turned out my counsellor was the gay spouse, recently divorced - not that she told me at the time.

I have been reading and posting here for years and the impression I have formed is that straight spouses are generally considerate people, kind-hearted, compassionate and gay-friendly.

There is a bit of a prohibition on 'bad feelings' in society in general but my experience has been that good-natured people remain good-natured even when they are angry they wouldn't hurt a fly.









 

Last edited by lily (January 24, 2023 10:52 am)

Hey Anon-

Just so you know, I agree with nearly everything you've said here. I haven't exactly been cheated on but what happened feels like it. I don't fully understand what she's told me with so many conflicting angles, and I believe that she's been confused, but I also believe I've been lied to and manipulated so I stay in this marriage for much longer because that's what she wanted. I believe that was partly based on love, but also fear and self-preservation and I feel I've been controlled and deceived.

The amicable stuff comes and goes. Right now she's angry at ME and hasn't spoken to me in over a week, ignores my existence, etc. Apparently my going on dating apps to see what it's like to interact with straight women (with no intention of or desire to meet anyone) is inexcusable, but it's perfectly fine for her to dance and touch a woman drunk in a bar. Nevermind I gave her permission to go on a date when I believed she didn't know what her orientation was (figuring out if she really wanted women was the sole reason and I explicitly said that), even though she's apparently known the entire time. She wasn't confused about desiring women, she was confused about wanting men (me). That would have been good information to have. No need for the date then, right? Seems like we should be exploring ways for her to be happy with ME, not experimenting with women. But I've apologized for hurting her and she's ignoring me. 

It has helped me to talk with a gay man who's a new friend. He went through it with his straight wife. He's helped me understand her POV. He's also told me I didn't sign up for this, it's not my fault, I haven't done anything wrong (including the app thing), I don't deserve to be treated the way she's treating me, she needs to stop trying to control me, I don't deserve to be closeted either, etc. It was transformative for me to hear someone who has gotten to the other side of this situation telling me that, especially from the gay perspective. 

I did realize I've lumped some of the podcast episodes together with a few comments I've read here when I'm expressing concern over hating gay spouses. I think anytime people talk about all women who come out as lesbians, or all gay spouses and what "they" do as a whole, it's a problem. Sounds dehumanizing and it's exactly that kind of language that was used to justify the holocaust, race-based slavery, genocide, homophobia, etc. When anger is directed at a group it's a problem. But you're also right, very few people are doing that here. I apologize for generalizing too much. That, too, is wrong.

Speaking about legitimate grievances about what your LGBTQ spouse does isn't homophobia. My wife has talked about finding God's expansive love for her in this. I recently told her I'm glad she's experienced that but I don't understand why God's love for her feels like hatred and torture for me. I told her I see a lot of instruction in the bible (we're Christian) about what love and marriage is supposed to be and I'm not seeing how that's what's happening here. I was then accused of weaponizing the bible against her. I guess she gets to talk about God's love but I don't get to ask when I'll expierience it from her. 

The amicable stuff might be over. Something else to grieve. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised?

Anon2222 wrote:

2717 - I just want to point out something that I am happy you have not experienced, but unfortunately a lot of us have.

You and your spouse are currently able to work together. Your wife didn't cheat on you. Lie to you. Manipulate you. You are having open conversations and working it out. Your wife also didn't try to turn the kids against you and make you the "bad" parent.

There is nothing wrong with standing up for yourself. And no, you don't have to let your spouse control the story, as you are very much a part of it yourself. Just because your spouse came to this realization that they're gay doesn't mean you have to be a doormat.

When it comes to kids, no, you do not want to drag them into adult issues. And your focus is also on their well-being. But calmly explaining your side of the situation in an age appropriate way, while not being negative about your spouse is justified.

Also - I have yet to see anyone on this forum that "hates gay people" or blames people for being gay. I have also yet to see anyone who focuses solely on the spouse being gay and telling their children that they hate their spouse cuz they're gay. 

What I have seen are examples of these straight spouses supporting their children in their sexuality, because the opposite is true, they want their child to be comfortable, able to talk to them, and support them so the very thing that happened to them doesn't happen to someone else with their child.

These straight spouses know the mind fuck that is this process. And I don't care whether you are gay or straight, sleeping with someone else (whatever the sex/gender) is cheating. Using your spouse as a cover for your lies is wrong. Telling your spouse how much you love them, while not meaning it, is wrong.

In this process, something that has really ticked me off is that if you say anything about your feelings, someone is accusing you of being homophobic, anti-gay, repressing, or pushing gay people into the closet. 

I was an unwilling participant in his games. And I'll be damned if I'm gonna take the abuse of people telling me all about how he gets to live his "true life as his true self". And then get lectured on how I'm somehow hurting the gay community for sharing my own side of the story and not just rolling over and taking it. Cuz what was I for 2 decades then? Considering he knew for awhile, used me, and then discarded me like a piece of trash. 

And, I work with the LGBTQ population frequently, and sadly it's a behaviour I have come to learn is not uncommon. Sadly, I've even seen some who actually enjoy the deception. It's not ok. And straight spouses already get the short end of the stick in all this if we aren't "supportive enough" in our spouse coming out.

I am happy for those where it does work out, and remains amicable, and you can continue to talk and work things out. But I was left as a shell of who I was and suffered a ridiculous amount of emotional and psychological abuse. And if I want to talk about it, I will. Because I'm tired of being made to feel ashamed for how I feel.

I call bullshit. Because, I know plenty of gay people that didn't marry a straight person and use them. They didn't destroy other people's lives to get what they wanted.

Last edited by HereInMpls2717 (January 29, 2023 9:26 am)

HereInMpls2717: Welcome to the mind-bending phase (others call it the mindf *** phase). Your wife is redirecting the focus, blame, or criticism away from herself to avoid dealing with negative consequences. Deflection is a form of gaslighting. God's love is not to hurt you in the process of your wife's new discovery. For the sake of your sanity,  seek help for your healing and direction. Limit any conversations with your wife about dating. She'll use it as a weapon. Focus on what you want for yourself and your children. Stop trying to process her feelings. 

Thank you gwendolyn_c,

I'm in therapy and talking to a few supportive people now. You're right about mind bending. I can't even know how badly this has affected my ability to live the last year, how it affected my business, etc. I'm trying to work through as much as possible now while I'm off so I can focus on making enough money to live after divorce, not to mention finding more friends. I've decided that my life needs to be my own and only be shared with people who want what's best for me. I think I've learned who that doesn't include now. One more loss along the way. Eventually I'm sure the losses taper off and you can start adding better things and people, right?. Maybe that's starting to happen. Says the man about to go through a divorce hahaha! How delusional. 

Thanks for your support, it means a lot.

gwendolyn_C wrote:

HereInMpls2717: Welcome to the mind-bending phase (others call it the mindf *** phase). Your wife is redirecting the focus, blame, or criticism away from herself to avoid dealing with negative consequences. Deflection is a form of gaslighting. God's love is not to hurt you in the process of your wife's new discovery. For the sake of your sanity,  seek help for your healing and direction. Limit any conversations with your wife about dating. She'll use it as a weapon. Focus on what you want for yourself and your children. Stop trying to process her feelings. 

I posted regularly a few years back, though I don't much now. After 24 years of marriage and 5 children, my GID spouse came out and left. To me, telling the children the reason their father left was essential. They were ages 8 - 20 when told. We straight spouses did not know the truth, and that crushed us. Telling my children has helped them to understand their lives.  Can you imagine being a child (even an adult child), assuming your parents have a good marriage, when all of a sudden the marriage ends abruptly? Can you imagine being a child thinking that nothing makes sense anymore? Children wonder and their incorrect guesses can cause all kinds of damage.

Knowing the truth has helped them understand both my struggles and their father's...how his struggle led to dishonest and selfish choices that affected all of us so deeply. They understood why I was angry and why I lost an unhealthy amount of weight and looked ill. They understood why I was in shock. They recognize that their father's disengaged detachment and depression had nothing to do with them or me. The kids and I struggled through those first years together. Those were heartbreaking years, full of unimaginable pain. I do not think we would have made it through had I not told the children the truth. No counseling or advice can help when a lie remains. I wanted my children to heal, so I told them the truth. Telling the truth is not outing someone when it is about them, too. I truly do not think my children would trust me as they do, had they not been told the truth. My children trust me completely.

I will say that it is extremely important that children be told carefully. If there is any type of LGBTQ bashing, that will come out as hateful. Hate never helps. I was hurt and angry and in shock. I did not handle everything perfectly, but I did my best. The one thing I know I did right was never condemn my ex for being gay. I was angry at his deceit our entire marriage. That hurt the children as much as it hurt me. I told them the truth so that they could heal. We have been divorced for 6 years now. My children are not confused as to why their father left. They know he made a horrible choice to stay in the closet and be dishonest. They each have their own type of relationship with him now. As far as my relationship with the children, we are very close and very open and continue to work through family struggles together. We could not have supported each other without everyone knowing the truth.

We straight spouses were not given the truth. That was painfully unfair. I think the children deserve honesty and truthfulness, the sooner the better...even if time has passed. Not telling them perpetuates the lie, in my opinion.

Last edited by jkpeace (February 1, 2023 8:22 pm)