Thank you for sharing Gwen. In reply: 

1. Sean - I, too, want to be clear that sexual abuse and sexual assault happen. My heart goes out to the victims.

100% agree. 

2. But I want to provide evidence of your observations.  I remember this so clearly, like it was yesterday. After my 1st son was born (4 months old and three years into the marriage), I visited my husband in Chicago, where he was working ( he travels 60-70%), and we enjoyed the Christmas holiday with him.

It's very common for the closeted husband to travel frequently or live/work in another city. This makes it easier for him to lead a double life. 

3. He came home one month later, and something was off! Our sex life decreased, and he wasn't emotionally the same (detached).

This happened in my marriage after I'd had sex with another man. I could no longer "pretend" that I was physically attracted to women nor perform sexually with my (then) wife. 

4. Fast forward to two years later, he was forced to tell me about a sexual assault that happened to him in Chicago.

This follows a common pattern: namely a cheating husband is forced to admit he's having sex with men because he has an STD, his lover threatens to out him, or his wife finds proof of cheating. 

5. He says he met some guys at the apartment pool and invited them to watch a football game the following week. Then someone drugged him, stole his money, and sexually assaulted him.

Bullsh*t. I reckon he had to tell you why he'd caught an STD/STI and then spun the story into a sexual assault narrative to look like a victim. This distracts his wife from asking questions about his sexuality and cheating while making her feel like she has to save him. 

6. He only told me about the incident because he discovered he had an STD.

Let's just call this what it is: a cheating husband was having sex with men and caught an STD. 

7. I'm ok and healthy.

Glad to hear it. 

8. This happened over ten years ago. I now believe this was the start of our problems.

I reckon your problems started when you married a distant, dishonest, and sexually confused man. If I were a gambling man, I'd bet that he's been cheating on you the entire time he's lived/worked in Chicago. As I've often written, cheating is like an iceberg, meaning 9/10ths often remains under water. While I'm not a mental health professional, I strongly believe the STD incident back in 2012 wasn't the start of your problems, it was more likely the beginning of the end of your denial phase. It was when both you and your husband were faced with irrefutable proof he was having sex with men. I'm so sorry you've been struggling with all of this for a decade. You and your children deserve better than an absent, cheating husband/father.    

9. Starting in 2018, he met a guy in the gym (Bill) that just so happened was gay and married to a man. My husband starts to hang out with him and tells me that he is really good friends with him and his husband. He says I shouldn't be concerned because Bill is committed to his husband.  However, during one of our intimate pillow talk times, he tells me, "whatever happens, he will always come home to me." Early in 2020,  we ended up in counseling because of this friendship, and I knew it was more than he admitted.

I agree. 

10. However, my husband convinces our Marriage Therapist that he is just friends with Bill. At the end of 2020, I felt neglected for years and proposed to my husband to have an open marriage because I met someone at work. He says yes and admits that he has feelings for Bill. In some ways, I felt relieved to know I was always right.

Question: has your husband admitted to a sexual affair with Bill (and perhaps Bill's husband)? Given what you've shared in previous posts, there is little doubt in my mind that Bill is his long-term lover. 

11. Fast forward to the end of 2022, I decided this was not the life that I wanted for me. I didn't get married to have an open marriage. The betrayal is too much to carry, and I want to honor my values and feelings. I have officially hired an Attorney to end this marriage. 

Thanks for sharing and good luck my friend. If anyone wants to listen to two podcast interviews where we discuss at length the issue of "sexual abuse/assault made me gay", click the links below: 

S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath
S5 Ep 5: A Former Closeted Narcissist in Recovery Answers Your Questions - OurPath

If any straight spouses have questions for a gay ex-husband, please feel free to post them below. 

Last edited by Sean01 (December 13, 2022 12:59 pm)

Thanks Gwen. This gay-in-denial (GID) logic always befuddles me: 

You are right. He's [husband] had this relationship with [gay friend/lover] Bill for a long time. Yes, my husband has admitted that he's had oral sex with Bill. I don't believe it. At this point, I don't really care. We haven't been intimate since 2020. In early 2020, I made last-minute plans to go to Cleveland to attend an event with my husband. Guess who was there too!?!  He said Bill was visiting friends near Cleveland and decided to attend in the same event.

What always confuses me is the f*cked up GID logic that: 

- Jerking to gay porn isn't really cheating (wrong)
- Pathologically dishonest husbands claiming sexual assault by another man somehow cancels out the glaring inconsistency that a self-identified straight husband/father was hanging out in some gay sauna, gay cruising park, or adult video store (erm why the hell was he there to start with?)
- Receiving blowjobs from another man doesn't make a man gay (bullsh*t)
- Sexually neglecting a straight wife is somehow always her fault (complete horsesh*t)  

I also had to laugh that your closeted husband felt the need to add a (very macho/manly) football watch party footnote to his Chicago threeway. Delusional doesn't even start to describe the lengths to which these closet cases go to remain emotionally straight while being so obviously (sexually) gay. It's madness and you're right to separate/divorce my friend. Clearly this man has lost touch with reality. 

Hope that doesn't sting too much and wishing you good luck with the divorce proceedings. As I've seen time and time again, straight spouses make spectacular recoveries once these damaged men are out of their lives. I can't wait to read about you dating/marrying a man who growls when you walk into the room. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (December 13, 2022 1:57 pm)

Sean - Thank you! 

BakerPurple,
  Sean says that one reason your spouse may be quitting his job is to "keep you financially trapped."  But if he's pretty sure you're going to initiate divorce there's another reason your husband may be quitting his job now: the less he makes the less child support he pays if you divorce. 

Thank you for writing Jewels. In reply: 

1. I’ve been reading through these threads for a while and wasn’t sure where to post.  I am in the vortex of the mindf*ck and need some advice. 

I'm so sorry you're struggling my friend, particularly during the holidays. 

2. Here’s some backstory: I have been married to my husband for 24 years and we have 3 children, the last of them graduated high school this year and moved away to college. 

Understood. If you're in your mid 40s or early 50s, in my experience this is when most closted/questioning husbands start to (overtly) cheat on their wives with men, particularly when you're empty-nesters.  

3. I have known for a long time that he has a same sex attraction...

Given the wording "same sex attraction" am I safe to assume that you're from a religious/Christian background? 

4. ...and I confronted him about it I 2015 due to some behaviors (getting handsy with male friends) that were getting more frequent and public.  He admitted he was attracted to men back then but didn’t think he could ever act on the attraction. 

Question: can you be more specific about "handsy"? I reckon he was already "acting" on his true sexuality if he was feeling up male friends and work colleagues seven years ago. As I've shared in many previous posts, these "behaviours" often represent just the visible tip of the iceberg. Gay-in-denial (GID) husbands often get caught because they're doing so much outside of their marriages that getting caught pink-handed is sometimes inevitable. So what's my point? In my experience, 9/10ths of a closeted/questioning dad's cheating often remains underwater...meaning he gets caught once but much remains hidden/undisclosed. On an unrelated note, if there has been tension between mom and dad for the past seven (7) years, most adolescent kids pick up on it and are often aware of dad's cheating. And why? Because they discover dad's hidden online life and yet keep it from mom for fear of provoking a break up. Food for thought.    

5. I offered to let him explore if he needed to, not wanting to be in a marriage with a closeted man who might come out later and he declined.  In May of this year, my husband kept “jokingly” saying we need to invite a particular male friend of ours for a sleepover.  This lead to us having a threesome with him and eventually deciding to open up our marriage.  This past summer we played with another couple and my husband had his first interaction with a man and it was like Pandora’s box was opened. 

Smart. I believe you're the 10th straight spouse I've interacted with who allowed and/or participated in swinging. Questions: 

a. Can you describe what exactly happened during the "interaction"? 
b. Would it be safe to say your husband enjoyed the "interaction"? 

While I'm not a mental health professional, most of the straight spouses who swing or participate in threesomes are horrified to see (first-hand) just how much their husbands enjoy having sex with men. In fact, their closeted/questioning husbands appear to enjoy sex with men much more than having sex with their wives. Please feel free to confirm if this was your experience.   

6. In the beginning it was like a honeymoon period. We talked all the time and had frequent sex, although there was always a realistic dildo involved.  He was very insistent that all of our explorations be done together as a couple. 

My question is as follows: are your sexual needs/desires getting met during all of these explorations? This follows a common pattern: the wife suspects her husband is questioning/gay; she gives permission to open the marriage; he only appears interested in introducing a man to their consensual "play"; there is never any suggestion of introducing a woman because he isn't really interested in sex with women; a honeymoon period begins but it never results in (his) penis going into his wife's vagina (penis-in-vagina or "PIV" sex); toys are introduced making their sexual encounters more male-on-male in nature (she often pegs him); he often insists on watching gay porn during these sessions with his wife; she is horrified to see just how practiced and present he is with any (real world) male-on-male play such as passionately kissing or performing oral another man; she is more of an anchor, accesory, or masturbatory tool and never really feels satisfied as she strives to meet his every gay-like sexual need. Please let me know if any or all of this applies to you. 

7. Then 3 months ago he decided we could explore on our own and he has been seeing men exclusively.  He has completely checked out of our relationship. 

I'm so sorry this happened. You deserve better. By writing "he" decided, am I safe to assume that you didn't agree or perhaps weren't really consulted on this next step? 

8. There’s one man that he has been seeing locally regularly.  Last week he took off on a trip with a man he met on a gay dating app.

These are red flags, particularly if you haven't consented to any of this. I'd consult with a mental heath professional and/or read up on something called "gay adolescence", perhaps in Dr. Alan Downs excellent book "The Velvet Rage." I found this video although there is surprisingly little online about "adult gay adolescence." I myself experienced a boy-crazy, self-centred, impulsive "gay adolescent" period not unlike what you've described in your post. Forced to act like a straight male in my teen years, once I'd admitted to myself and others that I was gay and, most importantly, once I'd had real-world sex with a man, for a time I acted like a 15-year-old gay teen, but in a 40+ body. 
 
9. He insists he is bisexual, not gay and wants to remain married and not break up our family. 

Dr. Alan Downs refers to this as "splitting." I call it "mentally straight yet sexually gay." Your husband still identifies as a straight husband and father because he's played this role his entire life. There is also the very strong possiblity that your husband was raised in a church or home environment that saw homosexuality as sexually perverted. As such, it's just too daunting to come out when the people around him see same-sex relationships so negatively. While he still claims an attraction to women, his sexual expression is almost exclusively gay. Separation/divorce also suck and there are many financial and child custody issues to consider as well. In my limited experience, closeted/questioning husbands often split their lives in their 40s or 50s: they act like the doting/loving husband/father at home; the marriage is sexless; and yet he's pride-float gay while on vacation with a new (male) love interest in Key West, NYC, or San Francisco.   

10. He says he has has done sexual acts but not had penetration but I think he is lying. 

I agree and can only assume he did more in front of you during your threeway. If you've read my previous posts, it's quite common for the closted/questioning husband to come out slowly, almost incrementally. And by incremental, it's like he's falling down the stairs of his heterosexuality while desperately clinging to every straight step and "bro" banister along the way. So what's my point? The gay-in-denial (GID) husband can't just accept he was born gay, is attracted to men, and is not attracted to women. To do so would mean ending his marriage while also risking the rejection of his wife, family, and community. So he watches gay porn but claims he's just "curious." He had gay sex in college but has to frame it as assault. Later, yes he explored swinging but only with his wife in the room. The final stage is to admit having gay sex but (still clinging to that straight banister) he doesn't kiss, perform oral sex on others, and there was never penetration. I re-frame these excuses as a more g-rated example. Your husband is doing the equivalent of saying he's been frequenting the same bakery for years "but only to sniff the cookies and buy water." I reckon he's been burying his face in the rainbow cake for years, most recently with his new travel "friend."  

11. I feel like I’m just in the way and getting fed bullshit constantly.  I asked him to move out today, I can’t take the secrecy, lies, and him having control any longer.

Understood. 
 
12. Is he gay in denial? 

Yes. If you need confirmation, call his boyfriend. 

13. Why does he insist on saying that he is bisexual?  I would think a bisexual person with a pass to explore would be seeking out both genders for sex.

Bisexuals can be monogamous, but with both male and female partners. We often mistake "bisexual" with "promiscuous" which is incorrect. Given the facts you've presented above, clearly your husband is having sex with this new boyfriend. If he's having sex with men without your consent and no longer has sex with you, then he is both a cheater...and perhaps more homosexual than bisexual. 

14. Should I seek the advice of an attorney?  We have not even discussed divorce yet.  I don’t know what next steps should be, but I do feel I am delaying the inevitable. 

Again I'm very sorry you've been put in this situation. If you have indeed decided to separate/divorce, yes I would suggest consulting with a qualified divorce attorney. Here are some other suggestions: 

- Find a mental health professional, preferably with LGBTQ experience or experience with gay/straight relationships, so you can share all of this with a qualified professional. A good resource may be the local LGBTQ centre in your city or state for referrals. 
- Know that couples counselling, while often inevitable, rarely helps with gay/straight marriages as the counsellor most often gets manipulated to side with the "long suffering" closeted spouse. Individual counselling is more effective in my opinion, particularly during periods of separation. 
- Create your own thread here so the kind members can help. 
- See this forum's "First Aid Kit"
- Share all of this with a trusted friend or family member, preferably someone who is removed from your marriage. 

These podcasts might be helpful: 

S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath
S5 Ep 5: A Former Closeted Narcissist in Recovery Answers Your Questions - OurPath

I would also be prepared for another "honeymoon" phase during which your husband might beg to be taken back then act like the perfect straight husband/father. Few relationships just end abruptly. Most couples go through the discovery-conflict-reconciliation cycle 5-7x before separating, then finally divorcing. So I'd be prepared for what some describe as the "mindf*ck" or what I call his "pink merry-go-round."  If your husband claims an illness, hints at suicide, or breaks out some vague male abuse history, then I reckon you're in the final stage of this cycle before divorce. The above podcast interviews might be helpful. 

Please keep coming back my friend. You're not alone. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (December 27, 2022 11:30 am)