Thanks for posting Janey. In reply:

1. I had a chat with him last night and he said he’s always had delayed ejaculation and Ed and I should love him as he is. I feel guilty for even raising it again.

This is problematic and perhaps something you should discuss with a qualified therapist. This smacks of something called "blame shifting." No one should feel guilty about discussing important issues like sex with their partner.  

2. After years of no sex and when we did have sex being told I’m too ‘wet’ or too ‘tight’ I started to feel horribly unattractive. Even though I’d had lots of men before with no issues he made me feel I’m the problem abs has projected issues onto me.

I'm a gay man and the first sentence turned me on...so maybe he's the problem!? You deserve better my friend. A loving husband: apologises for hurting his wife; owns his mistakes/errors; and works like hell to change. 

3. I know it’s hopeless trying to get him to come out but is it worth a final try? Are there any tips about how to give safe space for someone to talk?

I think your heart is in the right place my friend, but perhaps it's time to start thinking with your head...meaning logically. Based on my time here and years of exchanges with straight spouses, I estimate that fewer than 10% of straight spouses actually hear, "Yes I'm gay and I'm just not physically attracted to women." Regardless of your husband's sexuality, you appear to be in a sexless and unhappy marriage. Ask yourself this: is this man capable of changing? Feel free to post again. Be well. 

Pinklady, I found it helpful to focus not on whether my husband was gay but to evaluate whether what was going on in our marriage was what T wanted in a marriage.. My conclusion was "Whatever he is he isn't for me."

My situation was different because he had come out to me as "gay" and moved out and then when the man he was in love with cooled their relationship he began dating women. In case his next step would be to  try to come back to me because no divorce had been filed I needed to sort out where I was with that possibility.

Having been married for 30+ years I realized that I was happier without him than with him. There had not been conflict but there had not been ANYTHING for many.years. My plants have certain requirements  to live and my soul was not getting what I needed from him. At best he loved me like a sister. More recently it had been more as an appliance that did chores.

My parents were married for 60+ years of what I termed "Holy Deadlock", to end only when "Death did its part".. If you have children, is this the atmosphere you want them to grow up in?  It undoubtedly was a contributory factor in my low expectations for marriage and a source of my biting wit. 

Is this what you want for yourself?"


 

Thank you for writing Pink, Abby and Janey. 

Pink posted: 

1. Thank you Sean. Sorry for my very long post before. I don’t see my situation as being that bad, but I’m wondering if that’s because he’s told me that. When I tell him what he’s said and done to me over the years he says that didn’t happen or he doesn’t remember it the same way I do. Or he just outright accuses me of making it up.

"Bad" is a largely relative term and, as Abby shared, it's up to each of us to determine whether to stay in a relationship or leave. However, based on the information you've provided, I do believe you are in an emotionally abusive relationship with a severely disordered husband. Again I'd urge you to determine if you are indeed in an abusive relationship by finding a qualified therapist and/or perhaps reaching out to a group for abused wives. This link may help. 

2. This may sound foolish of me but I’m not ready to give up yet, I do give as good as I get (I try to) and at the moment I’m just pretending everything is going to get better. I just feel I need to know if I’ve been used all these years as a cover for him.

That's fair but, thinking of your children, I wouldn't wait too long to address what's fundamentally wrong with your husband and your relationship. 

3. That would explain the toxicity of our relationship. I guess it’s like closure. If he is gay in denial I really want to help him come out...

That's never going to happen my friend. I've been exchanging posts with straight wives here for years and I have yet to encounter a straight wife who lovingly participated in her husband's coming out. The relationship is just too fundamentally unsound. It would be like a kind bartender (the straight spouse) trying to help an alcoholic client (the gay husband) stop drinking, or perhaps like the friendly casino dealer (again her) attempting to help the chronic gambler (him) stop gambling. So what's my point? From the beginning, the closeted husband / straight spouse relationship is often based upon a lie: namely the husband claiming he's straight. While they both want this lie to be true and often spend decades pretending it's true, the closeted husband's porn habits and cheating (with men) eventually break through their collective denial. So they're at a crossroads. Moreover, he's painted himself into a pink closet corner with decades of lies, emotional abuse, and cheating. Based on my exchanges here, he will only come out under the following two cirumstances. Scenario 1: while still married he eventually finds a new boyfriend, secretly starts building a life with this new man, and then unceremoniously dumps his wife in an "I've moved on" type of way. Scenario 2: he continues to claim that he's bisexual, shifts all the blame onto his unsuspecting straight wife, somehow convinces himself and others that he had no other choice but to leave the marriage because she was the toxic partner, and then starts dating...another woman! He's so trapped in his closet that he simply cannot take any responsibility for his dysfunctional marriage because to do so would force him to address his sexuality issues. He convinces himself that his wife is the cause of their sexual dysfunction and relationship issues. He then uses this as evidence he needs to exit the marriage, but only after he's scouted out another straight spouse victim. So what's my point? Based on my exchanges with straight spouses over the years, the closeted gay husband only fully comes out once separated and divorced from the woman he lied to for decades.        

4. ...so that we can both move on with our lives. It unsettles me to think we could break up and his secret is still safe. This isn’t fair on anyone especially our children. I mean, they deserve to know the real identity of their own daddy.

I'd also think about whether it's fair for your children to be raised by a father who routinely abandons them, lies to their mother, is clearly struggling with his own sexuality, and was recently arrested for domestic abuse. 

5. This seems so cruel how anyone could do this. I know you’ve said it’s not intentional, but for him to hide things proves he knows he’s doing wrong.

Fair point. 

6. So that kind of does make it intentional in my opinion. I feel like I’m going round in circles but I want to keep posting as this forum is helping me. I really hope more gay spouses have the heart to come out like you did.

Take all the time you need my friend. 

Janey wrote: 

1. Sean - I can’t thank you enough, This thread is so helpful! Pink lady I have the same issues as you. Gaslighting is common place in these relationships it seems and I too often find myself reeling thinking is it me or is it him?

I'd offer you the same advice as I offered Pink namely: determine if you are indeed in an abusive relationship by finding a qualified therapist and/or perhaps reaching out to a group for abused wives. This link may help. 

2. All I can offer is that your spouse can’t  tell you how bad your situation is or how you should feel as you are the one living it. I often get told the same ‘he gives and gives and can’t give anymore’. As though I’m some kind of drain on his energy - it exhausts me!

I'm so sorry you're suffering my friend. 

3. I agree closure would help me move on too. If he’d just say ‘I’m gay’ then at least I’d have a choice to make. At the moment it’s only fence sitting worrying ‘what if’.

That "coming out" Disney moment ain't never going to happen my friend. Best to determine what you want in a husband and, as Abby wrote, determine: "Whatever he is, he isn't for me." 

Good luck everyone. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (November 25, 2022 1:29 am)

Thank you for writing Pink. In reply: 

1. Hey everyone just thought I’d pop on and update you all on my situation. I can’t make sense of it myself. I had a good few days where I felt strong and now I feel like crap again.

I've often referred to this as his "pink merry-go-round" and I'm so very sorry you're suffering. I would again urge you to attend individual counselling or seek out a women's group to determine if you're in an emotionally abusive relationship.  

2. My husband and I were both unwell with flu last week so he took all week off work. Prior to that we had a conversation where I told him there was something seriously wrong with our relationship and I wanted out if nothing gets better. Just like the flick of a switch, he turned all calm and gentle towards me and our two children.

This is actually quite common in abusive and/or gay-straight relationships. The straight spouse threatens separation/divorce and a honeymoon period begins. Unfortunately, the honeymoon is usually short-lived. 

3. My confusion began because I just thought last week you were thus angry man and now all of a sudden JUST LIKE THAT you are Mr Nice Guy.

This sounds like an act but, again, I'd urge you to review all of this with a mental health professional.

4. I think that proves he knows exactly what he is doing. His angry outbursts are only needed when he feels the need to keep me in line or where he wants me.

In my opinion, using anger and violence (his recent arrest) to keep you in line suggest you're in an abusive relationship.  

5. Anyway the other day me and my husband were chatting and he said to me that he has a feeling I think he’s gay.

Well I don't know of many straight husbands who have sex with other men in all-male naked saunas. 

6. He then went on to tell me that he knows he isn’t gay because when he looks at women he “rates” them, as in “yes she’s my type, no she isn’t my type.” He also claims his mother said “you have always liked girls, son”.

As I shared in a recent post, most closeted/questioning husbands are just constitutionally incapable of being honest about their attraction to men. This is why men like us marry women, as a form of cover. I reckon it's time to stop looking to your husband (and his mum) for clarity on this subject. If your husband: has sex with men; cannot perform penis-in-vagina sex with you; watches gay porn; has a boyfriend-like relationship with a work or gym friend; and obsesses about everything "gay"; then there is a very good chance he's gay in denial (or GID). 

7. Is it not weird that he felt the need to explain how he knows he’s straight? I mean, wouldn’t he just laugh it off?

Absolutely! 

8. The thing is a few months back he told me how the builders and scaffolders at the road side ogle women and share their “type”. My husband of course said he doesn’t include himself in these type of conversations because he doesn’t have a “type”. Fast forward to now that’s changed.

New rule: every time he talks about sex/sexuality, just assume he's lying. 

9. The “I rate women” comment bothered me because I don’t think it’s something a man should naturally share with his wife anyway. I mean it’s made me feel like crap! So I told him this yesterday. He didn’t like that it bothered me, shouted at me, called me a C*nt and reduced me to tears AGAIN.

This man is not a good husband and, most importantly, this isn't the type of relationship you want to pattern for your children. 

10. Only 4 days ago he asked if I had someone else because I had changed my WhatsApp picture and been on Messenger!! I am so confused.

This sounds like classic projection: meaning when a guilty cheater of a spouse claims you're cheating as well. 

11. I guess the reason I’m sharing this is to see if anyone thinks this still means he could be a closeted gay. I’ve definitely been thrown off the scent and I’m beginning to think I’ve got it all wrong.

He ticks most of my boxes for a "closeted husband" namely: has admitted to having sex with a man (although he claims it was an assault); constantly talks/obsesses about the gay thing; no PIV sex with his wife because he can't perform; angry/abusive when he doesn't get his way; and watches and masturbates to gay porn.  

12. Thank you all - I really feel like you guys are all I’ve got right now.

Setting aside the gay thing for a moment, based on what you've shared this sounds like a toxic, abusive, and highly dysfunctional relationship. Your husband is prone to angry outbursts, has cheated on you (likely multiple times), and regularly abandons you and your children when challenged. Your mum-in-law also sounds like a black belt enabler who consistently sides with her son. Straight couples have often divorced for less my friend. I'd recommend getting individual counselling and/or reaching out to a women's group to determine if you're in an abusive relationship. By all objective standards, this is not a good husband nor father. 

Good luck my friend. 

Thank you for the update Pink. In reply: 

1. Thanks again Sean for your kind words.

My pleasure. 

2. We are planning on spending Christmas separately. Him at his mums and me and the children at my aunts.

This is perhaps for the best. At least you and your children can now enjoy the holidays without having to walk on eggshells around your troubled, questioning husband.  

3. His reason being “I cannot be around your family now they know I was sexually assaulted by a man - it’s embarrassing and I don’t know what they think of me now.”

This is a red flag and perhaps something you should discuss with a mental health professional. A good husband/father would make his wife and family a priority whereas it appears he's more interested in protecting his fragile ego while also avoiding legitimate questions about his sexuality.

Let's now review his claims of sexual assault because this is a common narrative among questioning/closeted husbands. If I remember correctly, your husband; admitted to going to a naked male sauna; striking up a "manly" conversation with another man; getting a massage from this man; and claims this man raped him. Questioning and/or deeply closeted spouses often frame their first sexual experiences with the same sex as sexual assault. But why? Some closeted spouses simply cannot accept that they were willing participants because to do so would be to admit they are attracted to the same sex. Here are some common scenarios I've read about over the years: 

- I went to a gay bar, someone spiked my drink, and then assaulted me in the mensroom. 
- I went to a (gay cruising) park, two men held me down, and raped me. 
- I got drunk in college then my male roommate took advantage of me. 
- My wife was held down by our (female) nanny then the nanny kissed her. She then fought her off and fled the house. 

I want to make it clear that sexual abuse and sexual assault do happen. Any assault is barbaric, traumatizing for the victims, and is rightfully illegal. But things get muddled when pathologically dishonest spouses make claims of sexual assault when they are caught cheating. If your sexually confused husband claims he was assaulted at an age when he was legally able to give consent, ask him: 

1. Why would a self-identified straight man choose to go to a gay space (like a sauna, cruising park, or gay bar)?
2. How long were you in this gay space before the assault happened? 
3. Please describe the aggressor (age, height, weight, build etc) and the circumstances surrounding the assault.  
4. Please describe the assault and how you fought back and/or cried for help? 
5. What did you do immediately after the assault? 
6. Why aren't we pressing charges? 

Turning now to your husband Pink, if your husband answers the above questions as follows: 

1. Yes it's a gay sauna but I went with a (gay) friend or I was just curious. 
2. I was there for two hours before the assault happened. 
3. He was a bit older and less muscular than me. 
4. I didn't fight back nor cry out because I was scared. 
5. I spent another hour at the sauna, then left. 
6. I don't want to press charges. 

then I think he's lying. Based on our previous exchanges, your husband went to a gay sauna looking for sex, had consensual sex with another man, suffered a post-orgasmic meltdown, and knew he couldn't go to the police without his assault narrative falling completely apart. I reckon he's nervous about seeing your family because they too are calling bullsh*t on this whole story. Fair comment? 

4. My family don’t even welcome him anymore after they know what’s been going on and how I’ve been feeling.

Damn right! I think we can all agree that your husband is deeply closeted, abusive, and mentally ill. He doesn't want to be around them because they're not buying into his bullsh*t excuses.  

5. I hope you all have a peaceful Christmas. We’re all in this together I guess. Best wishes everyone xx

That's very kind of you Pink. Again I would urge you to get professional counselling and/or reach out to an association to determine if you're in an abusive relationship. Given what you've shared, this man is neither a good husband nor father. You and your children deserve better. 

Happy Christmas and good luck.