Well said OutofHisCloset! I agree that we can't try to recapture the past and this means that you no longer have to pretend. I remember an evening shortly after coming out where I was so mentally exhausted that I could hardly even lift my arms. I went to bed around 6 p.m. and slept right through until the following morning. I can only imagine the mental and physical exhaustion a straight spouse feels at the end of her marriage. Right now I'm sure you're feeling a bit numb because of the separation and impending divorce. But this freedom means you can now do what you want. No need to fake it anymore. It's time to enjoy your kids without him and create new traditions without him. I will be hard the first year but it does get better with time. 

Thank you for your question. I came to this forum to better understand my ex-wife's pain and suffering. At the end of our relationship, I was in such a fog of sex addiction, so unhappy, and so depressed that I couldn't think properly. Following our divorce 18 months ago, I'm now starting to understand what I put her through and it wasn't pretty. Getting to your questions... 

​You wrote: "...someone who gets married knowing he's gay and then spends years lying and cheating..." I've read similar posts on this website and I think your question is: "Why do gay men marry when they know they're gay?" The short answer is that we don't know we're gay or perhaps we don't believe ​we're gay. I'm happy to share my experience and that of my friends, but please keep in mind this isn't the experience of all gay men. I married for three reasons: first, I married because I was truly in love with my girlfriend; second, I married because I didn't want to be gay at the time; and third, I married because this is what society wanted me to do. If we had a choice, I don't think anyone would choose to be gay. It's so much easier to conform and to represent the majority...in this case heterosexuals.

​I have a question for every straight wife who (justifiably) demands their gay-in-denial ex-husbands come out of the closet. "Just tell the f*cking truth!" is a common statement on this website. My challenge to you is this: take your most painful secret and just share it with the person you most love in the world. It's harder than you think. Why do people take decades to admit child abuse? Why do whole families deny alcoholism? Why do we hide bulimia, depression, or drug addiction? Gay men continue to live in denial because we fear our friends and family will reject us if they know the whole truth. We fear the loss of love. We fear isolation and loneliness. For some, the self-hatred is simply too entrenched.  

I have gay friends of all generations. Not surprisingly, there is a trend. For gay men in their 50s and 60s, most of them married, had children, and eventually divorced. They married because at the time there was no other option. Sodomy was illegal and being openly gay meant joblessness, persecution, and (sometimes) prison. One of my best gay friends is almost 60. Even today, he feels uneasy about introducing his long-term partner to new people. "Just tell them Brian is a friend." And yet everyone knows. The fear is still there. Gay men like me in their 40s are split: half married and half are with long-term partners. Every gay man I know in his 20s or 30s is 'out and proud.' None of them will marry women because there is no longer a need to conform.

​The trend is very easy to spot: over time society's acceptance of homosexuality and gay marriage has steadily grown. The anti-sodomy laws of yore are now gone. The US Supreme Court granted full marriage equality in June 2015. Being gay is now acceptable, if not somewhat fashionable. I worry, however, that the rush of gay men charging out of the closet leaves children and straight spouses behind. Clearly children just want two parents and gay ex-husbands like me need to balance new lives and new love with the continued responsibilities of parenting and financial support.

​You asked about "avoiding being accountable for years of lying." This is true. We first lie to ourselves by believing we're not really gay. We then lie while marrying because we think this will 'cure' us in some way. As the marriage breaks down, we then lie about cheating. These lies leave scars and I'm sorry for it. In my case, I simply didn't have the courage to come out to myself, then come out to my friends/family in my teens, particularly in the face of a society that openly mocked and marginalized people like me. I played at being straight my whole life and this included marrying a kind and caring woman while hiding a terrible secret. I regret it all. 

​So what's my point? My point is we can't help lie to others because we've often spent decades lying to ourselves. Case in point: my boyfriend is in his 40s. When we met four years ago, we were both semi-closeted. I was out to my ex-wife, he was out to his friends, neither of us had come out to our parents. I'd met a number of his "safe" cousins which is to say cousins to whom my boyfriend had nervously said, "I'm gay" only to immediately swear them to secrecy. When I met these 'safe' cousins, every single one of them took me aside and said that the whole family knew he was gay, including his parents. They all knew, all supported him, and were aching for him to come out. My boyfriend finally came out to his parents and siblings last September. And just this weekend, he came out to his entire extended family. We just got off the phone and he exclaimed, "NO ONE WAS SURPRISED! They all knew I was gay." I bit my tongue.

​I'd bet that more than half of the straight spouses here have a similar 'outing' experience. What I mean is that a large number of friends and family probably suspected your ex-husbands were gay and yet said nothing. "But why didn't you say something?" is the straight spouse's next question. The reason is simple: denial is easier than the truth. Denial is like a fog. When we marry someone with secrets, like being gay, have addictions, suffered abuse etc., we plunge willingly into that fog. We hope to be the sun that will lift the fog when inevitably we just get as lost as our partners.

My ex-wife was bulimic from the time we met until her late 20s. I knew she was bulimic. Her family knew she was bulimic. We all heard her throwing up after meals. She had all the excuses: "I ate too quickly." Or "My coffee was too hot." We all knew it and yet said nothing. She and I moved away from our families and once on our own, she started binging and purging at night. She was losing a lot of weight so I finally confronted her. I asked her to define 'bulimia' and she described herself. "But I don't have a problem," she lied. Under relentless pressure from me, it took her roughly a week to admit she had a problem and get help. Not surprisingly, her father is an alcoholic. I know her father drinks. Her entire family knows dad has a drinking problem. We all knew yet said nothing. And it continues even today. I married a woman who was raised in denial. In fact, she was exceedingly good at keeping secrets and had done so her whole life.   

​You asked about "someone who gets married knowing he's gay and then spends years lying and cheating may not be 'loving himself' I think." In my case, the facts were simple: I was in denial; society didn't want me to be gay; society wanted me to marry a woman; and so I conformed. I'm not surprised I married a woman who has spent her whole life living and denial and hiding secrets as well. It's what we found most attractive in each other. There wasn't any nefarious plan on my part. I was simply too afraid to be myself. The fog of denial was much more comfortable for me than blinding truth. And I married someone who found the fog familiar and in a way comforting.

​Do I have regrets? I do. Would I do it all over again? I would not. Thinking I can change the past or even change others is futile. Thanks to therapy, this forum, and living honestly I've come to love reality rather than my warped version of it. And this means being loving and understanding with myself, my wife (who did her best), and my kids.

​I hope this rambling post makes sense in some way. Thanks for reading.  

Last edited by Séan (November 20, 2016 6:47 am)

Sean, thanks for your honest posts. I have found them to be enlightening during probably the darkest time of my life so far (I'm 43). 

My ex b/f of 5 long years came out a few weeks ago, although not in the most usual way - if there is such a thing. He invited me to a wedding of one of his co-workers. I had to travel 2 hrs to get there. My ex worried me in advance about what I was going to wear, let me pay to get my hair styled right before the wedding, then at the reception, introduces me to his boyfriend Mike (or Michael as he calls him). I knew it was his boyfriend because Mike got a case of uncontrollable winking at my ex during the intro, aside from the flirty remarks he made at my ex right in my face. When I confronted my ex about it over the phone, he said in a very low, terse, cold tone "we laugh at you."  I told him to give Mike my sincerest thanks and I meant it. That was the last time I spoke with him other than my ex's lame attempts to call and talk to me, which ends with me not letting him get a word in, threatening to out him, etc. 

Like a lot of people posting on this site, over time I suspected, I asked him if he was gay, accused him of being gay, held the evidence put to light...asked for believable reasons for the towels and sleeping bags in the trunk and backseat of his car, asked why I felt like he just didn't really care about me.  He never, ever came out and said, I'm sorry I lied to you and have been making you crazy for the past 5 yrs, I'm gay.

I started to suspect in December of 2014 that he was gay or bi so I got tested for everything. I was diagnosed with HIV and then he was but I stayed with him. I think we needed each other after such a diagnoses and things were OK and sometimes pretty good for awhile after that. Then the lies and mind games started again, the gas lighting, the putting me on speakerphone for his boyfriends or hookups and them messing with me to entertain themselves. Once I had had enough of this treatment or he did something really shitty, I would leave him and a few months later he would beg me back and love bomb me, and the loneliness would be so hard that eventually we would get back together. This cycle went on for years. At the wedding after Mike's intro he told me that he loved me and my dogs and he wanted to move back in with me again. ??? 

My question is this...why is it so easy for him to just discard me like I am a piece of trash after we have been through so much together? I understand if he fell out of love with me but why did he have to be so friggin mean about it at the end? I am crying as I write this because I just don't get that part. It feels like maybe he is just really messed up and he just uses people as he goes along. And that part is weird to me because when things were good they were good and I really loved him. We even had a good sex life most of the time. We had the sex the morning of the wedding. 

I know I can't get back with him and I'm mostly glad I stuck around to see it with my own eyes. I think I would have stayed in the fog with my ex and our diagnoses forever if I had not seen it. I don't recommend it necessarily because it was/is painful but I needed to know for sure. 

So I'm going through the anger part mostly right now, trying to get to a better place but it's a slower process than I'd like. Please excuse the ramble and thanks in advance for reading my post and answering my question. 
 

I found this brilliant description of narcissism on another forum.

"This is the root of narcissistic behavior (in my opinion): From birth, narcissists are unable to tolerate or rationally process the range of normal human emotions, especially ones that imply vulnerability: guilt, shame, dependence, gratitude, obligation, boredom... emotions FEEL vulnerable, so they deny them, overpower them, retreat from them in to an idealized, safe, emotion-free, all powerful version of themselves that feels "safe". THIS is the mask you see in public. But in an intimate relationship, or any circumstance that involves emotions, the mask slips and you see the insecure version.

Those emotions exist in all of us, but when the arise in a narcissist, he/she must either: brush them aside in denial, or most often, externalize them by projecting them on to you. They may act in ways that provoke you to ACT OUT THEIR emotions, so they get to SEE them outside, exporting them, a sort of self-exorcism. What I mean is, they can't experience guilt, shame, weakness or vulnerability as part of themselves - they can ONLY experience the emotions if they see them as part of someone else. They project them on to others, and then stomp on them, rage, blame, all to escape. When they see you inherit or act out the emotions, instead of invoking empathy, it brings them relief and allows them to retreat in to the invulnerable "safe" mask.

That's why it's so crazy-making - they blame you for their own behavior, flaws, faults, vulnerabilities. Every show of rage or blame is literally an adrenaline fight or flight, irrational "escape" of emotions. As hard as it is, you have to learn to not take it personally (even though it couldn't be more personal...) because this is the pathology. And because he was never able to incorporate those emotions in to a coherent sense of self, he acts like a split personality. The rub is that without a coherent sense of himself, he is unable to have a coherent sense of others - a lack of empathy. So he doesn't really see YOU or your needs or emotions. He only sees a reflection of affirmation for his "ideal" self, or you reflecting emotions he can't tolerate, and responds with fight/flight. Do you see? Every single situation is about how it reflects on him - affirming, or threatening. Even you enjoying a quiet afternoon at peace can be threatening because it might evoke envy... the list is endless."

​Chilling but true.  

On second read of your posts, this jumped out at me when you said, "What you've described here is the typical narcissistic or sociopathic relationship cycle: hunt, capture, discard.  That explains why I've noticed that he discards me at the very moment I begin to feel something close to comfortable or relaxed in the relationship. Once I'm in the boat, it's time for him to move on, cause pain and drama. He such a small person and not because he's gay. I know these are not questions...I will follow up when I have an actual question. Thanks again