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December 28, 2022 5:18 am  #2081


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for writing Shh0406 and happy holidays. This was your first message to me: 

My boyfriend 31 yrs old I'm 36 yrs old..of a year an a half does some very strange things.
1. Best friend whom he works with told me out of blue he's bisexual and likes to have anal sex with men.
2. He wants me to peg him "Dominate" him at least 3xs a week.
3. Won't touch my lady part but does like to give oral and doesn't have a problem getting hard.
4. Would never sleep at my house until i made a huge fuss about it and has started to spend the night after 7 months.
5. Let his best friend in #1 move in with him.
6. Went on a trip to NC to see his "best friend"invited me but didn't tell me when he was going until i couldn't request off work. Stayed in a hotel with guy from NC when they went to myrtle Beach for day n did couple outings such as went to beach, out to eat etc..
7. When he got home admitted to me he was molested and would never do that with a man. After i accused him of being romantically involved with #6
8. Is very secretive. My gut tells me something is very off but he's so manipulative and lies about most things.
9. Turned snap chat locator on his phone and was at multiple random houses when i was at work.
10. Catch him looking at and checking out men all the time.. but then it was women to mostly men.
11. Always avoids going to gym with me.
12. Grindr app said there was someone 8 feet away from me when i made an account and we were both home.
13. Another friend he would spend at least 3 to 5 hours with every thurs until i found out he texted him.."hey sexy. "
14. I've asked him if he's bi.. he denies it.. I've asked him if he's gay.  Denies and always says "I'm not betraying you. It's not what you think. I have never cheated on you." But snap chat shows different and so does his actions.. should i leave him? Please help so confused


I want to highlight points 7 and 8: 

7. When he got home admitted to me he was molested and would never do that with a man. After i accused him of being romantically involved with #6
8. Is very secretive. My gut tells me something is very off but he's so manipulative and lies about most things.


Now in response to your recent post: 

1. Sean, I don't understand and if u could please explain...If a little boy gets sexual molested and that's his first ever sexual experience.. which leads to erection... they think they like it or put that with sadism and becomes the only way they can get hard.. how is it not from sexual abuse?

I have no idea because I've never been molested nor abused and I'm not a mental health professional. But I am often asked this question so I contacted my friend and esteemed psychotherapist Dr. Joe Kort (bio here). He said point-blank that, no, sexual abuse does not determine a person's sexual orientation. I have interviewed out gay men who were sexually abused as minors and, in their words, they were gay boys who were abused. They didn't become gay due to sexual abuse by men.  

2. It opened their sexual arousal template and that's all they know..i really want to understand this?

When a questioning or closeted husband/partner claims "I was sexually abused..." there are two possibilities: 

Possibility 1: He's telling the truth. 
Possiblity 2: He's lying. 

In your first post you wrote, "He's so manipulative and lies about most things." so I think you have your answer. I have often received the statistic that 1 in 6 boys are molested/abused, which is about 16.7% of all male minors. If these numbers are correct, that means 83.3% of boys are not sexually abused. Strangely 100% of all cheating (with men) husbands/boyfriends claim, "I'm f*cking men because I'm a victim of sexual abuse."

My question for you is: does it really matter? If you define love and the foundations of any long-term relationship as honesty, sexual attraction, intimacy, good communication, and authenticity, then I reckon your boyfriend is failing miserably on all counts. (No one is posting here because they're in a happy and stable relationship my friend.) Regardless of whether his latest claims of sexual abuse are true or false, what's the best outcome? Either he's lying about it which means he's a borderline sociopath and even if he's telling the truth it's going to take him years, if not a lifetime, to overcome the trauma. Is this man really worth it? 

3. Another thing do u think homosexuality is a mental illness and why?

No, I do not think homosexuality is a mental illness nor does the American Psychiatric Association. However, I do believe I suffered from mental illness due to hiding and lying about my homosexuality. 

4. I wish this site had a search so you wouldn't have to answer same questions.. thank you. 

No worries. My questions for you are: 

- What exactly are you getting out of this toxic relationship? 
- Why continue dating such a troubled man?
- Do you now believe that working through these claims of childhood sexual trauma will somehow make him into an honest, communicative, and totally heterosexual prince charming? 
- Will this dishonest and manipulative man (your words) ever make you happy?

If you had parents who suffered from addictions, depression, or mental illness, you might want to explore co-dependency: www.coda.org; perhaps with a qualified therapist. Co-dependents often define love as saving others. They seek out relationships with broken or abusive people because they feel an overwhelming need to fix/heal others...often at the expense of their own happiness and well-being. Food for thought. Thank you for posting friend and I hope things improve in 2023 and beyond. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (December 28, 2022 1:42 pm)

 

January 2, 2023 10:56 pm  #2082


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Dear Sean,

Thank you for your prompt and thorough response.  It has taken me a few days to process everything you said in your reply and to listen to the podcast episodes that you recommended.  All were extremely helpful in giving me some insight into my situation.  I thought I would try to answer your questions as best I can.

Understood. If you're in your mid 40s or early 50s, in my experience this is when most closted/questioning husbands start to (overtly) cheat on their wives with men, particularly when you're empty-nesters. 

This is very accurate as far as the ages go, not sure about the cheating since we were trying an open relationship.

3. I have known for a long time that he has a same sex attraction...

Given the wording "same sex attraction" am I safe to assume that you're from a religious/Christian background?

Yes, both from a Christian background and upbringing but we have not attended church regularly during our long marriage.  It is safe to say that homophobia was very present in both of our conservative southern Christian homes growing up and homosexuality was seen as sexually perverted.  This could go a long way to explain.

4. ...and I confronted him about it I 2015 due to some behaviors (getting handsy with male friends) that were getting more frequent and public.  He admitted he was attracted to men back then but didn’t think he could ever act on the attraction.

Question: can you be more specific about "handsy"? I reckon he was already "acting" on his true sexuality if he was feeling up male friends and work colleagues seven years ago. As I've shared in many previous posts, these "behaviours" often represent just the visible tip of the iceberg. Gay-in-denial (GID) husbands often get caught because they're doing so much outside of their marriages that getting caught pink-handed is sometimes inevitable. So what's my point? In my experience, 9/10ths of a closeted/questioning dad's cheating often remains underwater...meaning he gets caught once but much remains hidden/undisclosed. On an unrelated note, if there has been tension between mom and dad for the past seven (7) years, most adolescent kids pick up on it and are often aware of dad's cheating. And why? Because they discover dad's hidden online life and yet keep it from mom for fear of provoking a break up. Food for thought.   

Handsy = he was crotch/dick grabbing straight male friends, for example my sister’s husband and the husband of a close friend.  Also rubbing the chests of a men in conversation complimenting them on working out, etc.  I either witnessed these behaviors or was told about them. 

5. I offered to let him explore if he needed to, not wanting to be in a marriage with a closeted man who might come out later and he declined.  In May of this year, my husband kept “jokingly” saying we need to invite a particular male friend of ours for a sleepover.  This lead to us having a threesome with him and eventually deciding to open up our marriage.  This past summer we played with another couple and my husband had his first interaction with a man and it was like Pandora’s box was opened.

Smart. I believe you're the 10th straight spouse I've interacted with who allowed and/or participated in swinging. Questions:

Can you describe what exactly happened during the "interaction"?  We were out of town at a bar with another couple who are swingers (the girl is a friend of mine).  My husband kissed the other guy on the mouth in public in the bar.  My friends husband (who I thought was straight) was a little taken back but allowed my husband to kiss him multiple times.  Later in the hotel room, my husband jerked him off and gave him a blow job, also multiple times.  There were two beautiful women in the room who were wanted to have sex with him, myself included and he was unaware of our existence.  He did eventually have sex with my girlfriend the following morning when she asked in a 3 way situation with the other guy.  He says this is evidence of his bisexuality but I am not an expert.
b. Would it be safe to say your husband enjoyed the "interaction"? I had my first make out session with a girl and he didn’t even notice.  He was totally unaware of what was going on in the room.  He almost had a crazed look in his eyes, like a drug addict who had their first hit of heroin and wants more.

While I'm not a mental health professional, most of the straight spouses who swing or participate in threesomes are horrified to see (first-hand) just how much their husbands enjoy having sex with men. In fact, their closeted/questioning husbands appear to enjoy sex with men much more than having sex with their wives. Please feel free to confirm if this was your experience.   Yes this was definitely my experience (see above)  He says the kiss at the bar and later at the hotel was his first physical interaction with a man and I watched it happen.

6. In the beginning it was like a honeymoon period. We talked all the time and had frequent sex, although there was always a realistic dildo involved.  He was very insistent that all of our explorations be done together as a couple.

My question is as follows: are your sexual needs/desires getting met during all of these explorations? This follows a common pattern: the wife suspects her husband is questioning/gay; she gives permission to open the marriage; he only appears interested in introducing a man to their consensual "play"; there is never any suggestion of introducing a woman because he isn't really interested in sex with women; a honeymoon period begins but it never results in (his) penis going into his wife's vagina (penis-in-vagina or "PIV" sex); toys are introduced making their sexual encounters more male-on-male in nature (she often pegs him); he often insists on watching gay porn during these sessions with his wife; she is horrified to see just how practiced and present he is with any (real world) male-on-male play such as passionately kissing or performing oral another man; she is more of an anchor, accesory, or masturbatory tool and never really feels satisfied as she strives to meet his every gay-like sexual need. Please let me know if any or all of this applies to you.

The short answer is no my needs are not being met.  The play we were having as a couple ceased, my husband told me I could explore on my own (because he wanted to do his own thing) and we completely stopped having sex.  The few attempts I made to be intimate failed.  No PIV sex for a while now.

7. Then 3 months ago he decided we could explore on our own and he has been seeing men exclusively.  He has completely checked out of our relationship.

I'm so sorry this happened. You deserve better. By writing "he" decided, am I safe to assume that you didn't agree or perhaps weren't really consulted on this next step?

No I was not consulted, he has dictated every step of this journey along the way.

8. There’s one man that he has been seeing locally regularly.  Last week he took off on a trip with a man he met on a gay dating app.

These are red flags, particularly if you haven't consented to any of this. I'd consult with a mental heath professional and/or read up on something called "gay adolescence"……
This is so spot on, and the video was helpful.  His desires to explore with men and his erratic behavior only seem to be getting more intense.  Last week I asked him to move out, I could not handle the roller coaster ride on the mindfuck machine any more.

9 & 10 Were spot on and I was shook after reading this because it helps to explain the psychology of what is happening and why he is saying he wants to stay married and be a family but none of what he is doing supports what he’s saying.  The denial is so entrenched, he still thinks that he can live the double life and go through the motions with me while he’s messaging 5 or 6 different men and seeing at least 3.  When I ask him what he is feeling to try to understand, he says some things are private and he can’t talk to me about it.  This is infuriating.

I have a screening call with a counselor tomorrow.  Again, your insight has saved me so much heartache and bewilderment.  I feel like I at least am on the road to understanding, and for now that’s something.

 

January 3, 2023 4:25 am  #2083


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for writing Jewels. Here is a link to our first exchange. In reply to your post yesterday: 

1. Thank you for your prompt and thorough response.  It has taken me a few days to process everything you said in your reply and to listen to the podcast episodes that you recommended.  All were extremely helpful in giving me some insight into my situation. 

Excellent. And a Happy (belated) New Year. 

2. I thought I would try to answer your questions as best I can. Yes, both from a Christian background and upbringing but we have not attended church regularly during our long marriage.  It is safe to say that homophobia was very present in both of our conservative southern Christian homes growing up and homosexuality was seen as sexually perverted.  This could go a long way to explain [my situation].

Thank you for responding. Although I'm not a mental heath professional, I have found that closeted/questioning husbands raised in anti-gay Evangelical communities are often the most resistant to admitting, "I'm gay." As children or adolescents, many are subject to homophobic brainwashing so the word "gay" is simply too triggering. For some, the words "I'm gay" are sometimes as triggering as "I'm a leper" or "I'm a predator."  

3. Handsy = he was crotch/dick grabbing straight male friends, for example my sister’s husband and the husband of a close friend.  Also rubbing the chests of a men in conversation complimenting them on working out, etc.  I either witnessed these behaviors or was told about them. 

This is of course a red flag. Few wives would stay with husbands who acted this way with female friends, family and co-workers. Because it's assault. 

4. We were out of town at a bar with another couple who are swingers (the girl is a friend of mine).  My husband kissed the other guy on the mouth in public in the bar.  My friends husband (who I thought was straight) was a little taken back but allowed my husband to kiss him multiple times. 

Gay. 

5. Later in the hotel room, my husband jerked him off and gave him a blow job, also multiple times.  There were two beautiful women in the room who were wanted to have sex with him, myself included and he was unaware of our existence. 

Again, gay. 

6. He did eventually have sex with my girlfriend the following morning when she asked in a 3 way situation with the other guy.  He says this is evidence of his bisexuality but I am not an expert.

Nor am I but most straight husbands would jump at the chance to be with two women...and yet your husband was laser-focused on the other man. All red flags in my opinion.

7. I had my first make out session with a girl and he didn’t even notice.  He was totally unaware of what was going on in the room.  He almost had a crazed look in his eyes, like a drug addict who had their first hit of heroin and wants more.

This is likely because he was acting on his true sexuality, meaning homosexuality, with that other man. 

8. He says the kiss at the bar and later at the hotel was his first physical interaction with a man and I watched it happen.

As I've shared in previous posts, most straight wives who participate in swinging are often horrified to witness just how much their husbands enjoy sex with other men. 

9. In the beginning it was like a honeymoon period. We talked all the time and had frequent sex, although there was always a realistic dildo involved.  He was very insistent that all of our explorations be done together as a couple. The short answer is no my [sexual] needs are not being met.  The play we were having as a couple ceased, my husband told me I could explore on my own (because he wanted to do his own thing) and we completely stopped having sex.  The few attempts I made to be intimate failed.  No PIV [penis-in-vagina] sex for a while now.

Again this follows a common pattern: the gay-in-denial husband has his first real-world experience with another man; this experience effectively kills his ability to 'pretend' with women like his wife; the wife then simulates gay sex by pegging her husband with sex toys; and PIV sex eventually ends due to a myriad of bullsh*t excuses. 

10. Then 3 months ago he decided we could explore on our own and he has been seeing men exclusively.  He has completely checked out of our relationship. No I was not consulted, he has dictated every step of this journey along the way. There’s one man that he has been seeing locally regularly.  Last week he took off on a trip with a man he met on a gay dating app...His desires to explore with men and his erratic behavior only seem to be getting more intense.  Last week I asked him to move out, I could not handle the roller coaster ride on the mindfuck machine any more.

As I shared in our previous exchange, it sounds like he's now experiencing "gay adolescence"; this is a period of teen-like self-centredness and sexual exploration. As author/podcaster Dan Savage has often shared in his podcast "Savage Love", and I'm paraphrasing here, "No matter the age when a gay man comes out, once out we all revert to fourteen-year-olds emotionally." 

11. [Your answers] 9 & 10 Were spot on and I was shook after reading this because it helps to explain the psychology of what is happening and why he is saying he wants to stay married and be a family but none of what he is doing supports what he’s saying.  The denial is so entrenched, he still thinks that he can live the double life and go through the motions with me while he’s messaging 5 or 6 different men and seeing at least 3.  When I ask him what he is feeling to try to understand, he says some things are private and he can’t talk to me about it.  This is infuriating.

It's quite common for the newly out "gay adolescent" husband to act like a petulant teen. I certainly did. My (then) wife became like a mother to my surly teenager because she was essentially the only adult in our household as I blithely f*cked my way through most of the gay men in my area. My own gay adolescence lasted about two to three years. 

12. I have a screening call with a counselor tomorrow.  Again, your insight has saved me so much heartache and bewilderment.  I feel like I at least am on the road to understanding, and for now that’s something.

Good luck my friend. Counselling is an excellent idea so I hope it goes well. I also mentioned "The Velvet Rage" by author Dr. Alan Downs as a resource about the coming out process. Please keep coming back and sharing, either here or on your own thread. I reckon that for every straight spouse posting there are dozens learning from your journeys. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (January 3, 2023 4:28 am)

 

January 3, 2023 4:43 am  #2084


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Happy New Year all.

Thank you Sean for your last reply. I hope you had a wonderful Christmas.

I have a little update on my situation. I thought things had got better and I’d convinced myself I was just thinking this all up in my head. I can’t even trust my own judgement anymore.

My husband finished work for the Christmas holidays on 21st December and we have had the loveliest break as a family. Although it didn’t start that way. The day after he finished work, we got into an argument because our son had chicken pox and we couldn’t agree on the best cream to apply. Anyway the argument and his words used against me led me to tell him I’m sick of the outbursts and we need to really be adults about this for the sake of our children. I was tired of feeling not good enough with his masturbation on the toilet to women on WhatsApp (so he claims)I basically told him to leave and we can be civil. I’m not sticking around if I don’t have the TRUTH.

He laid on the bed crying and explained that the reason he’s been so up and down is because that day at the sauna, when the man massaged him and got “too close” to his private parts, he ejaculated. This would explain the semen I found in his swimming trunks.

I asked him if he’s been questioning his sexuality and his reply was “no. I am as straight as they come.”
He said that he didn’t get an erection but it’s like his body sent a message to just finish it now because he felt so sick from the man’s hands all over him. So he ejaculated. Seeing him so upset over it made me just want to help him, comfort him. So I told him it’s ok and it’s totally normal for him to ejaculate when he’s being touched close to his privates. 

My question for you is, IS this normal?

During our Christmas break, we’ve been all over each other, me more than him. We’ve had sex every day which I’ve enjoyed more than ever because I’ve felt so emotionally connected to him. I BELIEVED him. When I believe him I feel close to him again.

How can he seem to enjoy sex with me, but also manage to ejaculate when a man touches CLOSE TO his private parts. He has never ejaculated like that when I’ve touched NEAR his penis or anus.

2 days ago I checked his stash of Cialis. 2 pills missing. This means he has taken them while he’s been off work WITHOUT being open about it. He hasn’t been anywhere, mostly at home with me and the children. So the only reason he could be taking them is so he’s able to perform for me. He clearly has no problem keeping an erection for masturbation because the day I caught him he had a RAGING boner.

Anyway, this morning he’s gone back to work. AN HOUR EARLY. I called him and asked why he’s gone to work so early today. He was parked up on an industrial road next to his work APPARENTLY. I told him that seems off, why would you stop there? He flew off the handle! Said he stopped to have a cigarette. But wouldn’t you just drive the extra 2 mins and smoke your cigarette then?

Something else worth mentioning I think - we had a male budgie. He said it would be a good idea to get a female budgie to keep him company and because it’s “nature” (male and female) he also said something one night about our 3 year old daughter even knowing that it’s natural for a male and female to attract. Seems a little like he’s really TRYING to prove he’s straight do you think?

I am so confused and driving myself mad wondering.

Any help or advice welcome, or even a head shake - I definitely need one of them!

 

January 3, 2023 9:21 am  #2085


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for writing Pink. In reply: 

1. Happy New Year all. Thank you Sean for your last reply. I hope you had a wonderful Christmas.

I wish you the same Pink. 

2. I have a little update on my situation. I thought things had got better and I’d convinced myself I was just thinking this all up in my head. I can’t even trust my own judgement anymore.

I applaud you for having the courage to post anew. I will again urge you to seek out a mental health professional and/or contact the following women's aid association (link). In my unprofessional opinion, constant confusion and disorientation are possibly signs of an abusive relationship. 

3. My husband finished work for the Christmas holidays on 21st December and we have had the loveliest break as a family.

I think there is a major disconnect here my friend given what you shared, namely: 

- Although it didn’t start that way. The day after he finished work, we got into an argument because our son had chicken pox and we couldn’t agree on the best cream to apply.
- Anyway the argument and his words used against me led me to tell him I’m sick of the outbursts and we need to really be adults about this for the sake of our children.
- I was tired of feeling not good enough with his masturbation on the toilet to women on WhatsApp (so he claims).
- I basically told him to leave and we can be civil. I’m not sticking around if I don’t have the TRUTH.

Perhaps it's time to rethink the term "lovely" my friend. For me personally, a lovely holiday break doesn't mean: arguing in front of your kids; discussing separation/divorce; yelling about your husband's porn/masturbation habits; and threatening to kick him out.    

4. He laid on the bed crying and explained that the reason he’s been so up and down is because that day at the sauna, when the man massaged him and got “too close” to his private parts, he ejaculated. This would explain the semen I found in his swimming trunks.

This doesn't explain anything because it's bullsh*t. I think a more accurate account would be your husband lying about his visit to a gay sauna, lying about having sex with another man at said gay sauna, and then getting caught by his wife (you) with semen in his bathing suit. Need I remind you that he lied about going to a straight (naked) sauna "without a reservation" even though that (straight) sauna doesn't accept clients who haven't reserved. He claimed he was sexually assaulted by another man at the straight sauna even though it's clearly a public place. And now his current version is that he was forcibly massaged and then spontaneously ejaculated...into his own swim trunks? If this was a naked sauna then why the swim trunks?  

5. I asked him if he’s been questioning his sexuality and his reply was “no. I am as straight as they come.”

Erm, no. For a self-identified straight man, he seems to be doing a lot of gay things like ejaculating during male-on-male massages in naked saunas. (These are his words.) There comes a point in all toxic relationships when the spouse (you) simply gets off his pink-merry-go-round of lies, evasions, and manipulations. While I'm not a mental health professional, I reckon you're confused because his lies simply don't make sense. 

6. He said that he didn’t get an erection but it’s like his body sent a message to just finish it now because he felt so sick from the man’s hands all over him. So he ejaculated.

More bullsh*t. So now we're to believe he's like some human squid who squirts semen (rather than ink) as a defense mechanism? This man is delusional. 

7. Seeing him so upset over it made me just want to help him, comfort him. So I told him it’s ok and it’s totally normal for him to ejaculate when he’s being touched close to his privates. My question for you is, IS this normal?

F*ck no! There is nothing normal about him nor this relationship. Again I'd urge you to discuss all of this with a mental health professional. If you feel an overwhelming need to comfort your husband, even when you're so clearly the victim, you might want to explore co-dependency with a qualified therapist.  

8. During our Christmas break, we’ve been all over each other, me more than him. We’ve had sex every day which I’ve enjoyed more than ever because I’ve felt so emotionally connected to him. I BELIEVED him. When I believe him I feel close to him again.

Use condoms condoms condoms! I refer to this as a "honeymoon" phase. It's also called "love bombing." Most straight spouses I've exchanged with over the years find themselves on a merry-go-round of discovery-confrontation-honeymoon for years before they separate and divorce. In my experience, the "honeymoon" phase, during which a questioning husband may also attempt sex with his wife after years of neglect, only lasts a few weeks or months.  

9. How can he seem to enjoy sex with me, but also manage to ejaculate when a man touches CLOSE TO his private parts. He has never ejaculated like that when I’ve touched NEAR his penis or anus.

Because his "I ejaculated as a squid-like defense mechanism while getting my privates massaged by another straight man in a completely straight naked sauna" story is pure horsesh*t. 

10. 2 days ago I checked his stash of Cialis. 2 pills missing. This means he has taken them while he’s been off work WITHOUT being open about it.

Cialis is to have sex with another person. More lies and perhaps cheating? 

11. He hasn’t been anywhere, mostly at home with me and the children.

What does "mostly" mean? I'm assuming there have been times when he's out and about on his own but feel free to confirm. 

12. So the only reason he could be taking them is so he’s able to perform for me. He clearly has no problem keeping an erection for masturbation because the day I caught him [watching porn in the bathroom] he had a RAGING boner. Anyway, this morning he’s gone back to work. AN HOUR EARLY. I called him and asked why he’s gone to work so early today. He was parked up on an industrial road next to his work APPARENTLY. I told him that seems off, why would you stop there? He flew off the handle! Said he stopped to have a cigarette. But wouldn’t you just drive the extra 2 mins and smoke your cigarette then?

Well if he runs into another aggressive male masseur, at least he has a sure-fire way to distract/escape: spontaneous squid-like ejaculation! I jest but only to highlight the absurdity of his excuses. Let's acknowledge the pink elephant in the room: your husband is apparently popping Cialis and cruising industrial parks for sex...likely with men. He wouldn't be the first closeted/cheating husband who used anger to avoid questions and distract from discussing his sexuality. 

13. Something else worth mentioning I think - we had a male budgie. He said it would be a good idea to get a female budgie to keep him company and because it’s “nature” (male and female) he also said something one night about our 3 year old daughter even knowing that it’s natural for a male and female to attract. Seems a little like he’s really TRYING to prove he’s straight do you think?

Trying and failing miserably I reckon. 

14. I am so confused and driving myself mad wondering. Any help or advice welcome, or even a head shake - I definitely need one of them!

Here is my advice which is similar to my suggestions in previous posts: 

- Get tested immediately for STDs/STIs. 
- Going forward, only practice safe sex with your cheating husband (read: condoms). 
- Stop looking to your dishonest husband and his enabling family for honest answers about his sexuality. 
- Start individual therapy and/or reach out to the women's group I posted about above (link) to determine if you're in an abusive relationship. 
- As you continue to challenge him about his erratic behaviour, lies, and manipulations, be ready for him to escalate by threatening suicide, claiming he was abused as a child, and/or faking some life-threatening illness. 
- Ask yourself: if my adult children came to me with similar horror stories about their spouses, what relationship advice would I give them? 

Thanks again for sharing Pink. Feel free to answer my questions (or not) and post as much as you like. You're not alone. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (January 3, 2023 9:57 am)

 

January 3, 2023 11:12 am  #2086


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you Sean, for your honest words and for the link.

I will clarify a couple of things I wasn’t clear on and I’ll answer the questions you’ve asked in your reply to my post.

“Lovely” probably isn’t the best word to describe our Christmas holiday. I think I have developed a trauma bond. It’s like when he’s horrible I just want things to be nice again. Nice enough to the point where I feel loved and cared for, appreciated even. So when I do feel a touch of “nice” I just feel totally in love with him and never want the feeling to end. Sadly though I can’t shift the thoughts I’m having about him and what he’s up to. This doesn’t even make sense to me so I’m sorry if it’s like a load of jibberish to you.

Right so this is his correct version of the sauna experience. He arrived at the sauna, put his stuff into a locker and had a walk around. Got talking to a few guys (some were older) but this particular younger guy was very friendly with my husband and offered him a massage to which my partner accepted. So off they went into the (private room?) I guess. The guy asked my husband if he would like the massage with shorts on or off. My husband said off because he didn’t wanna look like a shy little boy - his words. The guy gave my husband an amazing massage. Again - his words. Clicked his back and everything. Then got adventurous and started massaging inside my husbands thighs while brushing past his penis a few times. Then he went onto massage around my husbands anus area.  Once the massage was over, my husband ejaculated as he sat up to get off the massage table. The guy threw my husbands swimming trunks at him and said “I had you popping like a red bull can” 

My husband said the way the guy threw his trunks at him made him feel used.

He was home most of the time apart from the odd errand. So he would pop to the shop up the road and literally be back within 10 minutes. Or he would drive to his friends house to pick up pot which can take anywhere from 30 mins to 2 hours.

Could he really be picking up men for sex at 6:30am before he starts work? There is a travellers caravan site opposite his workplace which got me thinking he could have another woman there. I don’t know I just never ever had him down as a gay man until recently. It’s so difficult to believe this could be real.

He’s just returned home from work as I’m typing this. He comes in, goes straight into the bathroom with his phone. Every. Single. Day. Says he’s held his poo all day and really needs to go. 15-20mins later emerges from the bathroom. I just keep my mouth shut. But I bet he’s masturbating to gay porn in there.

The sad and most frustrating thing about all of this is if he could just tell me the TRUTH - if he is gay in denial, and he would just tell me, I would forgive him and honestly be his best friend. I know it would be so so heartbreaking to hear it from his own mouth but We have two children together and I just want to enjoy the rest of my life and let him enjoy his.

On the other hand of that is what if I’m wrong? I don’t want to throw away our relationship if its no big deal and it’s all just me being a big paranoid mess.

 

January 3, 2023 12:06 pm  #2087


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thanks Pink. In reply: 

1. Thank you Sean, for your honest words and for the link.

My pleasure. 

2. I will clarify a couple of things I wasn’t clear on and I’ll answer the questions you’ve asked in your reply to my post. “Lovely” probably isn’t the best word to describe our Christmas holiday.

100% agree.

3. I think I have developed a trauma bond.

Bingo! Again I'd suggest sharing all of this with a qualified counsellor or mental health professional. 

4. It’s like when he’s horrible I just want things to be nice again. Nice enough to the point where I feel loved and cared for, appreciated even. So when I do feel a touch of “nice” I just feel totally in love with him and never want the feeling to end. Sadly though I can’t shift the thoughts I’m having about him and what he’s up to. This doesn’t even make sense to me so I’m sorry if it’s like a load of jibberish to you.

This makes a lot of sense and, from what I understand, is quite common in narcissist/co-dependent relationships. The narcissist slowly and methodically reduces the amount of love, affection, and attention given to a partner. It's not unlike emotionally starving a partner (in this case the wife: you). You're starved to the point that any scrap of attention from your husband seems like a meal. And after many years together, the co-dependent spouse will see any scrap of emotional connection on his part as some form of confirmation that he loves you. I hope that makes sense.  

5. Right so this is his correct version of the sauna experience.

Sigh. Here we go again. 

6. He arrived at the sauna, put his stuff into a locker and had a walk around.

Ok. 

7. Got talking to a few guys (some were older) but this particular younger guy was very friendly with my husband and offered him a massage to which my partner accepted.

Lie #1: Men just don't walk around Turkish/Russian (read: straight) saunas offering each other massages. You can pay to have a professional massage but random straight men don't just start lathering each other up. I've been to lots of gay saunas, where men have sex with men, and I've never been offered a massage...ever. So let's just translate the word "massage" for "sex" as in: a younger guy offered to have sex with my husband and my husband accepted.  

8. So off they went into the (private room?) I guess.

This has a hint of truth. In gay saunas, there are public areas where men connect with other men then move to private cabins to have (consensual) sex. So I reckon your husband and this younger man agreed to have sex...in private. 

9. The guy asked my husband if he would like the massage with shorts on or off. My husband said off because he didn’t wanna look like a shy little boy - his words. 

Lie #2: none of this makes sense. Let's reduce this to the bare facts: your husband was naked in a private sauna room with a younger man. Does that sound in any way straight? Not in my universe. 

10. The guy gave my husband an amazing massage. Again - his words. Clicked his back and everything. Then got adventurous and started massaging inside my husbands thighs while brushing past his penis a few times. Then he went onto massage around my husbands anus area. 

Ahhh yes the classic "anus" massage which is right up there with the Californian or deep tissue massage. Again let's reduce this to the bare facts: your husband was naked in a private sauna room with a younger man who touched his penis and anus. Your husband also claimed this was sexual assault. Who in their right mind would characterise a pre-assault massage as "amazing"? He's lying. 

11. Once the massage was over, my husband ejaculated as he sat up to get off the massage table.

Lie #3: your husband claimed this was a sexual assault. So he patiently waited (naked) until the massage was over, sat up, then spontaneously ejaculated? I think the police call this "word salad" as every one of these statements contradict each other. Ok let's reduce this to the bare facts one more time: your husband was naked in a private sauna room with a younger man. This younger man performed an erotic massage during which he touched your husband's penis and anus. Your husband ejaculated. But it was an elaborate sexual assault. 

12. The guy threw my husbands swimming trunks at him and said “I had you popping like a red bull can.” My husband said the way the guy threw his trunks at him made him feel used.

So your husband was naked in a private sauna room with a younger man (gay). This younger man performed a massage during which he touched your husband's penis and anus (gay). Your husband ejaculated as a defensive maneuver, something like a squid shooting ink (lie). Then following this traumatic and explosive sexual assault, the young man calmly threw him his swimming trunks and made a joke (lie). On what planet does any of this make sense? On planet horsesh*t perhaps.   

13. He was home most of the time apart from the odd errand. So he would pop to the shop up the road and literally be back within 10 minutes. Or he would drive to his friends house to pick up pot which can take anywhere from 30 mins to 2 hours.

Again, you're making contradictory statements here my friend. He was home most of the time, except when the father of your children was making two-hour drug runs to his friend's house. Let's just add drugs to his growing list of qualifications. 

14. Could he really be picking up men for sex at 6:30am before he starts work? There is a travelers caravan site opposite his workplace which got me thinking he could have another woman there.

I think after his naked squid game private room anus massage sauna exploits with younger men we can rule out cheating with women my friend. I reckon on that front, you're more than safe.  

15. I don’t know I just never ever had him down as a gay man until recently. It’s so difficult to believe this could be real.

I'm sorry you're suffering friend. The only surreal thing about this is your husband truly trying to pass off ejaculating with another man in a private sauna room as some strange defense mechanism against sexual assault. Your husband so clearly had consensual sex with this man in a (likely gay) sauna. But I've got to hand it to him, I've read a lot of bullsh*t excuses, evasions, and justifications during my time here. But "I had a hands-free orgasm to protect myself" really takes first prize.   

16. He’s just returned home from work as I’m typing this. He comes in, goes straight into the bathroom with his phone. Every. Single. Day. Says he’s held his poo all day and really needs to go. 15-20mins later emerges from the bathroom. I just keep my mouth shut. But I bet he’s masturbating to gay porn in there.

Can you share any of his redeeming qualities? I'm only getting: pot-head; rageaholic; absent father; porn addict; chronic masturbator; and (likely) gay-in-denial cheater. Why are you still married to this loser? 

17. The sad and most frustrating thing about all of this is if he could just tell me the TRUTH - if he is gay in denial, and he would just tell me, I would forgive him and honestly be his best friend.

Given what you've shared, honesty just isn't a language your troubled husband understands. 

18. I know it would be so so heartbreaking to hear it from his own mouth but. We have two children together and I just want to enjoy the rest of my life and let him enjoy his. On the other hand of that is what if I’m wrong? I don’t want to throw away our relationship if its no big deal and it’s all just me being a big paranoid mess.

If I may be so bold, he seems like a pretty sh*tty husband, father, and human being even before considering the gay thing. You are not paranoid nor overeacting my friend. You are simply questioning his completely absurd versions of recent events, namely his cheating on you with other men. You and your children deserve so much better. Dump this loser. 

Please feel free to come back, reply, and/or post again. You're not alone. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (January 3, 2023 12:35 pm)

 

January 4, 2023 5:23 am  #2088


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

The thing is my mind is so scrambled with all of his lies and gaslighting that I’m even questioning if the sauna thing happened AT ALL. I mean before then I found a straight dating profile which I believe to be his. It was only when I approached him about this that he came out with the whole sauna story.

I’m now wondering if he’s totally made the WHOLE story up and was actually with a female but he’s made this terrible story up to become the victim.

But then I don’t know what straight man would prefer his wife to question his sexuality rather than just know the truth - that’s he’s cheating with women.

He’s also shown interest in my lesbian cousin - asking me how she knew she was a lesbian. If she would ever have a sex change. Things like that.

Gay-in-denial or cheating with women, it’s definitely one or the other. Something isn’t right and hasn’t been for a while.

What are your thoughts on this?

If anyone else has a similar story please get in touch with me. I could do with a chat. I can’t tell my family anymore because they are just so off him now anyway.

Gosh I really feel mad right now.

Last edited by Pinklady (January 4, 2023 5:25 am)

 

January 4, 2023 11:18 am  #2089


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

Thank you for sharing Pink. For those who are new to this thread, Pink is questioning her husband's sexuality because he admitted to getting a naked massage in a sauna from a younger man after which he ejaculated then claimed it was sexual assault. Let's not forget this little nugget he added post-massage: 

"After his sauna experience, he didn’t want intercourse with me because he wanted to get tested for aids and STDs in case “the man had a cut on his finger and his blood entered my...anus.”

This suggests your husband was penetrated during his gay sauna hook up, so I reckon he was the bottom. It's quite common for the self-hating closeted husband to spiral like this, particularly after getting caught (and challenged) by his wife. So he'll often claim it was sexual assault, as your husband did, to paint himself as the victim. This avoids the obvious question: "Why the f*ck were you naked, getting a naked massage, and in a private room with a younger man at a gay sauna?" So why do I believe your husband is gay-in-denial (GID)? Because he immediately thought "AIDS" after cheating on you, and closeted/questioning men associate "AIDS" with gay men, not straight women. Your husband is a spectacularly bad liar. Turning now to your latest post: 

1. The thing is my mind is so scrambled with all of his lies and gaslighting that I’m even questioning if the sauna thing happened AT ALL. I mean before then I found a straight dating profile which I believe to be his. It was only when I approached him about this that he came out with the whole sauna story.

I think we should focus on the cheating and lies rather than his sexuality. If you define love and marriage as honesty and monogamy, then he's clearly failing on both counts. So what now? I'd suggest you start journaling all of this, perhaps by creating your own thread here. This will allow to keep track of his lies/evasions/omissions while also sharing your own feelings. As I've shared in previous posts, I also believe you should find a qualified therapist for individual (not couples) counselling.  

2. I’m now wondering if he’s totally made the WHOLE story up and was actually with a female but he’s made this terrible story up to become the victim.

Regardless, he was clearly cheating on you and will likely do it again. Is this how you define marriage? 

3. But then I don’t know what straight man would prefer his wife to question his sexuality rather than just know the truth - that’s he’s cheating with women. He’s also shown interest in my lesbian cousin - asking me how she knew she was a lesbian. If she would ever have a sex change. Things like that.

While I don't have a lot of information here, he's likely interested in her coming out journey. He might also be gaging your reaction to gay/lesbian people, perhaps in preparation for his own coming out. But again this is just speculation on my part. 

4. Gay-in-denial or cheating with women, it’s definitely one or the other. Something isn’t right and hasn’t been for a while. What are your thoughts on this?

I agree. Once again, I think he had a consensual hook up with a man at a sauna, completely panicked ("I have AIDS!!!") when you challenged him, then concocted some bullsh*t sexual assault narrative to distract you from the main issue: he went to a naked sauna, met a younger man, the two of them went to a private room at the sauna, this younger man touched him, then your husband ejaculated. These are all his words by the way.    

5. If anyone else has a similar story please get in touch with me. I could do with a chat. I can’t tell my family anymore because they are just so off him now anyway. Gosh I really feel mad right now.

Feel free to post here as much as you like. But again I'd urge you to start your own thread as not many straight spouses post on this thread. Thanks again for posting Pink and keep coming back. Be well! 

 

January 7, 2023 8:39 am  #2090


Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions

“The sad and most frustrating thing about all of this is if he could just tell me the TRUTH - if he is gay in denial, and he would just tell me, I would forgive him and honestly be his best friend. I know it would be so so heartbreaking to hear it from his own mouth but We have two children together and I just want to enjoy the rest of my life and let him enjoy his.”

Hi, Pink - this is me too, and I’ve been wishing that for six years now. And very often  feeling very alone in the marriage for about sixteen or even twenty years now - Sean said it here. He is incapable of that honesty. We don’t get it - we’d be capable. But whatever he’s internalized, whatever stories he’s told himself…he can’t do it. Not while he’s married to you.

I’m finally on my way out. (After a gsy stslker boyfriend who sent me dirty pics where they were playing with GIDH’s wedding band. (“It was a one-time mistake. You are everything to me.”) Multiple burner cells and a lot of BS.) And he is blaming me, angrily and aggressively: “YOU are the one putting the nail in the coffin” etc.

Like a lot of women here he is “my best friend” - charming, smart and otherwise caring. But it’s a careful constructed facade. And at least in my experience, it’s not budging. Not while I’m around; and maybe never. But my life counts too - and for everyone’s well being, including what I am modeling for the kids, I need to insist on that, and go, now.

I’m going to say it: please don’t waste too much time avoiding the reality that is most likely in front of you, no matter what he says. His actions are different than his words. You can’t do his homework for him, but you need to do yours. For the kids, too. Sending a lot of love - Rose

 

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