that is a good set of questions - re counselling, I have to counter with a question - what sort of counsellor are you seeing, an LGBTIQ+ one, a trauma one, a marriage counsellor?  and tbh whatever sort of counsellor, the first question on my mind is are they gay?  (not that you're allowed to ask a personal question like that)

how long will it take?  I guess there are a few factors involved, but probably, as long as your wife wants it to.

I stayed for decades in my marriage and when I finally left I used to be in an agony of how could I have stayed so long but over time and actually also with a sly acknowledgement from him, the answer that I got is that I was being strung along.  For many of us it is a long slog of realising our partner is stringing us along for as long as they can get away with it, followed by an uphill battle to get a divorce.

On the personal questions, I agree - how could she not know she didn't feel the same about you as her girlfriends growing up.  And I agree with the second too, how is it possible for her to be in love with you, to physically want you and also want to date women - maybe it should be reworded - something like I want to keep your love and trust and continue to be able to get you to do whatever I want from you but it's really women I like.

Which tends to be a precursor to not wanting to have sex with you at all a little further down the line is what I hear from our stories here.  There was a real in shift our 40's between the ex and me, no way did he want sex with me and I was finding him completely off-putting too.  We went for staying together no sex, separate beds, then separate rooms and behind my back he was having a field day complaining to our friends I wasn't affectionate enough.  While beforehand when we were younger he had been complaining I was too affectionate or 'clingy'.

Many different stories here.

But one thing links them all, whether we are men or women. 

We are/were all married to people who put a very high value on the status afforded by marriage.

They all value the status they get from being married more than they value us as lovers.

There is no doubt that straight spouses can suffer from dishonest, lying, cheating, gaslighting gay/lesbian spouses.
But that doesn't mean that every gay/lesbian spouse is like that, and they all can simply be classified as "them".
It's nonsense to state it that black and white way.
It would be equal BS to state that "all straight people are good hearted and can be trusted". Yeah right...would you believe that???

I do symphatize with the straight spouses who are treated very badly and were damaged by what was done to them. It's truly terrible and horrifying.
But suppose this was a site about women who were systematicaly cheated on by straight men, they too would have similar experiences. Sometimes they say things like "all men are pigs". Is that true? Of course not, but from their viewpoint it's understandable they say things like that.

The discerning factor is what's the real character of a person and what is their view on life and values. For this determines their choices and the actions they take. It's not simply a matter of sexual preference.

So if a woman would admit to be lesbian (as in: decribing her sexual preference), would that fact alone make her a bad person and denote her as a toxic person?
Suppose she is lesbian in the attractions she feels, but nevertheless she doesn't cheat. That could also mean she loves her husband and her family, in spite of these attractions. It could be she's affraid what impact comming-out could have on her marriage and life, that's quite human not evil. But ask yourself if that  is describing the totally she feels and is there nothing more than that?  

Sometimes pure self-interest is the case, but I think you could notice that. Things like constant bitterness, condescending behaviour, uninterested towards her husband. A very unhealthy relation. Like a conscious choise is already made and her husband has lost all moral and emotional meaning to her. In case of narccisists, these aspects were never there from the start, but were simulated. These dark creatures exist. So if that's the case, one surely should get divorce.

Not disregarding this daunting possibility, many times it's cause is very different.
Some women are not in touch with their sexualitity, confused and not exactly knowing what to feel. Certain very orthodox christian/social upbringing, sexual abuse, or family circumstances can be identified for this.  Only later in life thse women discover this, but by then they're married. They love their husband and family, but they understand they lack the sexual click other women had towards men. They didn't knew what these other women exactly felt, reasoned it away for themselves (and husbands), and they just tried to make the best of it. Maybe thinking it was normal.
The man usually felt the sexuality wasn't what it was supposed to be, but didn't know what to do about it. 
There are no sneaky evil intentions. These women just became confronted with this fact when it (somehow) became clear to them what is really the situation.

Then you (consiously) enter a MOM (Mixed orientation Mariage). And the question arises what way you both want to go.

Some say: Go for divorce because "gay and straight" can never ever have a fulfilling marriage relation together.
I dare to question this stance, because from my own experience I know VERY sure this is not true.

At the same time I certainly don't state that such a marriage can be succesfull. For even while it's possible, this is true only if both really want it, and find the healthy path through it. There are many pitfalls left and right, so you have to walk on a narrow pathway that avoid the cliffs.

There is another option that I only mention to give the complete summary, that are open relations. Personaly I wonder why people would even settle for that option and not rather divorce and go for an real exclusive and dedicated marriage. But if both really want that, well it's something some choose.

As a general rule, it's wise not to take overly hasty decisions. Talk with eachother, take your time to think things over, give emotions some time to settle down. (even after each conversation). It are extremely difficult things to process rationally and emotionally for both.
Therapy can sometimes help, but it's very tricky at the same time. Finding the right kind of help is not at all easy. Some think "oh this needs a LGBTQ+ therapist". This maybe true in some cases, but maybe also the very opposite in other cases. 
Everyone has to be aware that "sexual orientation" is culturaly a very heavy loaded topic. Do you want to find a way so that you both have a happy marriage together, or what the culture arround approves and want to stick on you? Be aware that this may not be the same. The whole topic isn't neutral.

This last aspect plays it's part on gay/lesbian trying to get to grips with their feelings as well as the straight spouse dealing with this in his/hers marriage. Be ware that your're probably influenced by all that the media is portraying about (homo)sexuality during many years, telling what you ought to feel, what you ought to do, feeling guilty if someone chooses different. IMO leading you astray if you let that happen in your MOM.

Can and will you (both!) bring up the will to seek things out for yourselves and decide yourself independently? This certainly goes for the gay spouse, but don't underestimate the role of the straight in this. Too often I read they (straight spouses) are "supportive", meaning "following what culture expects them to do". Instead of considering what is right for their marriage and stand up for that.
For NO! you'll will not deny your spouse happyness. Well, only if you define it in a shallow way. If maximal sexual fulfillment is all there is that matters and defines you, well go ahead. But is this really it??? 

Instead you have the oportunity to find true meaning. Dont get me wrong, sexuality and pleasure in marriage is of real importance. But you can find it, give and receive it from eachother, whatever the sexual preference. It's the emotional door that is open (or not) that makes the defining difference.  
That doorway can be open, when it's not blocked by the "my identity is lesbian" wall. Nobody's "identity" is actually defined by only/primarily their sexual preference. Well, only if you allow that to be, but this is an recent invention oif the last century or so. But it's that much promoted that many, if not all, believe it to be the unavoidable fact. Also straight spouses go for it, without much questioning (like, what do they know?) .
Funny thing is: It's only true, if you believe it. 

The moment you accept: identity is so much more than sexual preference. Thinking (potentially) starts to change. Other values and feelings rise to the place they certianly should. Sexuality opens up too. Sexual relation in marriage changes and finds new connections.
It's not change in sexual orientation, it's a change in experiencing the other and expression towards the one person you love. It's allowing the other to enter the emotional sexual realm of oneself. Not blocking it with "identity", which goes like: "I'm lesbian, that's my identity, you can not pass that, for I hold my firm grips on it, otherwise I loose myself".
Maybe it's a bit abstract way to describe it, but this is at the center of it.

I hope it's clear that total acceptance is key in this. Just be who you are and accept what you feel. The sexual attractions one feels are real and okay, that's normal, natural... no problem. Everyone has that, not only the same sex attracted. Being a straight man, I feel attracted to other women than my wife. I don't care, and I don't act on it. (otherwise is would become a problem, but it's is my choice). The reason that I don't act on it, is that I am more than just my "sexual orientation thing". There are other aspects and values that define my identity.
Same things goes for my wife, who has same sex attractions but doesn't act on it. If my wife and I simply accept these realities, who cares?
However resisting the existence of feelings and supressing the notion of feelings, is a dead end. This goes both for me and for my wife.
But like in any marriage, we trust eachother that we won't simply act on feelings. We're human, not like instinct driven animals, it's not that far fetched to expect that of the other. Lesbians are no different and are not a subhuman species that we should consider "they or them"!

Then it's up to the lesbian woman in a MOM, to decide to open up to love in her life. Surely accept her sexual preference for women, but let the other sex spouse into her sexual and emotional being, and decide to let that to prevail. Mind you, it's not becoming bi-sexual, because for her it's not feeling attraction towards men in general. But it's about her love for a significant (male) person that drives it. It's a decision and choice, but it's fully taken from the heart. The value of it, can be even more meaningful to you, if you consider the choice that is at the root of it.

It makes you think about love (and even your own drivers). For what is sexuality? What role has it in real love? It are very deep questions that you can both learn about. 

But nevertheless, we're also "bodily human", being man and woman. We long for intimacy and to experience it. So I don't intent to strive for a spiritual connection, but physical as well. This is where feelings follow conviction. When both are aligned and emotional open to eachother, no more blocking "this is my identity that excludes you or else I will lose myself", then sexual feelings will follow. Finding joy in eachother, being open and honest, mutual appreciation (actually celibration) of being a woman with her qualities and being a man with his qualities. It can so much be actualized in a MOM and expressed in sexuality. 

This can happen for sure, I wish couples in a MOM will find this potential path. Consider it, think about it. Leave the beaten path and take that other turn.

Dutchman.

Last edited by Dutchman (August 29, 2023 10:02 am)