Wow didn't see that coming.
He didn't give the stripper oral sex, just touched him everywhere, including his penis that was all within a few minutes because we didn't even last one song he saw I was not into it and stopped the dance actually the stripper rubbed his penis on my face and I slapped it away, so gross.

I started this post because I wonder if this is a slow burn to the end of this 'marriage' (we're common law with kids).

He's always tried to control me in small ways and I slip into it and then 'correct' it by telling him to fuck off that he can't decide what I get to do.  But I don't think it's as bad as you think I'm fairly resilient so I bounce back and stick up for myself.  I actually saw the play Gaslight with him in England, funny eh, if you haven't seen it it's very good.  Anyway I told him what he was doing was gaslighting and it had to stop.  I don't think I actually have PTSD I just used that because that stripper night and the things he's said he wants to do keep churning in my head, I really just cannot believe it.  

Sean what you said in #1 of your post was pretty accurate but is that a narcissist, I hadn't really thought of it like that?  He used to try to control who I was friends with and when I was young I didn't really realize it but I noticed it and ended it when my friends were dropping like flies, so he doesn't do it anymore.  This sounds so stupid, I had not put all of this together before.  Don't get me started on my family he's an outright asshole to them and they're always trying to be nice to him.  When they visit everyone is always on eggshells, except my dad who tells it like it is.

What would that behaviour have to do with TGT.  

Vicky

What Kel says:
I think maybe your husband wants (for whatever reason) to think of himself as straight.  He decrees it, therefore it is.  The fact that he's liking things a straight man wouldn't makes no difference to him - because HE's straight, and HE likes it, therefore it's possible.  It's like a duck declaring himself a chicken, and then when someone says "You can't be a chicken - you quack", he says, "But I AM a chicken, and Iiiii quack, therefore chickens must be able to quack."

That's exactly the way I feel about my husband thinking he can "become" a woman. 

What you've shared Vicky sounds a lot like things narcissists do: 

1. Isolating their partner from friends/family. 
2. Conflict with friends/family who are "on your side" or "against" them. 
3. Manipulating their partners. 
4. Eroding their partner's self esteem...and sometimes sanity. 
5. Gaslighting. 

I'd recommend reading "The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists" or perhaps other books about narcissism. With regards to manipulation, I doubt it was your idea to go to the strip club, pay for a private dance, and then have the guy rub his d*ck on your face. Narcissists love bomb potential sources of supply because they constantly need attention, approval, adoration, and admiration. They are often master manipulators who slowly isolate their 'sources of supply' because they can't stand competition. Competition can also come from children who need your attention as well. They often violate their partner's boundaries by eroding their self-esteem. I'm not sure if this applies to your situation but you might want to read up on narcissism. Kel recently shared a similar revelation while speaking about her ex-husband with her current husband I believe. She might be a better source of information than me. 

Last edited by Séan (November 9, 2016 4:07 am)

You can't really control if he cares or what he cares about but you should always be true to your own standards. If you did something you regret it's hard to hide from yourself. I did not know you were in the Toronto area. I haven't been to a meeting for a few years now but it's a good group run by an excellent facilitator. There's no need to feel fraudulent or worry about confidentiality. I think you will find it helpful, I know I did.

vicky wrote:

I don't have the benefit of 'disclosure' like others and how relatively lucky do I think those people are!   It's all smoke and mirrors over here I wish I had something he just explains it all away.

You're right - disclosure is a gift.  The mistake we make is thinking that disclosure is validation of them being gay, and them not disclosing means that, well..... maybe they're not gay.  We figure if they're gay, we can't fix that, so there's no hope, so we may as well throw in the towel.  But if they're not gay, then potentially whatever else is wrong can be fixed, ads so we'll try to fix it.  And therefore we won't give up yet.  But in the end, it's not about validation, or whether or not the problem can potentially be fixed.  It comes down to it's not getting fixed.  I have a problem, it's making me unhappy, I've communicated it to my spouse, and he/she is either incapable or unwilling to do what's necessary on their end to fix it.  If that's where you're at, then it's time to call it.  It doesn't matter if it's fixable or not if it's just never going to get fixed.

I'd like to think the best case scenario is that we could live amicably together for the kids, we always did get along, really we've always acted like friends (I just didn't realize why) couldn't we continue to do that?

Well of course you can continue to live amicably together.  I'd argue that it's not really in the kids' best benefit for that to happen, though.  Your marriage is their model for what to expect of their own one day.  A marriage without genuine desire and warmth and compassion and passion is not one you want for your kids.  I trust that you also don't think that their lesson for their own lives should just be, 'lower your expectations'.  You want them to reach for the gold.  And they'll never know what it is they're reaching for if their model is a shadow of what it should be.

Living together amicably would mean (for you) giving up on sex altogether.  It would mean admitting that he's just not that into you (or women in general), and he therefore is only having sex with you in order to keep you placated, and that's NOT the reason you want your spouse to be having sex with you - just to keep you from acting up.  You want them to WANT you.  So deciding to live together as sexless spouses means that you'll both be lacking in this area when it comes to fulfillment.  It's not like he's got no desire for sexual things - he has them for men and gay images just fine.  If neither of you wanted/cared about sex, then maybe this could work.  But since it seems that both of you do have that need/desire, but his isn't for you per se, then you're left with unfulfilled needs.  Which means misery.  The solution would be to have sex outside the marriage.  Could that work?  Sure.  It could.  The danger is either one of you falling in love with another, or taking too much time away from the other person to spend with others.  It spawns jealousy, ups the chances for disease, and means that you need to go outside the home to find what you should be able to find within it.  Eventually, your spouse becomes more of an annoyance than a friend.  Neither of you can be happy for the other, really - even if you couldn't care less about them going outside the marriage, you don't want to hear how much others will fulfill them.  So you can't be friends on that level.  You are then literally living with someone whom you can't truly share your life with.  What's even the point?

This may make me sound like a complete asshole but if he doesn't want to go along with this why can't I just cheat on him?

You could.   But then again, why would you need to?  Why not just agree to both have the benefits of an open marriage?  It's less sneaky, it's truthful, and you don't have to try so hard to cover your tracks.  If you feel the need to keep it from your spouse, then that means you truly believe you shouldn't be doing it.  If you don't think you should be doing it, then that means that you don't truly think that marriage without monogamy is a real marriage.  And that means that you shouldn't be trying to fit yourself into that box.

he didn't care (that a fit, hot guy hit on me).  Not one bit jealous.  I was sexually harassed by a contractor at work and I was quite upset by it and I got no response of sympathy, anger or jealousy from him.  How could he not care?

I remember this happening to me.  How can a man not care if someone's trying to take something that's his?  Answer: because it's not important to him to have that thing.  Men are by their very nature possessive over the things they've built - their money, their jobs, their possessions, their loved ones.  It's what they've put all their energy into, and they will protect it by roaring like a lion when someone comes near any of it or threatens it.  If he's not roaring, then that thing isn't that important to him.

He doesn't notice me unless he's in the mood all other times I could be a lamppost.

Yep - been there!  It didn't matter what I did - pranced around naked, lost weight, got my boobs done, got a tummy tuck, wore fantastic lingerie, shaved (down there), etc.  It didn't matter because that's not why he liked me.  He liked me because I made his life easier in the ways that counted to him.  My body (and his attraction to it) weren't important to him.  Me staying his wife and continuing to support him in other ways was.  So he just ignored what he didn't care about and assumed that he got the package deal even if he wasn't putting in the work.  Truly selfish - I will take what I want and need, but I will not do the same for you.

I feel like he's feeding me enough attention that it keeps me off balance - it's almost as if he's thinking 'oh ya we haven't had sex I better keep her happy'.

That's exactly what he's doing.  He knows that men are seen as desiring sex, so he'd better show that toward you otherwise you'll catch on.  Sprinkle in a bit of build-up on his end and he's just physiologically hornier, so he can muster it.  I've heard guys in the office talk about how they'd take this chick (for her body), so long as they could put a paper bag over her head.  Which just shows you that as long as they have enough of what they need, they can deal with the stuff that doesn't turn them on (or turns them off).  A fat chick is better than no sex at all.  "Eh" sex is better than no sex.

To the ladies or straight guys out there is it my imagination, should he not notice or at least look in my direction when I walk around naked even if it's not for sex?  Just in a general attracted sort of way?

It's NOT your imagination.  You are NOT overthinking this.  My current straight husband will materialize out of nowhere if I take my clothes off.  I could be around the corner, changing, and he'll suddenly be up behind me, saying, "Did you call me?" with a gleam in his eye.  Or I'll be taking panties off for bed and he'll say, "Slower babe, S-L-O-W-E-R."  I'll be changing when I hear him say, "This is my favorite show."  He'll come up behind me when I'm alone in the kitchen and put his arms around my waist and seductively kiss the back of my neck and say, "Later".  I had some uterine surgery last week.  The post-surgical information sheet said, "No sexual intercourse or active sports for two weeks following surgery."  When I went into the bathroom, he crossed out the 'No' and wrote in 'PLENTY of', and crossed out 'for two weeks' and wrote in 'immediately'.  It's been a running joke all week.  When he was pulling the car around while I was being wheeled out afterward, I showed the nurse what he'd written.  They all laughed and said, "Let me fix it for you."  They crossed it out and wrote no sex for THREE MONTHS.  I showed him in the car.  He simply said, "I'm gonna have to have a talk with your doctor - mono e mono".  I was feeling crummy a few days after surgery and he encouraged me to call the doctor.  I got back to him telling him that all is normal.  He texted that he'd called the doctors himself and the nurses told him that I was clear for intercourse.  I texted back "No, no, no, no, NO".  He texted back a meme of a sloth that says, "No means yes, and yes mean anal".  Now is he ACTUALLY bugging me for sex?  No.  If I tried, he'd tell me that I'm not ready and he doesn't want to hurt me.  But is he letting me know every day that he still wants me?  YES.  THIS is how it's supposed to feel.  If it doesn't, then you're not getting the most out of life.  And you won't have it until you decide that what you've got isn't enough, and it's not changing.

Kel

Last edited by Kel (November 17, 2016 2:48 pm)