Thank you for writing Janey. In reply:

1. I'm intrigued to know how the gay partner rationalizes the 'sacrifice' of the straight partner, if you can help with that?  An example being, the many times I endured sexual rejection through months of no advances from him/him losing his erection with me which over the years caused me great distress.  I remember mourning the loss of my sex life in my late 20's/early 30's.  When I asked him about his thoughts and feelings he would say he'd spent all day thinking of me, he wanted to be close to me, hear me come etc.  His words didn't match his actions which was very confusing.  I know what's said about their lips moving, they're lying/manipulating, but I'm asking more about the thought processes.  How can a person, who proclaims to "love" another, witness/justify effects of their hurtful, destructive actions on another human being and be okay with it?  

​These are excellent questions and I'll try to answer based on my experience. I remember the family room at my parents' house which had a fireplace. In the winters my dad would often light a fire and unfortunately he was terrible at it. So I'd be playing in our family room and very slowly, almost imperceptibly, it would get smoky. It would get smoky to a point that I couldn't see very well and would start coughing. So eventually I'd head outside. It was only when I was outside in the crisp winter air that I'd realize how difficult it was to breathe or even see inside the house. This is what I believe happened in my own marriage. All the fiery elements were there in the beginning: me the narcissist, self-absorbed, husband; she the co-dependent wife living completely for me; and this smouldering secret which hung over our relationship like a bad haze. In relationships, I think things get better or worse by almost imperceptible degrees. I've seen this happen with both gay and straight couples. I was very much interested in sex in my 20s. Who isn't? I was young, horny, had a lot of free time, and had convinced myself I was straight. Moreover, we were both in the flush of young love. Things changed in my late 20s and early 30s. We were both working and so we were often fatigued. We started having children which changes even the best of relationships. I think this follows the trajectory of both gay and straight couples. Bodies sag, the relationship becomes more work, and child rearing becomes the couples' primary focus. We went from passionate lovers to partners, to co-parents. The relationship became more routine. This is where a lot of couples I know start cheating but the gay in denial spouse like me accelerated the breakdown in the marriage for two reasons: I was in a relationship with the wrong gender so I had ZERO physical attraction to my wife; and I found a much more exciting sexual outlet in porn. To answer your question, I truly did love my (then) wife. But it was an almost paternal and completely non-sexual love. Besides the relationship was working perfectly for me. I had a home, a loving wife, kids she raised for the most part, and I was safely and secretly living out my gay sexual fantasies online. Perhaps I saw her suffering. Who knows. But I know I did nothing to change it. Why? Because it worked for me and it was all about me. The relationship had always been about me and she was my willing enabler. If she dared speak up or act out, I'd let loose my narcissistic arsenal to bring her back in line. It was cruel, heartless, and I so regret it now. But at the time, I was operating in such a haze of porn, lies, and denial that I couldn't see her suffering. I had convinced myself that our rocky relationship was her fault. Our lack of sex was her fault as well. What's f*cked up is at the time I truly believed it. ​I think that is what scared me so much. I was a gay man in denial and yet still blamed her for everything that was wrong in my life. It was so cruel it makes me cringe. she deserved so much better.    

2. Btw it kind of reminds me of boys at school who would pull off wasps' wings or spiders legs which I would never have done because I knew it would damage the insect, thought it was unnecessarily cruel and would have made me feel guilty.  I'd really appreciate reading your thoughts and anyone else's on this matter, if I've made myself clear about what I'm asking.  

​Perhaps. But I believe we gay in denial spouses are even worse. Rather than get our own hands dirty, I think we're the kids whispering in the ear of the bug torturer to tear off the wings or legs. We're the manipulators which just gave me a little shudder. There are many examples of this posted here and from my own relationship. For example, I convinced my wife she needed therapy when ​I was the problem. I needed the therapy. ​Whenever she initiated sex, I'd make it seem like she was doing something awful and on the rare occasions when we actually had sex, it made my skin crawl. I regret it all. I've read countless posts here when straight spouses still question whether their husbands are actually gay. And this is after they've seen photos or video of their husbands having sex with men! ​But I get it because I was there; both spouses are operating in a kind of haze. But the difference is that the gay spouse has one clear purpose: looking out for his own interests and the primary interest is hiding his true sexuality.

​I hope I answered your questions but I can't help but feel that I've rambled a bit. If you have more questions, please write again.        

Last edited by Séan (November 12, 2016 6:18 am)

JK thank you for sharing this. You've come an incredibly long way in just a year so well done. I'd like to echo several things you wrote about in your post:

​1. Accept Reality: Most gay/straight relationships were already pretty terrible. When I look back, mine was just God awful so feeling nostalgia about my broken relationship is useless. It's like dancing on the deck of a sinking ship. None of us want to go down to the bottom, but running around the deck like a mad person is a stressful waste of time. My ex-wife rightly got everyone into a life raft and then let me sink or swim on my own. I feel for the straight spouses who are still waiting for gay in denial ex-husbands and ex-wives to finally come out. Waiting on them to do the right thing puts you right back on the deck of the Titanic.   

​2. Feeling Emotions: Anger and bitterness towards the gay (or gay in denial) spouse are necessary and healthy emotions. But over time I learned these emotions become toxic.  

​3. Moving On: While it's healthy for a straight spouse to feel anger towards his/her gay ex, remaining angry for a lifetime is soul-destroying. For me and my ex-wife, we needed to move on. This means I had to stop pretending I was in a relationship. My daughter said to me recently, "I don't like seeing you together. It's like you're pretending again. You're divorced so you're not best friends."

​I realized that my ex-wife and I spent a lot of time wishing things would get better, rather than accepting reality. It was only when I truly accepted reality, namely that I was a gay man married to a woman, that I could then separate, divorce, and heal. Thanks for sharing JK as I've learned from your post.

Thank you, Sean, for taking time to read my post & answer my questions. Unfortunately, I’ve been hanging out in ‘limbo land’ since I discovered the gay porn pics/videos in 2013. Since then, the only questionable thing I found was a link to ‘queer literature’, that he again denied. Regardless of whether I believed him or not, I realized I no longer trusted him, if I had to constantly check his phone/tablet. to me, that’s not a marriage if the trust is gone. So why am I still in the marriage? Because I want ‘more’. more proof. I know that’s horrible, but I feel like I need more evidence. He hasn’t changed his appearance (in wardrobe or physically); he doesn’t travel; he leaves his phone/tablet around without a password. Nothing except the months of gay porn/etc from 3 yrs ago. That should be enough, for I know in my heart that straight married men do not look at gay porn or pics of naked men, at least not for months. He could care less about sex (often says he’s tired, or it’s his antidepressants), doesn’t seem to desire me, etc. I know he probably has SSA, but that he doesn’t want to. His only sibling, his brother, is gay, & his now deceased mother never accepted it. She refused to. So he was her ‘golden boy’: her straight son, married to a doctor (for 21 yrs), w 2 kids (a boy & a girl). He has every reason to suppress that attraction, for he would ‘lose it all’. 
I apologize for rambling, but I’ve been stuck for so long, I find myself ‘rambling’ in my marriage also. If I am the one to say ‘enough’, I feel like I will be blamed, unless I have more concrete ‘evidence’. I worry that others will think i’ve made a mtn out of a mole hill. And yet, I think about it every. single. day. 
sigh. 

thank you for your honesty & your concern, for wanting to help us on this horrible journey we didn’t ask to go on.

CT

Thank you all for sharing. You've described the period of questioning his sexuality as "limbo" and a "haze." What you're feeling is something similar to the questioning period every gay person experiences. Even in the face of overwhelming proof, it can be a time of self doubt, hesitation, and depression. I've read countless posts here where straight spouses just want their gay husbands to "tell the truth" and "own it." As you've so bravely shared above, this is easier said than done...for both spouses.

​Mrs Lonely wrote: "I hate myself for being so weak."
​Cherrytree wrote: "I think about it. every. single. day."

​You've perfectly described the gay-in-denial spouse's state of mind. You also mentioned feeling "stuck" in a sexless marriage. In my case, I felt it was easier to simply limp along rather than suffer the upheaval of separation and divorce. I only acted when faced with a questioning wife and thoughts of suicide. Don't let it come to that my friends. You deserve better than lying husbands and years of depression. You deserve partners who love and desire you. Unfortunately, my wife would never have this with me, a gay man. As painful as it was, we ended it and have started to heal a few years later. I hope that helps in some way. Thanks again for sharing your stories.

In your words:

"I do NOT want to celebrate holidays, with my STBX...We could all be together, and the entire celebration be horrible right now. I do NOT want to pretend, just to make him feel better...I do need to be careful to not anger my STBX.  Our divorce paperwork is not, yet, signed.  If he gets angry, he may not agree to what I am asking, and I believe it all to be fair and reasonable and in the  best interests of our children."

Thank you for sharing JK. I'm sorry you and so many other straight spouses are being held hostage by deadbeat ex-husbands (or soon to be ex-husbands in your case). Time and time again, I'm struck by how you're all nobly trying to do the right thing, even in the face of lying, cheating, and deceptive former spouses. I'd share your feelings with your kids, then ask for their input. While they may not be able to verbalize how they feel, you'll be giving them an excellent example of sharing your own feelings.

​Of course you can't put your divorce settlement at risk. Given what you shared, it doesn't appear that kicking him out put your settlement at risk. And this was when he really wanted to stay together. So perhaps spending Christmas apart isn't too risky? Your call.

​Regardless, I'd urge you to think about yourself. If you do spend Christmas together, do it on your terms. He organizes and executes it. Mom's been through enough so she gets to relax, have a glass of wine, and let others serve her for a change. A relaxing meal in exchange for a gay husband seems fair in my humble opinion. Be well.