Thank you for writing Alex. In reply: 

1. Hi Sean, Happy Pride Month! Gosh... things are moving quickly. I realised I only posted 3 [months] ago and soooo much happened since then. 

Here is a link to your first post. Brief summary: 57-year-old husband; wife (Alex) found his voluminous gay-porn stash; husband admitted to being bisexual; no apparent history of cheating; couple tried male-female-male threesomes; they still have active/satisfying sex life; lots of therapy/couples counselling. 

2. My BH [bisexual husband] (out 6 months) has come to realise that he is predominantly same-sex attracted... In your terms, it means he is gay. Although he strongly prefers to identify as bi. In fact, he mostly uses the term ssa (same-sex attraction) rather than bi or gay. This term points to that it is something a person HAS rather than what they ARE. Subtle difference, but seems to be important. 

Understood. For me personally and for a large chunk of the gay community, same-sex attracted or "SSA" smacks of religious men who simply cannot utter the word "gay" because they think "gay" means immediately transforming into a sex-crazed drag queen on a Pride float. Your husband is perhaps what I call sexually gay yet emotionally straight. 

3. He arrived at this realisation through therapy - he has not had any real-life exploration and is still off [gay] porn. He seems to have worked through any remaining, deep-seated shame about his sexuality (hence all the open conversations).

I respectfully disagree with most of the above: 

- He arrived at this realisation because of you (his wife)
- Something like 4% of men successfully quit porn cold-turkey
- He has had real-life sex with another man; meaning with you (his wife) + another man
- I think it's a little optimistic to believe that he's worked through 50+ years of hiding his sexuality after a few months of therapy

I'd prefer to call this "then end of the beginning." 

4. He is out at work, to friends and ex-wife, I can have conversations about his ssa with anyone, so there is no "utility" in maintaining our marriage. Kids are grown up and almost out of the house. We are not religious (he is practically an atheist). I am a pretty crappy housewife, he carries more than half of the load at home. I earn less than him and don't have any rich relatives that might leave us an inheritance.  

Question 1: out as what exactly at work? 

5. He still wants to stay together!!! He is happy with any conditions I want - open marriage, closed marriage, monogamy, anything.

Question 2: so what do you want? 

6. He says that ssa or not, if he is not with me, he will be on his own. In celibacy. I know, dramatic, right? I am almost certain he is "demisexual" in addition to his ssa, so he needs the connection to engage in anything sexual. He says this ship has sailed for him...

Understood. I do agree with "this ship has sailed" if he means divorcing you and finding a male partner. In my limited experience, while closeted/questioning husbands might take a chance on male+male love in their 30s or 40s (as I did), once that closeted husband turns 50+, it becomes exponentially harder to fully accept a gay identity.   

7. He is with me, connected to me, loves me, understands me; that it would take years if not decades to find someone like me in a male form (if it is at all possible) and then so much work building the relationship up from the ground again. And just not enough time (he is in his late 50s) to build all this beautiful history together with kids, family, experiences, etc. Additionally, what we have been through in the last 6 months, how well we know each other, our dreams, fears and desires, the most hidden corners of each other's souls - this is almost impossible to replicate again. 

I heartily agree. 

8. I have walked out of our couple's therapy session today with a lot of validation that our relationship is more than viable despite him being "primarily ssa" based on our strong communication, connection and intimacy we have harnessed over the years and, in particular, in the last 6 months. For context, our therapist is a happily married gay man, I expected him to question and challenge the viability of our relationship, but he was fully supportive and encouraging, while I played the role of a challenger. 

Understood. 

9. I've heard all the supportive voices like "well, he just loves you, and love is love and so much more than sexual attraction, plus he's attracted to you anyway".  I need to hear the critical side and you are the best place to hear it from.. lol. 

I'm ready. 

10. Just to recap: he never cheated and I have never caught him on a lie since coming out... 

Well since you asked...I'm going to challenge you on this. Clearly your husband was lying while identifying as bisexual, because by his own admission he is more attracted to men. I would also be prepared to hear the classic, "Well there was this guy..." and "It only happened once..." or "I was sexually assaulted by a man down at the cruising park..." as he learns to be more honest about his sexual orientation.  

11. Sex is regular and good, sometimes pretty amazing. Communication is open and transparent, he is super attentive to my feelings. He is a lot happier than pre-disclosure, hasn't had any depressive episodes and some of the ocd traits he used to have are softening or disappearing. There is more lightness in how he communicates with other people - particularly men. He has always been great, but post-disclosure he has become an even better person, more settled, calm and content. I love him a lot and I really want him to be happy. 

All very positive. My fear is always that straight spouses like you get lost in his issues. So don't forget to focus on your own happiness as well. 

So, dear friend, I have three questions for you: 

1. Why does he still want me??? (feel free to skip this one - more rhetorical, really)

I can only speculate because I've never met nor spoken with either of you. Based on our many exchanges, I believe you have a very BIG and DOMINANT personality. So I'm inclined to think that your husband would be totally lost without you. Moreover, you seem to genuinely love one another and have created a life together. He'd be loathe to throw that away, particularly as he moves towards retirement age. Finally, at age 57 many men in his situation grasp that the possibility of finding love with another man is probably unlikely. Sadly, most of the gay community believes life ends at age 36. 

2. Can he ever be truly happy with me?

Yes. Based on what you've shared, it sounds like you two have been very happy together and I don't see why that wouldn't continue. He is very lucky to have such a kind, caring, and accepting wife. But there is a caveat: I would be very clear regarding boundaries going forward...like insurance-contract clear. There is the very real possibility that your husband will want to "explore" with men in the coming months/years. I would take 15 minutes and write down a definition for acceptable vs. marriage-ending behaviours. For example, if you define "cheating" as a relationship-ending activity, then write down and have your husband sign the exact definition of "cheating" such as "having any form of sexual contact whatsoever, whether in-person or virtual, with a man without the express permission of your spouse. Some examples are: watching gay porn; camming with and masturbating with another man; receiving oral from a man..."   

3. And in your opinion (as I am sure you will have one) - why is it not a good idea for a straight woman to be married to a gay man (considering he is practically perfect in every other way and meets all her needs)?

I'd reframe this as: I don't believe gay men should marry straight women for the following reasons: 

- No one should be forced to have sex with the wrong gender (a self-identified gay man like me having sex with a woman for example).
- No wife should spend every day post-discovery living with the fear, "Is today the day he tells me he's leaving me for a man." 
- By condoning gay/straight marriages, I believe we indirectly transmit the message that heterosexual relationships are "correct/right/acceptable" whereas gay relationships are "wrong/unacceptable/negotiable." 

Moreover, the statistics don't lie: 85% of mixed orientation marriages fail in the first three years following "discovery." The first year is similar to yours: she frantically deals with his homosexuality through intense therapy and perhaps a dose or two of sexual exploration. (She always does the reading, posting here, books counselling appointments whilst he does little to nothing.) Year two is a lot of "what the f*ck are we doing?" with the husband sadly cheating on his wife. Year three they realize they are incompatible, separate, and divorce. I don't think gay men should marry straight women because we so often trap you in our closets and/or shift our burdens on to you....something I believe has happened in your relationship Alex. You have never answered my questions: 

1. How many books has he read on this subject? 
2. What forums is he posting on to make this work? 
3. How many therapists has he found? 
4. How many counselling sessions has he booked? 
5. Did he take the lead in finding a third for your threesomes? 

If he hasn't done any of the above, that's the reason why gay men shouldn't marry straight women. Gay men shouldn't marry straight women because you so often take on the heavy burden of maintaining the relationship while also holding back his "same sex attraction." It's too much and most wives understandably break around year three. I hope that helps friend. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (June 6, 2024 2:40 am)

Thank you for replying Alex. I always enjoy our exchanges friend. If I may, there seems to be a pattern to our debates. You wrote:

"I need to hear the critical side and you are the best place to hear it from"

then following my reply wrote

"Hmm.. you delivered... sort of...Your reasons for gay men not marrying straight women are quite harsh. Condoning gay/straight marriages sounds particularly harsh, but explains your passion to this forum. We should really stop reducing people to their sexuality."

It smacks of "Let me have it!" then what feels like a certain frustration when my answers don't paint mixed orientation marriages (MOMs) as utopian. Fair comment? Here again are my replies: 

1. 15% of mixed orientation marriages (MOMs) succeed with 85% failing in the first three years. 
2. Your husband has admitted [your words] "he is predominantly same-sex attracted... In your terms, it means he is gay." and yet claims to have given up masturbating to gay porn and apparently does not wish to have sex with men. These two realities, "I'm gay but choose to never act on it," contradict each other and clearly haven't worked for him in the past. As such, I would be prepared to learn in the future that he has been surreptitiously acting on his attraction to men because that is after all his self-proclaimed sexual orientation. He also has a history of denying/hiding his attraction to men, despite some recent breakthroughs in therapy sessions. 
3. I hope you are among the 15% of successful MOMs because there is clearly love, intimacy, and trust in your relationship. Your husband also sounds like a prince among toads. 

I hope that helps friend but feel free to reply. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (June 6, 2024 11:28 pm)

Thank you for writing em-tag. In reply: 

1. Hi! I think I am just in denial but I am looking for some sort of clarity from an outside source to see if there's any chance this relationship is worth saving. I met my (now ex) boyfriend about 8 months ago on Bumble. We both moved to the UK for professional school while originally being from the same state and even attending the same undergraduate university there. We never knew each other before moving here. We hit it off really quickly, lots of the same interests and same goals in life, I had never met another man like him who treated me so well and made me feel so loved. We're both 25, and he had told me when we got together that he hadn't ever had a girlfriend before and that he was a virgin...

25 year old virgin who had never dated before are red flags in my opinion. 

2. ...which I was fine with. I was fine to do everything at his pace and didn't want to push him. This first time we tried to have sex he wasn't able to get an erection but he chalked it up to be really nervous/being in his head because he had told himself that it was definitely happening that night. 

Another red flag. 

3. After that, I did my best not to push him and just let him move things at his own pace. I don't know how much is too much info here, but when we were intimate after that, he was majority of the time the one who initiated things, and seemed to enjoy performing oral sex on me. He prefers morning sex whereas I would prefer it in the evening and would never really want to initiate things in the morning. I'll admit that there were a good chunk of evenings where I didn't really try to do much for him/check to see if he had an erection because anytime we were intimate together it was usually after we'd gone out with a bunch of friends and had about 5-7 drinks each and after he'd take care of my needs i'd forget about him (which I feel bad about now and wish i had tried harder).

Based on my own experience and based on my time here, it's common for closeted male partners to prefer oral to  avoid penis-in-vagina (PIV) sex. Gay men are not attracted to women nor their bodies so performing oral on her allows him to masturbate while avoiding the disappointment of not being able to maintain an erection during PIV sex. Many straight wives I've communicated with over the years claim, "We have a great sex life!" only to later admit that they haven't had PIV sex for years and she reluctantly pegs him with a strap on dildo. If the sex is this unsatisfying in your 20s, sex will likely be non-existent or completely unsatisfying in your 30s and 40s.  

4. In the back of my mind I was worried he wasn't attracted to me because I'd thought with him being a virgin he'd get erect super easily, but thought I was just too in my head about it. 

I'd trust your intuition. A heterosexual, 20-something virgin should be ROCK HARD with his first sexual partner. 

4. Almost six months into our relationship one of my peers exposed that my boyfriend had DMed a known gay guy from our very, very small school. He sent him super cringey messages, saying 'gimme cock', things along those lines. The guy he messaged didn't entertain it but showed the messages to other people at our school and made fun of my ex.

Again, this is another red flag. Straight men don't send "gimme cock" messages to gay men. If you were in the same highschool was he a theatre/choir kid who had mostly female friends?  

5. Once I was shown these messages, I felt completely blindsided and like it was a sick joke. I confronted my boyfriend and he lied and said it wasn't him before confessing minutes later. When I finally agreed to talk to him about it, I asked him if he had been on any apps or if it had been just the one time. He told me that he had never gone on any apps...

Lie

6. ...he'd just gotten really drunk

Lie

7. ...and didn't even know why he messaged this guy but that after he did he realized he only wanted me.

Strange how he didn't message another woman when he got drunk. 

8. Well, I found out shortly after that from a friend that my boyfriend had been on tinder and had matched with a guy from our school and told him 'i want to please you with my wiener', again a super cringey message.

So he was on apps and yet lied about it. Moreover, he could have messaged a woman on Tinder but actively chose to message another man. 

9. My boyfriend also has a male best friend he is extremely close with that I always thought was odd, but he's an only child and I thought maybe he was trying to connect with him as a sibling.

Is that friend gay? This is a common red flag: meaning a boyfriend-like relationship with another man. 

10. I confronted my ex about the tinder and he claimed he wasn't gay, that he had set the search to 'anyone' and would just use men to give him validation when he felt ugly and unwanted. Part of me is hurt by him saying that, because it makes me feel like I wasn't enough for him...

Because you're not and it has nothing to do with you being unattractive or undesireable. He is messaging men for sex because this is clearly his sexual orientation. 

11. ...but then another part of me understands because my straight male friends on dating apps are lucky to get more than 1 match a week. He asked to get back together but I told him I really hoped he would get help and that it wasn't my job to help him figure out his sexuality.

Brava! This is the perfect response. This should be a tattoo: "I really hoped he would get help and that it wasn't my job to help him figure out his sexuality." Well done my friend. 

12. He told me that growing up he had been bullied relentlessly and called gay because he never had a girlfriend, and that his mother would always pester him and ask if he was gay but he isn't. I asked him if he was at least bi and he said no, he didn't know why he sent those messages and that all he wanted was a wife and kids.

Being teased for being gay in school is a classic red flag. He was likely teased for being gay because he is most likely gay. Some other signs: theatre/choir kid; and mostly female friends.  

12. I also asked him if he was in love with his best friend, and he said no, that he had been severely depressed and completely alone, always staying in his dorm room, before he met this friend and had finally formed a friendship he knew would actually last which is why he latched onto him so closely. He said he's never done anything sexual with a man and has no desire to.

Bullsh*t. There isn't much ambiguity to "gimme your cock" and "I want to please you with my weiner." If he had written similar messages to women, would you feel the same way? 

13. He went to two therapy sessions following our conversation but said he didn't think he could afford to do more. He asked me to get back together two weeks ago and initially I said no, but now I don't know what i want. I miss him so much and my brain tells me he's gay, but my heart wants to believe him that he's not and that the constant bullying from his peers led him to question himself. He's been on my mind constantly this week and its affecting my sleep and work schedule. 

This man is so clearly gay and so very wrong for you. As a woman, you might be attracted to his brokenness and vulnerability, thinking you're the only person who can heal him. So I'd suggest a period of 3-6 months without contact. Once he comes out, you can be his straight best friend and ally...and perhaps a bridesmaid at his marriage with his male "bestie."  

14. I'm sorry that this is so long, but I just wanted to ask if you thought it was possible for him to really be so traumatized/bullied that it would cause him to try to sext a man when he was drunk.

No. He's messaging gay men because he wants to have sex with gay men. I've never heard of anyone claiming they were bullied into being gay. But it's a very novel excuse! 

15. I do know the biggest thing is that he cheated, regardless of it being with a man or woman, but I believe that he's genuine when he tells me he won't do it again.

Wait. Who did he cheat with? Please provide the details. So let's just run down his qualities: 

- He cannot perform sexually with you. 
- He messages men asking for sex. 
- He is dishonest. 
- He cheated on you. 
- He is likely gay. 

Why do you want to date this man again? 

16. But I also don't want him to repress a part of himself just because he feels like he needs to, and I also know I deserve to be with someone who's definitely attracted to me. Is it possible he really is straight/or just bisexual? Or am I in denial and need to just let him go?

Both of you are in denial. Move on and date a man who growls when you enter the room and can't wait to have sex with you. You deserve better than a lying, cheating, sexually confused man with performance issues who sexts men on the down low. If things are this bad in your 20s, imagine the hell you'll be in following marriage and children. Run! I hope that helps. Be well. 

Last edited by Sean01 (June 9, 2024 11:35 pm)

Thank you for writing Anon2222. In reply: 

1. Sean - I follow your thread on and off and appreciate your replies. I just want to offer a bit of back up on the fact that no one on this forum wants their marriages to fail. Pretty much every straight spouse here works their ass off to try to make things work. This goes way beyond LGBTQ - it's the lies, manipulation, gaslighting, narcissism and everything else that comes with it.

Agreed. In my opinion, there are several stages/categories of people who post here: 

Group 1 Questioning: "Is my husband gay?"
Group 2 Shock: "I caught my husband doing really gay things"
Group 3 Doubling Down/Honeymoon: "We love each other so he's not going to do gay stuff anymore!" 
Group 4 Hard Reality: "He's still doing gay stuff and lied to me!"
Group 5 Anger: "He's still doing gay stuff! I can't trust him so we're separating."
Group 6 Acceptance: "We're divorcing."    

2. I have seen so many straight spouses get decimated in this process, so I stick around on and off as I still work on sorting out my life (but have gone through 95% of the BS), trying to offer what little advice I can. Or, if nothing else, commiserate. 

Thank you for sticking around and being of service. 

3. While, I do understand Alex's passion for her relationship and conviction it will work. I also want to just follow up what you said with a word of caution for others reading this thread and clinging on to hope that their MOM will work. There is most definitely a honeymoon phase - and it takes 3-5 years for the dust to settle and see what is actually going to happen.

I reckon all journeys are unique, valid and instructive. For reference, here is part of your first post April 20, 2020:

"Short background: my husband came out as bisexual. We have been married for 14 years. Apparently he has been struggling with this for the past 4 years, but I had no idea. None. I was completely blind sided. He is adamant that there has been no cheating. Which I completely agree with. And he wants this marriage to work and be monogamous. Basically, keep it as is and it just be another part of him, but not mean anything. So, before anyone tries to put in what ifs and paranoia. No, he did not cheat. No there is no one else. No he is not hiding everything. He has been amazingly open, has answered all my questions, and has started counselling to navigate this journey. He is an amazing man, and I love him." 

This sounds very similar to a newer member to our forum. Then July 10, 2022, you wrote: 

"2 weeks ago...I'm sitting watching a tv show and he walks up and tells me he's gay. He can't make this work. He wants a divorce. My world tilted sideways. Apparently I was the only one committed to our marriage this whole time. 16 years...No discussion. I even asked him, was it the marriage? Was it sex? What was the problem. Would he stay married but have an open relationship? All sorts of questions. He didn't want a discussion. It was only about what he wanted. He was done. Made the unilateral decision to end the marriage without even talking to me. And did nothing to try to make it work." 

This forum and its members have wrongly been labelled as "angry" and "bitter." I think "realistic" is perhaps the better term for those who post here regularly because many are posting from positions of experience. I sometimes feel like the indulgent guncle (gay + uncle) listening to my just-graduated-high-school deeply closeted nephew tell me how much he's in love with his girlfriend and plans to marry her. Arguably I often write like a pink hammer that sees everything as a bedazzled nail.   

4. And just because this page has a lot of members who post with the "negatives" of this process, all they are trying to do is help. I remember my first few posts....about what an amazing husband he was, and how he would never do any of these things.....it's 5 years later and I'm still picking up the pieces of my atom bombed life.

Excellent points! Hindsight is sometimes 20/20. 

5. Proceed with caution is all I have to say, and give it time. And straight spouses, please put yourself first. In the end, you are all you have in this and you deserve better.

Thank you for sharing friend and for your continued service to this community. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (June 9, 2024 11:59 pm)

Hi Sean - Can you explain how members of the gay community seem to be completely ok with a closeted gay marrying a straight person as an acceptable alternative lifestyle.  Most of my ex's and my mutual friends are gay, and I learned that not only did they know he was gay when he married me, but they kept his secret for decades. When the truth finally came out, one of the mutual friends wanted to me to assure him that I was not leaving my ex because he was gay.  It is truly baffling to me. Mine was a sham marriage that caused no end of heartache, and serious mental and emotional damage, yet my gay friends seem oblivious and unsympathetic to the devastation of a highjacked life. We were married for nearly 40 years.  I would really appreciate any insight you might have.