In terms of bisexual-heterosexual relationships, a lot depends on the level to which the bisexual partner has heterosexual desire. If all things are equal then the feelings described in the last paragraph are more like those experienced by homosexuals in a heterosexual relationship. That resentment, depression, fear and guilt are indicative of a stronger, if not overriding homosexual need that cannot be satisfied. Someone identifying as bisexual is only this when they are not involved in a homosexual relationship. Unless a person only desires and enjoys sex with both gay and straight people simultaneously. Then they are in fact prone to swinging both ways. They can be passively bisexual, but actively either straight or gay depending on the situation. This is less of an issue if they are in a relationship with someone else who is also bisexual. For a straight partner, it really depends again on how strong the homosexual attraction of their partner is. If it is sufficiently strong enough to cause the issues noted. Then the chances are too strong to simply ignore or suppress.

Dutchman wrote:

To me, your relections sound not that sensible. As if all can be described and predicted by some well defined measure of "sexual orientation". 
You're attempting to control something that is so much more complex and intricate than models. This reductionist approach is in a sense similar to fundemental christians ideas like "pray the gay away". No way! It's not that simple and confined, it's not grasped and controled by statistiscs nor  dogma.

For example, the chances of winning the lottery can be calculated. Suppose there is a 30% chance of winning some money. But does this apply if I don't even buy a ticket? Obiously not, my chance of winning a price would be zero. So, It's not just a matter of chance, but it depends on the choices of people involved.

If people are inclined to follow contemporary cultural scripts, have no independent strong conviction or view on marriage, they will obviously be inclined to choose a path that submits to realizing their sexual preferences. No rocket science needed to deduce that. The same goes for straight spouses who think it's expected from them to follow these paths. 

So what is it really that determines the outcome of a marriage when there is a sexual preference mismatch? It's not statistics nor lists, it's rather  about:
Communication
Openness and honesty.
The meaning of real Love (with the capital, not hollywood style).

For the gay spouse: it means letting loose of the idol that sexual preference can be. In essence, it's setting priority: not sexual preference at the top, but set it somewhere down the line where it belongs. Because Love is the top, with your spouse at the focus. That kind of love holds beauty and value. So also no denial about sexual preference... it's there, among other things. (and... being accepted and acknowledged in that).

For the straight spouse you're challenged to total acceptance.
That certainly doesn't mean accepting any behaviour! But accepting your spouse as she/he is, with all that is. This too is Love with a capital L. 

When both meet eachother in this way, a succesful MOM will happen and evolve. It will take effort and hardship, it's not just chance or flipping a coin.

Is this extensive lesson on what real Love is for my benefit at all? 

Would you find easier if I were to go back and edit my post to include a passionate adherence to, and belief in the works of Alfred Kinsey and Wardell Pomeroy?  The monkey and banana analogy interests me. Are you saying that your wife’s capacity to deny herself allows you both to concentrate on a mutually agreed greater good? That the monkey wanted the banana so much, that it didn’t, or couldn’t let it go. The monkey denied itself the banana. Because you also state later that there should not be denial of the other’s being. Which in of itself is a contradiction.
It could be that this contradiction is causing a subconscious internal conflict in yourself. You love your wife dearly and want her to be happy. But knowing that for this to be, she must deny a part of herself. Much like myself, it is a juxtaposition that is very hard to rationalise internally.

In answer to your questions (accepting your use of parenthesis for emphasis).

I have sought answers to questions from those who have lived with and have suffered in situations similar to mine. Situations that no amount of training and qualification could have prepared me for. The statement attributed to me regarding the fact that ‘relations shouldn’t need any effort’, certainly sounds like something I may say, or have written. The context in which they were uttered or written in needs to be understood to allow the meaning to be clear.

I have lived in an actual Mixed Orientation Relationship for thirty five years. This is due to the fact that I am unfortunately heterosexual and heteroromantic in relation to someone who is not. This relationship is also complicated by the fact that my wife is now diagnosed with having Autism Spectrum Disorder. Something that we have long suspected. This means that I am also in an ND relationship, the two of which are complicated further by my wife’s belief that she is now non-binary. I choose to take exception to allegations that my version of love is not as valid as yours. That somehow, your version is the only version that there should be because you have reached some unobtainable nirvana of understanding. I understand more than most what it means to not blame someone for the awful things they say. The terrible things they do to you, and yet still care. Care that in spite of things, it is not their fault. That they have their daily challenges that I try to support them through. I stay, when everyone screams leave. I stay for the love I have for my son. I stay because he is also ASD and needs a sense of permanence in order to function. Due in part to the neurodiversity of my wife, she would rather die than come out. I respect this because I care for her welfare. I don’t want sympathy, or violins. My choice, my situation, my response to it. We all do what we think is the best in the end. Even if that means that we put ourselves and our needs third.

Ordinary_guy,

I didn't invalidate your love for your wife, it's rather comparable to my own love for my wife. The problem of it in the MOM situation, is it mangles your being and feelings to bits over the years. It's like running into a brick wall, again and again and again. And it doesn't even make a dent in the wall. For me straight, I decided for total resolute acceptance, letting go of the consequences it had to me. This lifted me above the situation and the hurt. It's a strong decision, it's a choice from the heart, and my feelings followed it. The hurt deminished that resulted from being in a relation that isn't reciprocated the way it should be. I don't think it's unabtainable, but it's hard to make that decision.  I had to hit rock bottom in my despair, before I was able to fully make that choice. I don't know if it's the only way, but I do know that going on like I had been going, hitting the wall, would have destroyed me, at the same time, it wouldn't have changed or improved anything in our relation nor for my wife.
As far as I can see, the only alternative would have been divorce. Like you I didn't want to do that. so, it's a dark dead end alley, the doors are locked and the surrounding walls are not giving in. The only way out is climbing up, at least there is sunlight and fresh air.


However the love that is really and actually wanting, is not yours, but your wifes. Assuming she's not an evil narcissist, her level of love for you is like good friendship. Well, if she's lesbian that makes sense, you're simply of the wrong gender to invoke other feelings and another kind of love in her. For her too it's a brick wall. Maybe with the difference she doesn't crash into it like you do, I think she's probably somewhat aware of it, but doesn't truly understand how it feels for you on the other side of this wall. 

At that stage my wife thought our marriage was good enough, our relation was friendly and sort of sustainable. We kept sexual intimacy going, I had my libido, my wife knew and accepted I needed that aspect. But it felt mechanical to me, I had to avoid being too much aware of that. For if I was aware, it felt  like unspoken rejection. That total acceptance I started this post with, removed the negative feelings, makeing love became more relaxed and joyful, for my wife too. It was still lacking the deeper emotional connection, but physically it was pleasurable.

The wall was still up, the door locked. I had no access to her inner feeling in that romantical/sexual being, and for the same reason she could not go out to me in that way. This blockade of her was made of "My sexual preference is towards women, it's who I am" and "if I let loose of that, who am I than?" In other words: It's part of her identity, and high on the priority scale. Maybe not at the absolute top priority of her identity (ie. not like she was rainbow, pride, LGBT community etc). But nevertheless it held a higher priority than her love for me.

Of course sexual orientation is something that is experienced every day, it's an integral part of someone. So that it's seen and experienced as a part of the identty is understandable. However, it's rather odd that it should be at the top priority, there is no unavoidable necessity for that. There could be very good and healthy reasons to set the priority down. One of these reasons could be marriage with a person of the opposite sex that you love.
Love for the spouse should most certainly be the main ingredient of marriage. The importance of that, could rightfully be considered as very high priority. There's no law that prohibits that, it's a choice made from free will. Just like the whole concept of marriage is built arround that, marrying one person excluding all others, is a choice (and promise) made from free will.

In essence this, when my wife realised this, formed the turning point in our marriage. When her eyes were opened for the fact she had been setting the priority of her sexual preference above the priority of the love she should give her husband, the walls came crubbling down, the emotional door to me opened up. There is no doubt whatsoever about this, I immediatly felt the difference, it was like day and night. For her as well, as she started experiencing makeing love with me as natural and fulfilling, not just physically but emotionally as well.
To be clear, she is still lesbian, so she didn't "heal", "became straight" or something like that, she even did't became bi-sexual. The best way to describe it is setting the priority of me (her husband, her love) above her sexual preference. This is something from the heart, the will, conviction that's most true and right in accordance with love. Feelings follow and confirm that, like an inner proof. It's not in the Kinsey scale, if you must put a label on it, it would be "gay+1".  Although we don't like labels in general, we think it's the most fitting.

It's not that easy to describe, but I hope it's sufficiently clear to understand what I try to convey. If so, you also see this doesn't lead to denying oneself or suffering by missing out. That is: not more burden than everybody has to deal with. Because it's obiously true that choosing someone, by definition excludes all other options. If that's considered too hard, no-one should mary. 
The joy of loving and being loved by that special person in life, should be more than enough compensation. So, we don't feel guilty for being that person to each other. She's the right woman for me and I'm the right man for her.

Now, I have to explain the "monkey with the banana in a jar" a bit better I think.
With that comparrison she means that setting her sexual preference high in the priority list was like a trap for her:
She didn't want to set the priority of her sexual preference (the banana) down, because she was afraid that would leave her floating not knowing who she is. The fallcacy was she connected it to decisive importance of her identity, essential for being her self. 
However, precisely this prevented her emotional connection to open up to me. She couldn't open that door as long as she held her sexual preference as all important aspect of her being. So she was trapped. 
The only thing she could do to was loosening her grip on the banana, so she subsequently could pull her hand of the jar and move freely.
Only then she could move towards connecting to me emotionally/sexually. 
What happened to the banana?  Well, she has no problem being attracted to women. She has no problem at all to live with that notion. It's just a part (among others) of her identity, it's part of who she is en how she experiences the world arround her. She is open about that aspect of her if someone would ask, she's not in any closet. 

About how contempory culture handles sexual orientation.
It's not hard to see our culture is setting sexuality and sexual orientation as the most primary aspect of being. Especially when homosexuality is concerned, it's very extra loud and clear about that. I don't think anyone can avoid being influenced by it, it finds it's way into the thoughts and minds of everyone.
I have no problem with same sex relations, but the narrative of culture is decremental for people in a MOM. It's actually totally opposite of what we had to work towards. We had to free ourselves from the idea that sexual orientation is top priority of identity, we had to let go of the idea gay people can only be happy in a same sex relation. Being authentic is not the same as living out sexual preference, someone can be totally authentic and true to themselves in many other ways. In our experience, the narrative comming from culture is like a weed that strangles MOMs. One has to think independantly (and really authentically) to get rid of it, and that's not that easy. Many follow pre cooked scripts that sound all arround, that's much easier, and probably it feels save in the crowd.


btw. do you know my wife has one topic in the MOM section (SamanthaNL), being not-straight she's only allowed to write in that topic. So if you have specific questions you want to ask her, you'll have to post in that topic.

Dutchman.

Last edited by Dutchman (July 27, 2024 8:49 am)