Offline
Anon 765 wrote:
I agree with you both. In another post, I saw someone talking about "the secret sexual basement" and the harm that can cause to families and spouses. And this psychologist's work talked about the person having an "integrity disorder". It was super helpful to read!
In my case, none of the harm was perpetrated "deliberately". Which in some ways makes it so much harder to argue or fight back or get angry. His need to preserve himself, his identity and his big secret was so overwhelming and strong that he just instinctively destroyed everything else in his path by relentlessly putting his own emotional comfort first.
You can’t have an integrity disorder. You either have integrity or you don’t. On the other hand, you can have an empathy disorder. In your case, it sounds like he may have had a vulnerable narcissistic personality disorder that was likely to be either psychological or neurological, or as a result of having to create a false self to hide behind. The big secret and his own sense of self had to be protected at all costs. Even easier when it comes at the emotional cost of others.
Offline
Dear Buzzybeez,
I am a transwidow. I stayed with my now ex-husband for three years after he announced his trans identity. The short answer to your questions (will the transition affect his outlook and emotions?) is yes. It will.
I am sorry your husband has pulled the rug out from under your marriage. Of course you're grieving! Your marriage and your life together and separately will never be the same. You will never have your husband back. Worse, you'll have the shadow or ghost of your husband. (There is a term for the grieving done by those of us who lose a loved one who has not died: ambiguous loss leading to unresolved grief. It was originally coined to describe the grieving of those who were relatives of those who were MIA or had been abducted and never found, but it also applies to those who are claimed by Alzheimer's. We are one more demographic who experiences "ambiguous loss." You can google it to learn more and for resources that help.)
Once they jump on the trans train, their "gender journey" becomes their entire focus. And whatever they do in service to trying to change themselves into their idea of what a woman is, and however much you support and "affirm," it will never be enough for him. Why? Because inside he knows that he will never be female. And he's right. If transwomen were really women, why would they need to trans themselves?
He may tell you that he will "still be himself," but "himself" is exactly what he doesn't want to be! We wives are often urged to stay, and told he will be "the same inside," as if the changes were merely "cosmetic." Flip that script and you'll see what a manipulative lie that is: if the outside isn't supposed to matter to us, then why is it allowed to matter to them? Indeed, it matters supremely to them, so much so that they want to change everything about themselves! They take new names and become angry if we refer to their "dead names." Some change their birth certificates in order to wipe their history as a male off the map. Ask yourself: How will he feel about seeing your wedding photos? How will he feel if you look at, or cry over, your wedding photos? If they are the same person inside and the outside is "merely cosmetic," then they should be okay with living in the body they have, as they are, and just "feeling like a woman inside." But they're not. It's only supposed to be "cosmetic" for us.
It's common for men who are in the process of making themselves over into their idea of what a woman is to become intensely self-absorbed, and to demand from us unceasing and unending support, love, and cheerleading. They rush headlong into all the changes, and if we ask them to slow down so we can adapt they consider us obstructionist. This means we are denied the opportunity to process with our spouses our grief, our doubts, and to set boundaries, because they see all these things as us being "unsupportive" or even "transphobic." After I expressed my feelings to my husband, I was told he could never forgive me for "what you did to me," as if my speaking from my heart was a physical act of violence against him. I often think of the Black activist Stokely Carmichael, who during the civil rights movement said "the only position for women in SNCC (Student NonViolent Coordinating Committee) is prone," because many would say "the only position for wives in their husband's gender journey is accepting."
We need--You need--to be able to grieve the loss of your husband without any external pressure to be "accepting" or to "celebrate" his new and to you unwanted, unnatural, unrecognizable self. You can certainly do that here. You can do that with a therapist, but at the first hint of your therapist trying to guilt you into feeling bad about your feelings, or leading you to "accept," leave and don't go back. Please put yourself first. Your husband's gender journey is not something you can do for or even with him. He has to go on that journey alone. Of course he'd prefer not to--it's easier if you're there.
But to accompany them on this "journey" is often traumatizing for us. I won't go into the intimate details, of how your sex life will change, how your spouse will want you to remake your own sense of your gender and sexuality to support his ideas about himself. I will only say that although I moved out and divorced my ex six years ago, after three years of living alongside him after his trans bomb drop, I am still processing the trauma, and not out from under it yet.
In the past I have posted a list of resources for women like us. You can use the search feature with my name to see my posts. Those resources include writing by psychologists as well as websites that are support sites specifically for us.
Last edited by OutofHisCloset (July 21, 2024 1:21 pm)
Offline
I do so hope that you find your peace OoHC. To be free from the multi-layered trauma. You have been violated on many levels by someone you so trusted to never do such a thing. Your honest and heartfelt appraisal and advice carries so much more weight and truth than mine ever can.
Offline
I'm terrified and scared. I want to honor and respect my husband bc I want to support his need to feel happy as who he feels inside. Yet I need to protect myself and our son from spiraling into a self directed need for affirmation. Things are not bad at the moment. Are there any positive outcomes bc I really want this to work?
Offline
Tyvm for sharing your experience. I'm sorry you are still dealing with the after effects. The fact that you called yourself a transwidow stood out to me. I see myself as on the way to becoming one. If their transition change them, then what is the point to staying in the relationship? Feeling discouraged and disillusioned. There is no recourse but to watch him do his thing while I try to get away. Am I ready to leave? Is it too early to?
Offline
Buzzybeez wrote:
I'm terrified and scared. I want to honor and respect my husband bc I want to support his need to feel happy as who he feels inside. Yet I need to protect myself and our son from spiraling into a self directed need for affirmation. Things are not bad at the moment. Are there any positive outcomes bc I really want this to work?
Depends on what you think positive outcomes are and what it is you want to work really? It also very much depends on what the psychological needs of the transitioning partner are. In order to keep things as simple as possible and possibly at the risk of over generalising, there are two distinct flavours they come in. One is a transgender individual who has gender dysphoria due to their phenotype sexual psychology being incongruent with their physical presentation. They feel that they have been born in the wrong body and are distressed by this fact. This is what the world, by and large understands a transgender person to be. The transition in this case is a source of relief from what has troubled them in their lives. They can now feel comfortable in their own bodies and will walk and move largely unseen and unrecognised in society. Their transition has a finite end. There is a destination following their transit to this end goal. They have usually been “different” during their childhood or adolescence. Exhibiting characteristics normally associated with the opposite gender. It is highly unlikely that they could maintain a false presentation of what was not natural to them in their lives to the point where they actively sought out and entered into a heterosexual relationship. This is on the understanding that gender presentation and sexuality are indeed different. As we all know, automatic attraction to the opposite sex is not a given. The issue here is that a heterosexual woman would recognise behaviours and traits that were not seen and felt as masculine. Also, other people would be aware of affectations and behaviours that were not generally recognised and seen from someone presenting physically as one gender. If this was the case, and there was honesty and understanding over what the situation was, could this still be a viable relationship? Yes, of course it could. The person inside of them does not change. They are literally the same as they always were, but following physical transition, are now more comfortable and at peace with their presentation.
The second group are transsexuals. They contain those who could be identified as Autogynephiles. The motivation for a transgender identity is based on their sexual, and or emotional needs. Cross dressing and role play by seemingly and frequently overtly masculine men is nothing new. It has been the case for as long as there were gender differences between men and women. They can feel either soothed, and or, sexually excited by subverting gender stereotypes by dressing and behaving in what they think and feel a woman to be. This can be an escape for those who are not confident in their masculinity, or need to distance themselves from it. There is anecdotal evidence that this propensity is linked in some way with an ASD, ADHD or ADD neuro diversification. They have a strong attraction to femininity and all things female, which is of course perfectly natural for a heterosexual man. The act of dressing and behaving in what they perceive to be female manner gives them pleasure or relief, or both. They can compartmentalise this in their own minds. Often creating and naming a female alter ego that can be their go to for sexual gratification, and or, release. The compartmentalised alter ego can often be physically separated by literally putting her in a box in a cupboard. Out of sight and out of mind. Until the mind needs, or wants her. The rest of the time he is just a regular guy. There is nothing out of the ordinary. There are often no behavioural clues to find or see. The female partner is oblivious to what is going on because, nothing is when anyone is around. They may imagine that the role reversal is real during normal sexual activity with a woman. Instances of the woman being between the man’s legs for example. Now, the important thing to understand here is that this level of ideation does not impact the relationship between the man and the women. You could argue that the man in question is having an emotional affair with himself, or more truthfully with his female alter ego. In the majority of cases the ideation fantasies are felt and understood to be just that. She goes into the box, and out of the box as, and when needed. This is transvestism at work. Not transgenderism. What can seem to happen is that eventually in time, or as a result of either stress or addiction, or a combination of factors, the use of the female alter ego becomes more and more frequent. The mind begins to feel that it is more at peace and fulfilled while being the female version of self. They begin to miss her more and more when she isn’t around. Then you get the domino effect. Rewards require more and more ideation. More and more physical presentation until the inevitable seemingly happens. The realisation that they can only feel whole and well when they are with her. They will fight for her. Fight anyone and anything that threatens her. They will do anything and everything to feel more like what they think she should feel like. This tends to mean that they will overstep the mark in their search to feel what they think a woman feels. Modern medical science provides them with the ultimate dressing up box. Through hormones and surgeries they can build her externally, the physical presentation is realised. At this point, they should have completed the transition. Everything has been done, surely now that they are in the right body, the transition is completed. Often no, it isn’t. They are striving for something that they cannot really have. Rather sadly, they are still who they always were. A man striving and fighting to feel what it is to be a woman. The best analogy I can conjure up is that of a conjurer. That the magic that everyone sees, what they think is real is the product of an illusion. That behind the curtain, sometimes very far back is the man. Like The Great Oz. Frantically pushing buttons and pulling levers to keep it all going. Frantically perpetuating the journey without end. You see, it all makes sense when you think that the never ending need to be a woman is actually being driven by a man. He cannot fully remove himself without the need for her also disappearing along with him.
He loves her, more than anything in the world. His love and devotion is unconditional. Nothing can get in the way of that. The only thing we can do is understand that to them it is real. They honestly feel that it is. All of the defensive lashing out, and demanding is justified to them. They need others to validate her at all times in order to feel the comfort and or, excitement they needed all through their lives. But, like addictions, they need more and more each time to produce the same level of feeling they once had. Wives and partners can be faced with a terrible dilemma. They honestly love their husbands. They don’t want to see them suffer or be in pain. They want to believe that a transition will not alter them, not change who they are. Most are not really equipped to deal with what eventually emerges from the box.
A very dear woman to me, who actually worked as a mental health practitioner went through this process with her husband. She is naturally a very intelligent and understanding woman who tried to rationalise what was happening and tried to help her husband find an inner peace. This is someone that you would expect to be able to manage this situation better than most. She did, for the first year. Through each stage and development she effectively held his hand and suppressed her own feelings in order to help him. Doing the right thing for the right reasons. This became a distaste for the “her” that was becoming more and more dominant. She remembers feeling a sense of disgust when the new “her” explained that it was now OK for “her” wife to identify as a lesbian because that is now who she is. This is a common issue where the transitioning partner, transitions or tries to transition others into their new reality. It was a double edged sword. On one side it reinforced their own identity as female, while also providing external validation from “her” wife. She basically broke down before year two. Then came the erasure of their shared history. The new “her” effectively blaming “her” wife for keeping him a man over the years. Rewriting histories to suit “her” narrative. Accusing any and all of being transphobic if they didn’t get on board and do, or say what “she” wanted. Their wife eventually mentally broke down and effectively kicked them out of the home. Telling them in the end that they could go elsewhere and do whatever they wanted, as she was done. Exhausted by the whole process, unable to grieve openly for someone who was very much alive and living what they now described as their best life. There is little to no professional help for the female partners in these scenarios. Almost as if they are excluded by an inclusive society. My heart breaks for them. People often wonder why there is no real female equivalent. Transgender men do obviously exist. But they do mostly tend to be phenotype masculine. It is the autoandrophile that seems so rare. The idea that a woman would gain emotional comfort or sexual gratification from dressing and behaving like a man does seem to be quite alien. Perhaps, this is due to the fact that women can openly dress and behave like men with barely a murmur.
All of the things you have read and will read, may cause you to fear what could happen. Could, should and will, are all very different and may not happen. What is important for you at this moment is, to at least acknowledge these possibilities to the extent that they don’t come as a surprise or shock to you. You matter in all of this. Your mental health and well being matter to all of us.
Offline
OOHC and Ordinaryguy,
Thank you both so much for your insightful and well-written responses. I am going through the same thing with my husband right now, who believes he is transgender and must come out to the world and begin hormones, etc (though he has done nothing yet other than meet with a therapist and tell me and a few friends). We have children and this is going to destroy our family, as I know I cannot stay with him through a gender transition.
He is suffering deeply at what this will do to his life and our family. He believes he could become suicidal if he does not transition, but the thought of losing all he has is just as bad if not worse. My question is, what would be the best path for for his own well-being? Does anyone know?
Thanks,
AL
Offline
Annalisa,
Unfortunately, finding "the best forward" has to be his exploration. Neither we, nor you, can counsel him. He is seeing a therapist, and this is a question he will need to explore with the therapist.
You should know, however, that ultimatums and threats of suicide--"I must transition or kill myself!"--are coercive, manipulative, and, more importantly, not borne out by the research, despite this being a standard trans assertion. You should certainly not let your own choices and course of action be determined by his expressed anguish. What he wants is to retain the status quo (your marriage) at the same time he transforms himself, and is unwilling to accept that he can't have both. Looking ahead to life as a transgendered person is no doubt daunting to him. His therapist's job is to help him through that process, one that he himself has initiated.
Your job, meanwhile, is to be the stable parent for your children. It will be important to them that you are a constant, because their father's actions are going to be upending them. You will of course make your own decisions about when to leave, but from my vantage point, having gone through something similar with my husband, a clean and early break will spare you the anguish and trauma of seeing your spouse transform before your eyes, and will provide a safe haven for your children. Plus it will help you detach from your role as wife. It won't be your job to help him do this, just as it isn't your role to find the "best path" for him.
Offline
Buzzybeez:
You say your husband's transition will change him...but really, hasn't he changed already? To answer your question of whether it's "too early" to leave, you will need to specify what you mean. Too early in the process? Too early to give up hope he might stop? Transition is not something you can do with him. Transition is not something you can do for him. Transition is an intensely personal and intensely felt experience for him. You can't share it. And what he tells you about it will likely shake you and probably hurt you to your core If you believe it's your role to stay and be his shock absorber, then you will stay, being his emotional caretaker while piling up hurts of your own, with no one to do the same for you.
Ending a marriage is hard. It means severing the bond that joins you, and emotionally detaching while relinquishing your earlier role as the person he turns to. It hurts like hell But the only way through hell is to keep going.
Offline
Annalisa wrote:
OOHC and Ordinaryguy,
Thank you both so much for your insightful and well-written responses. I am going through the same thing with my husband right now, who believes he is transgender and must come out to the world and begin hormones, etc (though he has done nothing yet other than meet with a therapist and tell me and a few friends). We have children and this is going to destroy our family, as I know I cannot stay with him through a gender transition.
He is suffering deeply at what this will do to his life and our family. He believes he could become suicidal if he does not transition, but the thought of losing all he has is just as bad if not worse. My question is, what would be the best path for for his own well-being? Does anyone know?
Thanks,
AL
Firstly, Hello Annalisa,
You say he believes he is transgender? He is literally a long way from transitioning. Those who transition do so because they know that is a fact and not a possibility. He sounds as though he needs a lot of specialist counselling before he can make that decision. I don’t think that even in a world of private medicine, any clinician would dare to risk starting a transition even at the anti-androgen stage if the client simply believed they were transgender. They need to know it. It isn’t the same as putting some underwear and make-up on. Actual phenotype transgender people know they are. It has plagued and shaped them in their lives. He may have been taking little vacations to ladyland in the past. It is a big step for him to move there permanently.
As OoHC has honestly stated. Threats of suicide are not uncommon from those who are in a do I, don’t I quandary. They can use this in an abusive manner to negotiate what they want. This is coercion. It is a big step to take, big in respect to their marriage and relationship with their wives. Only bigger still with children involved. It won’t necessarily destroy the family. It definitely will change it. As I have pointed out, the transition of a partner requires the transition of everyone invested in the original relationship at some point. Things will not be the same. What you have to be aware of are the effects that it will have on you and others.
The best path to follow is his to choose. With his therapist and or counsellors. These are the people he needs to speak things through with, they are the subject matter experts. You can’t make decisions about this for him. If you could, you would invariably prefer to keep things as they are. If he did this, he would eventually resent you for it. if it prevented him from being her. Have you told him that you will leave if he transitions? Or, does he simply see this as an unavoidable reality?