterosexual relationships.
UpsetJT,
"..All I can do is sit here and cry. What the hell is happening! Why now" .....
While my ex was not transgender she may as well have been.... dildos and double dildos showing up in the mail....its like she started a gay affair and figured she would go all out .. Between her and her girlfriend I could not figure out which was the male.. I think they are both big mean female bullies.
I don't think this is what we signed up for.. I don't think "in sickness and in health" meant we were suppose to support our spouses hurting us. Mine was actively cheating so I know a person is not supposed to support that.
She can say what a horrible husband I've been and I didnt do this or that ...ok...not true ..but ok.. but that then gives her the right to cheat and have sex with another woman? How sick and warped was her logic.
I say gather strength on your own...get your own therapist.. you cannot change your husbands actions and issues.. If he doesn't see or care how much it is hurting you...well that is just narcissism.. So often I read here how the gay or transgender person cannot help what they are doing. Ok.. but that lack of compassion or empathy is still inflicted on the spouse that trusted them and looked to them for support and care... The transgender/gay/green alien spouse is for all practical purposes a narcissist then ..
My ex took it to nth degree and became so mean and cruel I thought she was Satan himself. I don't think when I signed up for marriage and vowed before God to cherish my wife it meant that I/we was to be abused in such away..whether they can help it or not.. We are not Gods..we are human..we have feeling and deserve dignity and respect...we deserve love.. My ex was treating me with worst dignity and respect than a stranger on the street... my worst enemies were kinder. Our spouses should not make us cry and shake.. that is not normal.. they can say it is ..but it is not...deep down in our bones we know it is not.
A warm e-hug (virtual but sincere and authentic).
Last edited by Rob (December 4, 2016 10:45 am)
"For we walk by faith, not by sight .." 2Corinthians 5:7
- UpsetJT
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Re: Waiting for more, very upset
Thanks for these replies. I appreciate them!
I keep finding myself thinking that he will contiue (i read about spouses "going back")... I know I get that they don't. I have asked "how far are you going to go?"
He keeps saying he doesn't want anyone else.or to go "farther" that he's cool just wearing nail polish, make up and some gender neutral clothing. That he has thought about sucide before, also saying "if I didn't have you I'd probably off myself" so I reply with... "so I'm supposed to pretend I'm a lesbian and stay super depressed (because I lost my fucking husband!) for the rest of my life so you don't kill yourself?!" Come on... that's a pretty shitty thing to do to someone.
I don't want anybody else, I know I'm only 35 life could go on without him... but this is the person I want forever and now he's about gone! It's like he's telling me he's gone and I'm supposed to love this new boy/girl because that who he is. I don't even feel sad or sorry for what he's "going through" (I put myself in that position, mentally). If you felt this way for 40years then that day you put a ring on my finger is a day too late to have shared this information... cause you just gave me two middle fingers and said "welcome to your new fucked up shitty life" as if my autoimmune diseases haven't already done this to me! (Ah crap was I not supposed to swear on here)
I'm not on Facebook cause I have better things to do... if you are my damn friend then call me... (FB-another story altogether!). He's on there and is all "I'm out of the closet".... um what fucking closet? (My friend shared with me his posts) You told your wife you have a female brain in your male body... that's coming out of a closet?
So yeah, I'm not on FB, most of my friends have moved to different states, my sisters (I have 4) all moved to different states as well. I don't drink, I don't smoke... how they hell does a 35yr old female find friends? Not going to a bar, I'm not into religious groups... shit I'm lonely!
I gotta shut this brain off! Stay tuned for more random selfish ramble. I'm sure I offended someone here, I'm offended too.
- •
Thread Starter- Daryl
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Re: Waiting for more, very upset
UpsetJT wrote:
He keeps saying he doesn't want anyone else.or to go "farther" that he's cool just wearing nail polish, make up and some gender neutral clothing.
That is what he says today, what if he changes his mind a few years from now? He did say someday boobs would be cool.
That he has thought about sucide before, also saying "if I didn't have you I'd probably off myself" so I reply with... "so I'm supposed to pretend I'm a lesbian and stay super depressed (because I lost my fucking husband!) for the rest of my life so you don't kill yourself?!" Come on... that's a pretty shitty thing to do to someone.
True - he's putting all his woe or happiness upon your actions with an impossible choice. Because no one really wants to see someone end their life you're supposed to 'take one for the team' while he indulges himself? He get permission to explore, all other answers can be used against you as a guilt trip?
If you felt this way for 40years then that day you put a ring on my finger is a day too late to have shared this information
This is something many of us here have said or wished.
how they hell does a 35yr old female find friends?
I would suggest something hobby based. No matter what you're into there's some sort of club for it, even if it's an online group. Books, movies, crafts, gardening, bird watching, and on it goes. Anything that gets you interacting with others with a shared interest is good.
“The future is unwritten.”
― Joe Strummer
- OutofHisCloset
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Re: Waiting for more, very upset
Upset,
Yeah, the "how far will he go?" question--this is the one that keeps us off balance. On the one hand, they say what they would like "ideally" (my husband said the same as yours; he'd like to take hormones to get breasts), and on the other, they stop way short and say they're fine with where they are....until they're not. So everything is contingent, because if we don't know if or when they'll change their minds about what's enough, we can't ever rest easy. My experience and what I've read from others is that today's position is merely a stop on the trans train. My husband said, Ok, I'm an autogynephile (a man who is turned on sexually by the idea of himself as a woman), so because this is primarily a sexual thing I'm ok expressing in the bedroom only. Then it was wearing women's clothing in the morning on the couch, and his new claim was that of course sexual expression had a lot to do with identity, and so this new practice merely acknowledged that.
Most worrying in what you've said is his suicide threat. Not because he may do it, but because he's trading on the guilt you'd feel if he kills himself, and that, my dear, is emotional blackmail. He's essentially telling you "if I kill myself it'll be your fault," and "when I'm dead you'll be the guilty one." But as someone whose father killed himself I'm here to call bullsh-t on that one, to tell you that everyone who knows the person who kills himself feels a degree guilt, and it doesn't matter who they are and what they did or knew, whether family who stood by him and hung in and tried to get help or friends who knew less. So whether or not you stay you'd feel guilt anyway. The fact is that if he kills himself the only guilty party will be him. Others don't "cause" suicide, and they can't prevent a person who really wants to kill himself from doing it; it's the person who kills himself who is responsible. However, if he's bad off enough in a male body/man's life that he wants to kill himself over it, then it's even more unlikely he's going back.
You're 35; you're young. Do you want to live the rest of your life hostage to his trans issues, have your life defined by them? Sure, you can learn to accommodate yourself to it, even find communities of other wives who have done so. But at what cost?
Is that what you want? And if not, stop letting him enlist you in thinking about what he needs, and start thinking about yourself and your own needs. That was the best piece of advice I got here: It's not only okay to think about your needs, it's necessary.
- UpsetJT
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Re: Waiting for more, very upset
Daryl and Outofhiscloset
THANK YOU BOTH!
ALL OF YOU!
This is great, thanks for breaking my rant down. This is so hard.
I have to choose the "best thing" but to be truly happy... I know that no matter what my -happiness is over. I'm not "giving up" I'm just going to have to choose which solution makes me the lease depressed. Staying feels bad and leaving feels worse. I love this man.... I just don't love what he's doing. He's always been "sensitive" and most women say they like sensitive men-I love that most about him. He also has OCD (not the over washing of hands)he picks something and then obsessively gets "into it." Compulsis! I've watched him do this over several things. For example, he got into running. He bought every pair of running shoes, tons of running shorts. Running magazines he got into sports drinks and supplements. And so on...
Then it dies off and he gets into another "topic" obsessively. He got into the "goth" scene too. He also started to "collect" vintage toys... then it dies off and the next thing starts up.
So I get really confused and actually hopeful that this will pass, like all the other obsessions. Most of what he says isn't true, like the beginning of our relationship... (BTW, we are in councling if I haven't said before) He said "you helped me crossdress before" this is true sort of but here's what really happened-- I was practicing our Halloween zombie makeup and he was bored and tried on lipstick and kissed my cheek. We laughed...I looked at his long eye lashes and he let me put on mascara (holy cow those are long!)... we laughed and took a pic of ourselves... 10years ago this happened... ONE TIME! Now he says "I used to dress in drag all the time" this isn't true it happened once. It's like he's bringing up some false memories. We have been in therapy about some other claims he has made that are not true.
I know what you are thinking "now this chic is in denial!" lol
Na, I'm just getting my situation out.
I am wondering tho... this could slowly fade off like all the other things he has done. Possible, yes, I'm not relying on it tho. I guess "one day at a time" is all I can do.
Yeah at 35...Before I used to have many many friends... some died, some became alcoholics, most moved out of state. A friend over the phone is ok, but it's not the same as a buddy who's right here with ya. I never thought that at age 35 I would have virtually zero friends. Feel like a loser.
My husband is my bestie but now he's off being someone else...
yeah I have a hobby but the people in it are not exactly people who I want to befriend. If I "moved on" I'd hate to try and date again. The thought makes my stomach hurt. I don't want to find anyone else. Yet I don't want to be alone!
Ugh
I'm picking my self up. I'll get through this! Right?! Yeah
-end ramble 😋😉
I would like to post next something he wrote and shared with me....
- •
Thread Starter- UpsetJT
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Re: Waiting for more, very upset
He sent me this:
Everything you need to know and expect about me:
- I prize certain qualities considered by many to be feminine. In my heart, woman is sacred and man is an extension of woman.
- The modern idea of masculinity is a falsehood born of the Judaeo Christian programming of thousands of years.
- I don't want to become a woman though I do not see being a man as any different from being a woman with the one exception of our reproductive organs: man exists to perpetuate the species and woman is the original sex as attested to by science. Though our social experiences seem to uphold our false assumptions of gender, it is due to the mindless, generalized acceptance of outdated patriarchal notions rooted in Judaeo Christian thought.
- Our biological sex does not determine our gender.
- Gender is a construct. It is mutable, and it is subject to change with each passing decade and, from one culture to the next, it is observable that gender norms in the west are not the gender norms elsewhere.
- Love, compassion, selflessness, nurturance, beauty, joy and pleasure are the things that I prize most in this life, things that have been mostly considered the domain of the feminine in the Christian West. By identifying myself with such qualities I, as a man, enter into polarized opposition with our broken society's standards of masculinity. By doing so I am “othered” and so opt to align myself with the adversarial archetype of the anti-tyrannical Satan. According to many, I am not a “real man” because I didn't serve in the military, because I am not sexually aggressive, and because I prefer clothing, jewelry, creativity, and family more than sports, beer and T&A.
- I am comfortable with my sexual role as a male. I have often said that the best part of being a man is that I get to join physically with woman. There aren't many other reasons I would choose to be a male in this society other than for the privilege that comes with it.
- The western notion of masculinity is harmful to our boys and to society as a whole. Our boys need as much to play with dolls and emulate healthy, nurturing family roles as much as they need to learn the value of being prepared for conflict. We need to approach gender dialectically and avoid the hard blue and pink polarity. We need to make it safe for our boys to express emotion without ridicule and we need to make it okay for our girls to be strong leaders in critical positions of power.
- I wear pink for two reasons: 1.) It has come to represent femininity in the west, but western notions of what is feminine are false and rooted in bronze age misogyny. By wearing pink I reject the notions of both femininity as passive and demure and the idea of masculinity as aggressive and domineering and reclaim and unite the estranged halves of my divided self. 2.) It is a color long associated with love, the most important force in the world, and one that has been associated with femininity in the west. Because of love's association with the feminine, and because of systemic misogyny, love has been marginalized in much the same way as woman. We need to make it okay for men to give and receive love and to prize it above false masculine associations like anger, dominance and violence. We need to prioritize love and compassion over conflict and conquest.
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Thread Starter- Kel
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Re: Waiting for more, very upset
JT,
Welcome aboard. Sorry you find yourself with the need to be here, but you're in the right place. We do have several current members dealing with very similar circumstances as you, and you should feel some kinship with them. Others are straights who have spouses in various stages of homosexuality. Some of their spouses completely deny being gay while exhibiting evidence otherwise. Some of them recognize there's an issue but refuse to see why they can't remain married to their straight spouse. And others (like me) have ex's who are out, and we've moved on and are happy again. I remain here not for the therapy it provides me (and it still does) so much as to show others that yes - you can be happy, you can find love again, and you can be healed and whole.
I've read all the above posts, and I have several thoughts. The first and foremost is that your husband is trying to get you to think like him - but ONLY so that he can do what he wants without consequence within your marriage. The letter above from him that you posted shows me this more than anything. He says a lot of contradictory things in this letter. He says that he thinks that being a male and female are the same with the exception of reproductive organs. But he paints his nails and dresses as a female. He says the stereotypes for gender are from programming, but then uses those exact stereotypes when trying to feel like a female. It's almost like he's trying to declare that the system is flawed, and therefore shouldn't be adhered to. But then he buys right back into the system as-in when defining a female. If male and female aren't all that different except for reproductive organs, then it would stand to reason that he wouldn't need to put on women's clothing or paint his nails in order to embrace the female identifier. Instead, he would do as many sensitive males today do and just buck the system when it comes to the emotions and roles he can exhibit, thinking of all emotions and actions as allowable. So that whole "bronze age misogyny" thing is a bunch of bullshit, in my mind. If he wants to reject false masculine associations like anger, dominance and violence, then fine - I'm sure you don't have any issue with that. If he wants to prioritize love and compassion over conflict and conquest, then great. He doesn't have to paint his nails to do that. It's all just a bunch of words to try to convince you that he doesn't think like the typical man, so you shouldn't expect to see a typical man. Fine, fine, fine. Whatever. He says the rules don't apply so anything you see from this point forward shouldn't match any rules or constraints. He just declared that whatever he does is allowable and normal - because he has declared it as such (through his belief system). That would have been FINE if he'd told you this before you'd gotten married, but he didn't. You can't just declare that you don't define yourself as a human and then start acting like a dog and have your spouse be fine with it because you've declared it as your new mindset.
Him telling you that you've "helped him cross-dress before" and then citing a Halloween experience as an example is just ludicrous. He knows that, so he's trying to implant false memories. This is known as "gaslighting". Look it up. It's a form of mental manipulation. He's hoping that your self-confidence is low enough that you'll trust him over your own memories. That's pretty insulting, unless you're an individual with Alzheimers.
Personally, I don't think there's any way to "fix" this. He's on his own journey and he WILL complete it - no matter how long it takes or how slowly he has to go to not throw up warning flags. He'll try to convince you in the meantime that there's no reason to be alarmed. Because he supposedly still wants you. Well la-ti-da; what about YOU? What if you don't want HIM if he's like this? Oh wait - he'll likely accuse you of not loving the true him, or being true to your vows, or caring for him during his difficult journey. It's like the ultimate betrayal - telling you that he "needs" something - that this is who he REALLY is - and if you don't support it, then you don't love him. That's bullshit. Everyone knows that you can love someone to death and decide that they're not good for you. If you loved a man and then found out he had pedophile tendencies, would you have to support that "need", and keep him around your children to prove it? No. I'm not trying to liken cross-dressing with pedophilia in reality. But let's be honest - the only people either issue can be compatible with is someone for whom there is no one to hurt. In your scenario, YOU are the one getting hurt. It's toxic unless you subscribe to his belief system. And you don't even have to examine if you do - the way you feel is proof enough that you don't. And you're not "wrong" if you don't. It's an incompatibility. Let him go find someone with whom his belief system is compatible - because it sure as hell ain't you.
His threat of suicide is also a form of manipulation. You need to see it as such. He KNOWS that what he's doing isn't acceptable. So he has to try to control the situation so that it's seen as such. That's not honest, kind or caring.
Get away from this man. The longer you stay, the longer you will extend the pain. Let him go be him - you're not trying to stop him. You're simply saying that you're not cool with it. And you have EVERY.RIGHT to feel that way. it's how 99.9% of the population feels. Don't let him try to trick you into thinking otherwise. Own your feelings, speak your mind, don't let him try to convince you that it's YOU that's crazy. It's not, hon. It's not. You CAN love someone and wish them well and decide that they're not for you. I did it - people do it all the time. And we don't later look back and regret it. We regret having not jumped out of the frying pan earlier is all. And then when we get into a healthy relationship, we can't believe we ever tolerated such bullshit (my word of the day is apparently bullshit. Lol).
I wish you well -
Kel
Last edited by Kel (December 5, 2016 12:49 pm)
You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.