So, at 58 I'm starting over.

About us.  Me: cis-pan-male.  He/him.  58 years old.  Work in engineering.  Her: genderqueer AFAB now identifying as lesbian. She/them.  51 years old.  Entrepreneur. Both of us consider ourselves intelligent, experienced and motivated.  We were me-45 she-38 when we met. 

The players - All names changed of course.

Will - me
Mary - my recently separated wife
Carol - my first wife
Andrea - my wife's new partner

My current legal wife and I were a couple for 13 years.  July 2012 to August 2025.

We met at a UU church in 2011 while I was married to another woman, Carol.  Mary was single at that time.  She mentioned in the first 5 minutes that she was a lesbian.  She did not mention that she had almost no experience actually being with women.  

Mary grew up in a very conservative religion.  She was taught that she must be submissive to men and she tried but railed against it.  Her first marriage was to a poor man who is kind and decent and not nearly as intelligent as Mary, and they had 2 children.  She struggled with the family and church's expectations and could not be submissive to him.  At one point she took some college courses and in the course of that her world view changed and she lost her faith.  She divorced 1st hubs and went on a tear of awakening and learning and rebellion against everything she'd been taught.  Her last boss in corporate said "Your entire life is one long term act of rebellion", and we all agreed that that's true.  That has manifested in her involvement in the kink scene and LGBTQ issues and even her business.

My first wife Carol had gotten us into swinging and we were experienced in that world.  Mary was clearly interested in Carol, who is very out as bisexual, and the feeling was mutual.  When Mary got to know us she let us know that she was involved in BDSM. So when Mary invited us to join her at a kink event we were game.  I suspected and hoped that a sexual relationship might develop.

We had a great eye opening experience at the event.  As the night ended we retired to our shared hotel room, Mary in one bed and Carol and I in the other.  Carol was very turned on and the tension was palpable.  Carol and I started messing around and being the instigator that I am I said something like "Ok Mary, are you gonna come over here and help me curl this woman's toes or what?"

So the light was turned on and we had a lovely 3some.  I respected that Mary was gay and did not touch her.  I thought she and I would both pay attention to Carol, as happens in most MFM 3somes when the 2 men are not bi.  About an hour into our session she said to me "Why aren't you touching me?".  I replied "because you said you are a lesbian, and I'm a man.  I assumed you didn't want me to touch you".  She said "You know that I have kids".  I said "Lots of lesbians have kids Mary, that doesn't mean they want to be with a man now".  So she encouraged me to touch her and we had a jolly time.

We wound up in a polyamorous triad, which lasted about a year.  We lived together at Mary's place and left our house to our nearly grown son and his GF and new baby.

Side note:  My first wife Carol had a textbook case of Borderline Personality Disorder.  We were together for 25 years and it was 23 years too long.  Life with a BP (Borderline person) is 10% heaven, 80% normal, and 10% hell on earth.  She was ridiculously high maintenance, and I spent most of my time tiptoeing around trying not to set her off.

I had often thought of divorcing Carol.  Life with a BP is exceedingly difficult.  I had spent years telling myself "Ok, she's crazy and mean, but if I divorce her she'll get custody.  I am not leaving her alone with my kids".  In spring of 2012 our younger child moved out and we no longer needed to provide a home for him and his young family.

Being with Mary was a revelation for me.  She really cared about me, all the time.  She never said or did things to hurt me, which Carol did very regularly.  She seemed stable.  From being with Mary I learned that there was nothing wrong with me and that I was worthy of being loved without regular pain and misery.  Because of this I fell hopelessly in love with her and over the years that relationship became very one sided and very codependent.  I do love her still.

One symptom of Carol's Borderline Personality Disorder is that the BP sees everything as a competition that they always have to win. About a year into our triad relationship Carol saw how much I cared for Mary and gave me an ultimatum.  We would move back to our house and not see Mary any more and work on our marriage.  I told her that I said I loved Mary and I meant it.  I was willing to move back to our house and to work on our marriage but I would not stop seeing Mary.  Carol said that was a deal breaker and I said "Ok, I guess our deal is broken".  Carol moved out and I continued my relationship with Mary, now as a kinky polyamorous couple.  We did a dissolution and Carol found someone else and I wish her well.  We are no contact, and our kids both went no contact with her as well because of her rotten behavior, which is sad.

Mary and I have had a great relationship in every way except for our sex life. I initiated sex every single time.  She would be mildly enthusiastic about once a month when she was ovulating and the hormones kicked in, but mostly she didn't seem that interested. Not feeling wanted was very difficult for me and I struggled.  I developed erectile disfunction that meds helped a little and I just generally never felt good enough.  To the last day I never stopped hoping and trying to make things between us better.

My love language to give love is acts of service and I gave her those.  When we first met she was astonished to be cared for so well.  The first time I made breakfast for us I carved a sea turtle from an avocado and she was so thrilled she shared a photo on Facebook.  Some time later she stopped doing that because so many people were asking if I had a brother, which I took as a compliment.  All our friends remarked on how I spoiled her.  Her love language to receive was service as well and she loved the attention and loving care and she valued that and she valued me.  I take great pride in being a very, very good partner and that has always been important to me.

My love language to receive is physical touch and especially sexual intimacy.  I need to feel wanted and valued and chosen.  I need to feel desired and accepted.  I'm generally a very generous lover and my partner's satisfaction is much more important to me than mine, so ladies always come first, and hopefully several times.  What I desire is that just once in a while, and by that I mean a few times a year, I'm taken care of in a similar way.  I crave for the person I love to love me in the way that I love them and to me that means just give me kisses and put in a ponytail and slide down and give me oral to completion.  My first wife would do this occasionally when she was on the up side of her mood swings and that was heavenly for me and probably part of why I stayed with her 23 years too long.  I do not believe that this is an unreasonable desire.  I told Mary "Honey, if I knew of something that you valued and enjoyed that much I'd give it to you every day and twice on sunday".  She accused me of trying to manipulate her with a guilt trip, and in my frustration that's probably exactly what I was doing.

I did all the housework.  She pretty much refused to get on the back of my motorcycle.  Basically she abhorred doing anything that might be described as "Womanly" or "Wifely".  I got that blowjob I craved about 3 times in 13 years.  I spent the entirety of our marriage trying to be good enough to deserve and receive what I needed, and yes, I am now aware of how unhealthy that was.

Touch and sex are not Mary's love language, and as a childhood abuse survivor who grew up in a very conservative religion she tended to be avoidant of doing anything in service to a man.  She is pretty clear that she has a hatred for men and loathes just about every man until she gets to know them well, and it is basically impossible for a man to earn her trust. Based on her experiences she believes that any man would rape a 9 year old girl if he knew he could get away with it.  In all the years we were together I was never able to earn her trust until my daughter asked me to sit with her girls 4 and 5 while she had to be gone for a while.  That finally did it, when I was vouched for by a woman who knows me very very well.

Mary worked in the corporate world and hated it.  In 2015 she was sent to do something that she really did not want to do.  She did it, and she did it as kindly as it could be done and I'm still proud of her for that, but it scarred her.  She declared that she needed to quit the corporate world and either walk across the US or start her own business doing something she cared about.

We did the math and found that I could pay the bills and contribute a little to the business so she quit her job and started her business.  In the 9 years since I have provided endless support in time, effort and money.  At this point her business is doing reasonably well and she's drawing a reasonable salary.  I'm still paying a lot of our shared bills.  I am not listed as a legal owner of the business.

Mary always said she was "Sexually attracted to women but romantically attracted to men", and I think she really thought that was true.  The real truth is that she just hadn't met the right woman yet.  The truth is that she's a lesbian who is incapable of doing maintenance or dealing with a needy partner, so she needed somebody straightforward and not needy and free of drama, and to her that has always meant a man.  She is capable of sex with a man but it's generally not something she desires or prefers.

Also - she and I have always played in the kink world where she plays as a hard top and dominant.  She considers herself naturally dominant and always wished I was a sub.  I tried a few times and it does not fit me.  I can enjoy going to femdom parties and playing as her sub for an evening but it's not how I want to live my life.  As I am not a bottom or submissive we never really played together except for some co-topping, which we were (are?) brilliant at since we can pretty much read each other's minds.  I play as a service top.  I have no interest in domination, but if you want to play I'm quite skilled in several disciplines and can give you the experience you desire, which as a caretaker I enjoy very much.  Mary and I are noteworthy respected players in the local kink scene.  

She and I have always been staunch activists for the LGBTQ community.  For a long time we both considered our orientation to be Pansexual.  As an open couple we both had paramours come and go over the years, both men and women for both of us.  For a while we were a triad with a lovely woman that I'm still seeing, but that never really developed for Mary and she ended her relationship with that person.  The months we 3 were together were the happiest I've been in my life.

Mary was hurt and frustrated that most lesbian women would not be interested in her.  Her relationship with a man was a deal breaker, as most gay women believe that a bisexual or pansexual woman will always choose to put the man first.  One woman said "I'm not here to be somebody's experiment".

I have always loved her and supported her in her growth in whatever form that might take.  As the years went by she just started to look and act more and more like a stereotypical lesbian.  The haircut, the clothes, all the usual earmarks.  She loved to wear her T shirt printed "100% queer human".  As time went by I began to feel that she was ashamed to be with a man.  I felt that in many cases she was embarrassed to be seen with me.  Our entire relationship she would say Partner and not Husband or Wife.  Her last boss in corporate misunderstood my name and assumed I was a woman.

Last year she met a woman who is very much like me in many ways.  But she's 25 years younger, and she has a uterus, and she's a bottom/sub in the kink world.  We've had a tumultuous year.  I knew long before she did that if she had the choice she would choose Andrea over me.  That could not happen for most of the past year because Andrea was coupled and would not leave her person.  When Andrea decided to leave her partner we both knew what would come next.

This is an Email where I forwarded the first draft of something I wrote when our split was official to share with our friends on Facebook.  She edited it way down to make herself not look bad, but this is my version of the truth about what has happened here.

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Mary & Andrea,

I have written this for us to jointly share on the socials and bring everybody up to date.  I wrote it in 3rd person so it doesn't sound like it's coming from just me or just Mary.

Let's collaborate on this and come up with something that works.  I'll forward a copy of this by FB messenger to both of you.  This affects Andrea too so she gets a voice. 

Please review and advise:

Will and Mary's state of the (dis)union address

Friends, it is time for us to share some information about a change in our relationship that's been a long time coming.

When we became more than friends in the summer of 2012 we agreed to have a very non traditional relationship style.  We had both been in past relationships that were unhealthy and stifling.  We both felt that as much as we cared for each other we wanted safeguards to guarantee the freedom we both wished to maintain.

When we were handfasted and married in 2018 we expressed this with vows that were very unusual.  We agreed that we would be a couple as long as that made sense.  We agreed that a healthy relationship will have a beginning and a middle and sometimes an end, and that an end does not necessarily mean the relationship failed.  Our founding principle has been that we do not push each other around or put each other in boxes.  We have enjoyed 13 years of a collaborative life where we supported each other but always maintained our freedom to do what we wanted or needed to do.  Part of this has been our polyamorous open lifestyle.  We have both been free to spend time with other people and we have both done so and enjoyed our other special friends greatly.

In summer of 2024 Mary met a woman that she connected with in a powerful way.  The woman felt the same and their bond is breathtaking.  When they are near each other the energy is palpable.

Will and Mary have struggled to hold their relationship together for the past year but the time has come to take the path that Will foresaw long ago.  Mary and her person need to be together as primary nesting partners.  To enable this to happen, Will and Mary have severed their romantic relationship.  Mary has rented a dwelling nearby and begun living there and her new person will relocate in the next several weeks.

Will is living alone at this time at the house in Springfield.  Will is still seeing his other partner regularly but has no plans to do the obvious rebound thing and ask anyone else to move in at this time.  At the age of 58 Will has never really lived alone so he will take some time and learn to do that.  Will is a hopeless caretaker and he is finding having nobody to care for challenging but freeing.  Much learning and growth is happening.  As a truly poly person Will feels great compersion and is sincerely happy for Mary and her new person.  They are bonded in a very special way and Will honors that and plans to help them settle in, and he truly does wish them the best.

Will and Mary have ended the romantic relationship amicably but remain the best of friends and remain partnered in business and in family life.  We have spent 13 years loving each other and loving each other's families and loving all of our shared friends and that will not stop.  We have spent a decade building a business and we both play a role in making that happen and that also will not stop.

Will and Mary are still legally married and at this time there is no real reason for that to change.  We file taxes separately and there are a lot of advantages to remaining legally partnered.  If in the future there is some reason to end the marriage we will do that with an amicable dissolution or divorce.

We want everyone to understand that while this is a huge change we are Ok and we will all be fine.  We want there to be no awkwardness.  If you see us please say Hi.  So many times when a couple ends a relationship their friends feel that they have to "pick a side".  Please do not do this.  Mary will not be unhappy if you support Will, and Will very much hopes you will continue to support Mary.

The reason we can be mature about this is that there was never any ill intent.  There is no bad guy here.  What happened when Mary and her new partner met was like getting hit by a bus that was picked up and thrown by a tornado.  Neither of us have seen anything like it.  They both describe not being together as physically painful.  It is time for them to be together.

Will and Mary have enjoyed a great but imperfect relationship and it is time for that to change and that's Ok.  It is a tragedy that had to happen and needs to happen and while it's challenging right now we'll all be happier and more fulfilled when it is done.  We remain friends and we will continue to love and support one another going forward.

Thank you all for your support and understanding.

W&M

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So my wife is now proudly living as an out of the closet lesbian.  She's achieved her goal of becoming a "real" member of the LGBTQ community.  Many lesbians and gay men roll their eyes at bisexual or pansexual people, believing they are actually homosexual but afraid to commit.  This stung Mary.  She is now thrilled to live as who she truly feels that she is.  Living as an out lesbian is the ultimate act of rebellion against the church she grew up in and against the parts of society that she loathes and against men in general.  She no longer has to be embarrassed about standing next to a man.

A few days ago she dropped off a few things at my house and picked up some of her things.  Andrea is relocating from out of state and they have a place rented.  Andrea was driving and pulling the rented trailer with her stuff from her home inside.  As they loaded out I watched Andrea hustling moving things around loading the trailer and Mary standing by like the queen of England and thought, "That looks familiar".

Watching these 2 women with their matching shaved sides haircuts driving away, literally in a Subaru towing a Uhaul, is absolutely the most cliche, stereotypical thing I've ever experienced.  I'm sure there's a sad country song in there somewhere but I'm too heartbroken to write it.

She and I are in very different places.  She is starting a new life living happily ever after with her soulmate.  She is 51 years old.  She is a business owner and widely known and respected in several communities.  She has a warm loved one to sleep with every night.  She has hopes and dreams and plans for a bright future.  I am a lonely 58 year old man.  I live alone in my empty house.  I have a comfortable home and a large workshop that I used to enjoy and I have work that I enjoy but there's a lot missing from my world.  I had hopes and dreams and plans for the future as well, but those were taken away and I'm left to figure out how to move on in a radically changed world.

I've come to realize that her being a lesbian explains a lot of things.  I had to initiate sex every time.  I always felt the wall when we made love.  She could not hold a kiss with me for more than 5 seconds.  I remember with my first wife Carol we would laze around for hours on a weekend morning, talking and loving and then having a snack and loving some more.  Mary never wanted to do that.  Every time we had sex her attitude was "Ok, let's get this done.  Chop chop!".  When she came home from her first weekend with Andrea and told me they made love for 6 hours I knew it was over and I literally cried.  I knew then that she loved her in a way she could never love me and our relationship was effectively over, and about a year later it was.  She's told me several times "I told you in the beginning that I was a lesbian".  My response has been "Yes, you told me that, but soon after that you said 'fuck me', so what was I to think?".

So I'm unpartnered and living alone.  I have a girlfriend who is distant enough that I can't really see her daily.  I do see her regularly but we're not nesting partners.  She values her autonomy and I don't want to hurt anybody with my rebound stupidity so we'll keep our relationship where it is at this time.  Neither of us are unhappy with our current arrangement.

I've never lived alone before.  I went from Mom & Dad's house to the Military's house to Me & Carol's house to Me & Carol & Mary's house to Me & Mary's house.  I've been deriving a lot of my identity and thoughts about who I am and what my purpose was from taking care of other people.  I used to cook a 3 course dinner just most nights, but with nobody else to cook for I usually just make a sandwich nowadays.  Just taking care of myself feels like masturbation, pointless and stupid.

I've been struggling with a lot of rage.  I feel I've been cast aside like a used condom or something.  Thrown away like I had no value at all.  I have 2 major triggers and rejection is 3 of them and I'm feeling that to my soul.  I'm really hurting, and there's nobody to blame.  I wish I could hate Andrea and Mary for what has happened here but that's not fair.  At no point did anybody here make a choice to hurt anybody.  When they met it was like a lightning bolt.  Mary and I were polyamorous and at first I thought Mary would have another paramour and good for them.  I supported that.  And I like Andrea, she's an awesome human.  At this point I feel like Andrea is avoiding me and that tracks.  She took my wife.  If I were her I wouldn't want to be around me either.

As a poly partner I have always chosen love and always chosen to share.  But I did not choose to be replaced and I'm heartbroken about it.  I did nothing wrong and somehow I've lost my partner and my plans for the future and a huge chunk of my life, and it's nobody's fault.  Frustrating.

My future plans are to continue doing as I do.  Like every newly single man I'm trying to work on diet and exercise and trying to live my best life.  I've given up any ideas about rekindling things with Mary should she decide to be poly again. At this point if she wanted to come back I don't think I'd welcome her.  I feel stupid for spending 13 years of my life carving avocado sea turtles for someone that told me on day 4 that she hated men.  Mary and I are still in regular contact and cordial as we have a lot of business connections and our lives are hopelessly entangled, but we are not much more than friends, and there's a lot of resentment on my part but we'll manage.  

I am lost but I'll find my way.  Thx for reading,

G

Last edited by Gillinator (October 26, 2025 3:21 pm)