Thank you, Sean. Also, in listening to the podcast, I want to say- I dont agree with the idea that you are doing this to feed a narcissistic desire.  I am actually well versed (unfortunately) in the ways of the narcissist. (So well versed, you would think I would be able to see its impact in my married life).  This is too tedious and too repetitive for you to get some high from that. You wouldnt keep doing it for 6+ years- you would go find something else more "on the stage" or visable to the world. I can tell you feel remorse for what you did to your wife and family.  I almost wonder if this is a penance you have given yourself and hope you arent beating yourself up too much. I want you to know how helpful this is. I know it doesn't excuse what you did in your own life, but I think a lot of us spouses would love to know that our partner had done even a tiny bit of the introspection that you show here. Your compassion and patience for us - especially given that we all seem to be operating out of some type of closeted-husband-playbook and should be able to read prior posts without having to ask so many questions- is so so appreciated.  It does not feel like someone using our pain for their own gain as a narcissist would do. Even in its bluntness, It feels like understanding, a stern friend who cares, and a hug. 

Hi Sean and all, I’ve been reading through this topic for a few days now and I’ve finally decided to share my story. Sorry it’s a long one and I hope I don’t waste your time because I’m very unsure and maybe I’m just paranoid.

I met my partner and father of my two children when we were 18 and 19. We are now 30 and 31 so we’ve been together a fair amount of years before I ever suspected that he could be gay. When we met literally a few days in he did tell me he thought he was gay when he was a child. His mum told him on the way to school one day that his dad would send him to a prostitute if he didn’t loose his virginity by the time he turned 16. His mother clearly agreed with this or she was so controlled by his father she had to agree. Either way, they were worried he might be gay and so pressured him to like girls. When my partner was 15 his dad introduced him to a girl which would be his first girlfriend and the girl he lost his virginity with. He had two more short relationships with girls before he met me. Again, it was through his dad we met. His dad joined the company I was working for at the time and told me all about his son and how great he was so I added him on Facebook and asked to meet up. I pursued him. We had our first date in the cinema and he took me home afterwards, no kiss goodbye just a hug. I thought he was charming to not go in for a kiss. Now I’m not exactly unattractive and I have lots of male attention when I’m out. We dated for a few months before he basically moved into my dads house with me. I lost my mum to alcoholism when I was 12 so I lived with my dad and younger brother. During our early months together my partner told me how his ex gf was more like a friend to him but he noticed she gave him lots of attention and so he just went with it and got in a relationship with her. It ended because she had to move back to Brazil. He told me how she seemed innocent but she liked anal and was quite dirty in the bedroom. I wondered why he would tell me this. He has always been quite highly sexed always initiated sex with me and says I don’t initiate enough. In the beginning I found nuts mags so I had no reason to believe he was gay. He told me he liked babestation and Rosie jones the page 3 girl. Apparently I look like her he said. Anyway, our relationship was never great. He always loved sex tho and I’ve seen here most GID never initiate sex with their wives so I am unsure. 6 years ago I got pregnant with our son and he was very worried and anxious. His hair starting thinning he has alopecia. More arguments, more making up. 3 years later our daughter was born. He treated me like shit when I was pregnant with our daughter. Once she was born he said he had PND. took one anti depressant and said he felt better. Now looking back I’ve realised he’s been depressed ever since ouR daughter was born. Blames it on not providing enough as a man.

Now to the main point of the story.
Around last October he got incredibly depressed and was always angry and hateful towards me. Sat me down one night and said he had ED and was going to order some Cialis. So he did. Now looking back I realise this is when the sex dried up. He was no longer initiating. But if he was on cialis he would’ve been horny right?  I didn’t think anymore of it. I thought our sex life was ok but that’s all I knew. I don’t have a high sex drive anyway so wasn’t too bothered.

Then in January, he out of the blue accused me of texting other men and cheating on him. Says he found a text on my phone but couldn’t find it when I asked him to show me. He also accused me of being a lesbian. Being more like a man the way I argued with him. Told me I don’t show him enough love of affection. Said he was going to kill himself and it’ll be my fault.

Fast forward to April we argued again over silly stuff, he  went to his mums. Came back a few days later and we had the best sex ever. I felt so in love he made me feel
So wanted for a couple of months and then I noticed him pulling away. On two occasions I saw him look over me to check I was sleeping, before going into th bathroom for a while with his phone. When I questioned him on this he denied it outright and accused me of being paranoid. Said he is constipated and takes awhile. Another occasion i noticed he had used baby oil while in th bathroom. I don’t know if this is relevant but I’m trying to remember details.

Anyway the great sex and loving attention from him soon dried up. A few weeks passed and he said he wanted to give up smoking and to do this he’s going to the sauna to sweat out the toxins. During all of this I had my suspicions he was having an affair whether virtual or not I didn’t know. So I starting digging. I found an Ashley Maddison account but I have no proof it’s him. The profile picture certainly looks like him even with a blurry filter. The profile is a straight man looking for a woman. At this point I had no reason to believe he’s gay but straight and looking for a discreet affair. I didn’t mention it to him. On the morning of sauna day, he got up for work and hour early while I was sleeping (to work out) and then went to work. Left work early to get to the sauna. Came home first packed bag had a shower. He seemed like a bag of nerves before he left. Anyway he went sauna, I made an Ashley Maddison account and message the account I’d found. “I know you’re cheating on me” I wrote.
When he got back from the sauna, he told me he had just been sexually assaulted by a man in the sauna. It happened like this although the story has changed a little over time. Suspicious.
Him and said man had a good “manly” chat. Seemed like a nice guy didn’t seem gay. Man offered him a massage and my partner agreed. Partner says in sauna all men go naked and he didn’t wanna look like a boy by keeping his trunks on. So he lied down on the massage bed naked. The man gave him a great massage but then proceeded to brush his dick a few times before moving near to his anus. My partner said he froze and couldn’t speak. After that he went for a swim. Then when he got home had a bath because he felt sick from th man’s hands being on him but didn’t wanna report him because they can’t do anything about it anyway. Pleaded with me not to tell anybody. Because they might think he’s gay. At this point I didn’t believe him because I thought he’d only made this story up because he knew I’d found his Ashley Maddison account. I thought he’d been with a prostitute and the sauna was a cover story. Before he got in the bath he took his bag upstairs (containing towel, trunks, sliders) was in the bathroom a while with the tap running then came downstairs and he said he wanted to throw away his trunks because he didn’t wanna be reminded of what happened at the sauna. While he was in the bath I check his trunks and they had semen in them. Just abit but it was definitely semen. I haven’t told him this bit.

Next day, I told him about the Ashley madison account. Swore he had no idea what I’m talking about. Left to go to his mums. Stayed there a few days. I thought I must have got it wrong and begged him back. He came home.

Few weeks later, I get up from my Sunday lay in, Walk into the toilet to catch him wanking to something on his phone. I wasn’t smart enough to demand to see what it was. At first he said nothing. Then he said a girl lifting her top. Then he asked “how do you know it weren’t a man?!” To then saying it was a girl on WhatsApp. Says he only does it when he’s feeling down. I was in the next room and he would prefer to wank?

He left me to go to his mums yet again. Came back a week later. Wanted to watch Jeffrey Dahmer. For those who don’t know, he’s a gay psychopath. Partner is never usually into these kind of films. Says it’s bad for his mental health. I’ve since touched on gay subjects and he got very defensive. “You think I’m gay. I’m not gay”

A few more points to mention:
He’s always been a dry kisser
Always initiated sex until the last year
Thought he was gay when he was a child
Always got on better with women
Dad is homophobic
Has narc tendencies
Has preferred anal at times with me but knows I don’t particularly like it
Says he felt weird after I was horny for 3 days and wanted him all the time
Keeps saying peoples environment can make them a certain way
Says he feels like there’s no going back with us
Been shaving pubic area
Wants to get fit
Grew a beard
“Hates” gays
He’s a gay magnet. Gays love him

Also since he came home he’s blamed me for not b img supportive enough and says there’s so much more to this but he doesnt trust me enough to tell me.

Thought please?

Sorry I have more to add

After his sauna experience, he didn’t want intercourse with me because he wanted to get tested for aids and stds in case “the man had a cut on his finger and his blood entered my partners anus”
Whilst we waited for the testing kit he would use the dildo on me (it’s the one we call Him, I use it when he’s not available) does this count as cuckolding? Like could it fulfill that fantasy. He knows my morals and knows I would never have sex with another man while he watched. Sorry I’m new to all of this!
When the testing kit arrived he didn’t hurry to do it. When he finally did it the results came back negative for stds and inconclusive for aids because he didn’t provide enough blood. He didn’t bother doing the aids test again to be sure.  Since then we’ve had sex twice, crappy mechanical type sex where he can’t wait to finish. Both times he woke me in the middle of the night for sex. Then apologies the next day for waking me. Why doesn’t he want to initiate sex when I’m awake? He says because he doesn’t wanna get rejected.

When I was pregnant (both times) he didn’t wanna have sex towards the end because “he didn’t wanna hurt the baby”. Is this something common among straight men or just an excuse to not have sex with me?

On one occasion during his Cialis days, he came home from work and wanted sex there and then. So we did as I was horny too. Half way through he went soft and said he could smell himself. Sorry for TMI. now I also smelt him and have never smelt this foul odour on him ever before. Are there any explanation for this foul smell? Or just a sweaty day perhaps?

I can’t actually believe I’m sharing all of this with total strangers but I hope I get some advice on this

Thank you for writing PinkLady and ImSoConfused. In response to PinkLady’s post:

1. I met my partner and father of my two children when we were 18 and 19. We are now 30 and 31 so we’ve been together a fair amount of years before I ever suspected that he could be gay. When we met literally a few days in he did tell me he thought he was gay when he was a child.

Red flag.

2. His mum told him on the way to school one day that his dad would send him to a prostitute if he didn’t loose his virginity by the time he turned 16. His mother clearly agreed with this or she was so controlled by his father she had to agree. Either way, they were worried he might be gay and so pressured him to like girls. When my partner was 15 his dad introduced him to a girl which would be his first girlfriend and the girl he lost his virginity with. He had two more short relationships with girls before he met me. Again, it was through his dad we met. His dad joined the company I was working for at the time and told me all about his son and how great he was so I added him on Facebook and asked to meet up. I pursued him. We had our first date in the cinema and he took me home afterwards, no kiss goodbye just a hug. I thought he was charming to not go in for a kiss. Now I’m not exactly unattractive and I have lots of male attention when I’m out. We dated for a few months before he basically moved into my dads house with me. I lost my mum to alcoholism when I was 12 so I lived with my dad and younger brother. During our early months together my partner told me how his ex gf was more like a friend to him but he noticed she gave him lots of attention and so he just went with it and got in a relationship with her. It ended because she had to move back to Brazil. He told me how she seemed innocent but she liked anal and was quite dirty in the bedroom. I wondered why he would tell me this.

More red flags. “I think I might be gay and I like anal.” Two strikes as we say here in North America.

3. He has always been quite highly sexed always initiated sex with me and says I don’t initiate enough. In the beginning I found nuts mags so I had no reason to believe he was gay. He told me he liked babestation and Rosie jones the page 3 girl. Apparently I look like her he said. Anyway, our relationship was never great. He always loved sex tho and I’ve seen here most GID never initiate sex with their wives so I am unsure. 6 years ago I got pregnant with our son and he was very worried and anxious. His hair starting thinning he has alopecia. More arguments, more making up. 3 years later our daughter was born. He treated me like shit when I was pregnant with our daughter.

What an *sshole.

4. Once she was born he said he had PND. took one anti depressant and said he felt better. Now looking back I’ve realised he’s been depressed ever since ouR daughter was born. Blames it on not providing enough as a man. Now to the main point of the story. Around last October he got incredibly depressed and was always angry and hateful towards me. Sat me down one night and said he had ED and was going to order some Cialis. So he did. Now looking back I realise this is when the sex dried up. He was no longer initiating. But if he was on cialis he would’ve been horny right? 

Not necessarily. While I’d consult with a qualified doctor, from what I understand erectile dysfunction (or “ED”) medication does not increase libido/sexual desire. I believe testosterone helps to restore sexual desire. The classic scenario is a closeted gay husband who takes copious amounts of Viagra but still can’t get an erection. This is because there has to be a spark of attraction so that the ED medication can work.

5. I didn’t think anymore of it. I thought our sex life was ok but that’s all I knew. I don’t have a high sex drive anyway so wasn’t too bothered. Then in January, he out of the blue accused me of texting other men and cheating on him. Says he found a text on my phone but couldn’t find it when I asked him to show me. He also accused me of being a lesbian. Being more like a man the way I argued with him. Told me I don’t show him enough love of affection. Said he was going to kill himself and it’ll be my fault.

I believe mental health professionals refer to this as “projection.” Projection is when the cheater accuses his innocent wife of cheating because he’s obsessing about his own bad behaviour.

6. Fast forward to April we argued again over silly stuff, he went to his mums. Came back a few days later and we had the best sex ever. I felt so in love he made me feel. So wanted for a couple of months and then I noticed him pulling away. On two occasions I saw him look over me to check I was sleeping, before going into the bathroom for a while with his phone. When I questioned him on this he denied it outright and accused me of being paranoid.

A brief honeymoon or "love bombing" stage followed by something called “gaslighting.” I'd read up on narcissism. 

7. Said he is constipated and takes awhile. Another occasion i noticed he had used baby oil while in the bathroom. I don’t know if this is relevant but I’m trying to remember details. Anyway the great sex and loving attention from him soon dried up. A few weeks passed and he said he wanted to give up smoking and to do this he’s going to the sauna to sweat out the toxins.

A gay sauna perhaps? I’d ask exactly where he’s going.

8. During all of this I had my suspicions he was having an affair whether virtual or not I didn’t know. So I starting digging. I found an Ashley Maddison account but I have no proof it’s him. The profile picture certainly looks like him even with a blurry filter. The profile is a straight man looking for a woman. At this point I had no reason to believe he’s gay but straight and looking for a discreet affair. I didn’t mention it to him. On the morning of sauna day, he got up for work and hour early while I was sleeping (to work out) and then went to work. Left work early to get to the sauna. Came home first packed bag had a shower. He seemed like a bag of nerves before he left. Anyway he went sauna, I made an Ashley Maddison account and message the account I’d found. “I know you’re cheating on me” I wrote.

This sounds like a gay sauna or bathhouse my friend.

9. When he got back from the sauna, he told me he had just been sexually assaulted by a man in the sauna. It happened like this although the story has changed a little over time. Suspicious. Him and said man had a good “manly” chat.

“Manly”? Strange choice of words.

10. Seemed like a nice guy didn’t seem gay. Man offered him a massage and my partner agreed. Partner says in sauna all men go naked and he didn’t wanna look like a boy by keeping his trunks on. So he lied down on the massage bed naked. The man gave him a great massage but then proceeded to brush his dick a few times before moving near to his anus. My partner said he froze and couldn’t speak. After that he went for a swim. Then when he got home had a bath because he felt sick from th man’s hands being on him but didn’t wanna report him because they can’t do anything about it anyway. Pleaded with me not to tell anybody. Because they might think he’s gay. At this point I didn’t believe him because I thought he’d only made this story up because he knew I’d found his Ashley Maddison account. I thought he’d been with a prostitute and the sauna was a cover story. Before he got in the bath he took his bag upstairs (containing towel, trunks, sliders) was in the bathroom a while with the tap running then came downstairs and he said he wanted to throw away his trunks because he didn’t wanna be reminded of what happened at the sauna. While he was in the bath I check his trunks and they had semen in them. Just abit but it was definitely semen. I haven’t told him this bit.

I’d focus on the sauna. I’d get the name, address, and website for this establishment. It’s most likely a gay sauna where men go to have sex with other men. I reckon this was your husband’s panicked response to having his first “real world” sexual experience with another man. Yes many closeted men watch gay porn or perhaps even wank off with other men online, but it’s entirely different to have skin-to-skin sex with another man. From what I understand, it’s quite common for the deeply closeted man to frame his first sexual experience with another man as non-consensual and/or as sexual assault.

11. Next day, I told him about the Ashley madison account. Swore he had no idea what I’m talking about. Left to go to his mums. Stayed there a few days. I thought I must have got it wrong and begged him back. He came home. Few weeks later, I get up from my Sunday lay in, Walk into the toilet to catch him wanking to something on his phone. I wasn’t smart enough to demand to see what it was. At first he said nothing. Then he said a girl lifting her top. Then he asked “how do you know it weren’t a man?!” To then saying it was a girl on WhatsApp. Says he only does it when he’s feeling down. I was in the next room and he would prefer to wank?

Strange.

12. He left me to go to his mums yet again. Came back a week later. Wanted to watch Jeffrey Dahmer. For those who don’t know, he’s a gay psychopath. Partner is never usually into these kind of films. Says it’s bad for his mental health. I’ve since touched on gay subjects and he got very defensive. “You think I’m gay. I’m not gay”

More red flags.

13. A few more points to mention: He’s always been a dry kisser; Always initiated sex until the last year; Thought he was gay when he was a child; Always got on better with women; Dad is homophobic; Has narc[narcissistic] tendencies; Has preferred anal at times with me but knows I don’t particularly like it; Says he felt weird after I was horny for 3 days and wanted him all the time; Keeps saying peoples environment can make them a certain way; Says he feels like there’s no going back with us; Been shaving pubic area; Wants to get fit; Grew a beard; “Hates” gays; He’s a gay magnet. Gays love him. Also since he came home he’s blamed me for not b img supportive enough and says there’s so much more to this but he doesnt trust me enough to tell me. Thought please?

Before going forward, I just want to focus on the facts. And those facts are:

• Your husband has cheated on you with another man.
• Your husband no longer has sex with you.
• Your husband is emotionally abusing you.
• Your husband has abandoned you and your children several times.

By all objective standards, this man is a cheater, a liar, and a bad husband/father. With regards to your above list, if you read through the other posts on this thread, most closeted gay husbands follow similar paths. Sex tapers off and then ends when he starts having sex with other men for two reasons: first, closeted gay cheaters fear giving their wives STDs/STIs during unprotected sex; and second, once he has acted on his homosexuality, this effectively kills his attraction to women.

14. Sorry I must add as well that there has been a lot of occasions during sex he would loose his erection then blame it on noise outside or worried the kids will hear. Sometimes I have to finish him with my hand. He also stops half way through sex to close the blinds. This has happened on many occasions aswell. When he started taking Cialis He was coming home from work full of beans like a teenager telling me “I feel like I’m 21 again!”  Then all of a sudden …. Depression again. It just doesn’t make sense. I can’t make out what’s going on. He comments on other men appearance “he must go to the gym” or “he’s a good looking guy”. There was this fit guy, a friend of a friend in our company one weekend. My partner kept making excuses to go off to the shops. It’s like he couldn’t stand to be around the fit guy. Then told me “ see I left u around that good looking guy because I trust you”

His inability to perform suggests he’s cheating and fears giving you an STD/STI and very likely can no longer pretend he has a sexual interest in women.

15. Once we were at the seaside and two hot guys pulled up in a car. Called my partner over and I asked him what they said. Apparently they asked him where the nearest nudist beach was? I can’t help thinking on this day I knew something looked different about my man. And now I’ve come to conclusion that he just looked gay. Walking around with his top off which his has never done. But this time he jus looked really gay.

Another pink flag.

16. In public he’s never loving. To be honest we probably look like friends when we’re out together. No spontaneous hugs or kisses. It’s always been like this. When i met him one of his close friends later turned out to be gay. He’s never mentioned this guy since he told me he came out. My family have said maybe he’s bi ? I have always seen him checking out women to the point it’s pissed me off  but could this be a cover?

Perhaps.

17. He talks about other men and what good family men they are. He said to me “if I left you, your life wouldn’t be totally fucker would it?” He spends a lot of time with the guy he works with. Went to work one day after vomiting all night and spent the day in the guys caravan watching lesbian boxing or something of the sorts. Said guy doesn’t have a family of his own. Could possibly be gay. Something about this job is keeping my partner there.

Another pink flag: a boyfriend-like relationship with a co-worker.

18. Constantly moaning about how women have it easier than men. Seems to hate women lately. When he does say he loves me it sounds fake “I love you sooo much” it’s like it’s not really coming from the heart and like he’s reading lines from a script. Talks about how it’s not looks that matter it’s personality and that men can’t find women easily unless they are “ballin” . But why does he need to talk about this when he’s with me anyway?

He sounds very mentally unstable. You and your children deserve better.
 
19. Sorry I have more to add. After his [gay] sauna experience, he didn’t want intercourse with me because he wanted to get tested for aids and stds in case “the man had a cut on his finger and his blood entered my partners anus.” Whilst we waited for the testing kit he would use the dildo on me (it’s the one we call Him, I use it when he’s not available) does this count as cuckolding? Like could it fulfill that fantasy. He knows my morals and knows I would never have sex with another man while he watched. Sorry I’m new to all of this!

Unknown. A fear of AIDS and/or STDs is a very common response when a deeply closeted man has sex with another man for the first time.

20. When the testing kit arrived he didn’t hurry to do it. When he finally did it the results came back negative for stds and inconclusive for aids because he didn’t provide enough blood. He didn’t bother doing the aids test again to be sure.  Since then we’ve had sex twice, crappy mechanical type sex where he can’t wait to finish. Both times he woke me in the middle of the night for sex. Then apologies the next day for waking me. Why doesn’t he want to initiate sex when I’m awake? He says because he doesn’t wanna get rejected.

Very strange.

21. When I was pregnant (both times) he didn’t wanna have sex towards the end because “he didn’t wanna hurt the baby”. Is this something common among straight men or just an excuse to not have sex with me? On one occasion during his Cialis days, he came home from work and wanted sex there and then. So we did as I was horny too. Half way through he went soft and said he could smell himself. Sorry for TMI. now I also smelt him and have never smelt this foul odour on him ever before. Are there any explanation for this foul smell? Or just a sweaty day perhaps? I can’t actually believe I’m sharing all of this with total strangers but I hope I get some advice on this.

It's quite common for the gay, closeted husband who recently cheated with another man to spontaneously initiate, but not finish, sex with his wife/girlfriend. He feels he has to “prove” to himself and his wife that he’s straight. While closeted men can talk a bit game and/or even initiate sex with their wives, they cannot maintain erections because they are no longer interested in penis-in-vagina (or PIV) sex. I’m very sorry this troubled man is ruining your life and the lives of your children. So what now? I’d suggest you get tested for STDs/STIs find a qualified counsellor for you (not a marriage counsellor). Going forward I would only have safe sex (meaning condoms) with your husband. And I’d suggest contacting “Our Path” and perhaps starting your own thread here.  

In response to ImSoConfused:

1.Yesterday was my birthday. Yesterday is when I called a divorce attorney. Happy freaking birthday to me.

I’m so sorry you’re struggling my friend.

2. I am not sure if you remember, but before I was married to my husband, my high school friend came to visit. He had just come out of the closet a few weeks before- and back in 2002, it was a different thing than it is now. It was a BIG DEAL. We didnt know gay people. It was almost a novelty.  For SOME reason, I had my friend staying at my then-boyfriend's house and not mine.  A few weeks after that, my gay friend and I went to an Indigo Girls concert (oh the irony, right?) and we were discussing gay-dars and for SOME reason I asked him, If I am ever dating someone who is gay, you would tell me, right?" That night my friend told me he had had an encounter with my boyfriend. I don’t remember if he wouldn’t tell me more or if I didn’t ask. But i do remember coming home and LASHING OUT at my boyfriend. And for some reason I let him talk me in to believing it was nothing- that he had bought a cock ring to use with me and didn’t know how to use it so he had asked my friend to help him put it on.

In what universe is it normal to ask your girlfriend’s gay best friend to help you put on a cock ring?

2. Obviously, to ME this wasn’t nothing, but the way he explained it, I was able to sorta move past it. I loved him. We were supposed to be flying to a wedding in 2 days. I didn’t want to show up alone….we just didn’t talk about it…. I feel so stupid. He proposed to me 6 months later- in front of my family. I wasn’t ready, but I wasn’t strong enough to say no.

It sounds like his lies and manipulations started decades ago.

3. Yesterday, I worked up the nerve to message my friend. I hadn’t spoken to him in 20 years. I told him I was in a crisis and that I needed clarity on what happened that night. We spent 2 hours on the phone. He sobbed a lot.  Apparently he has been riddled with guilt for years. Here is what I know: They hung out all night smoking and drinking with my boyfriends roommate. They were drunk. My boyfriend brought my friend sheets and blankets and my friend went to sleep on the couch. My boyfriend went upstairs to go to bed and came downstairs a few minutes later. Woke my friend up. Asked for help with the cock ring. My friend said they had to move to the kitchen because my boyfriends roommate (VERRRRY straight guy) was there. Said he didn’t know how to use it. My friend was a baby gay. He didn’t either. They figured it out together. Suffice it to say, that’s not where things stopped. They performed oral sex on each other. I am sure there was more before it got to that point. Had to have been. My friend kept saying that it is fuzzy. But I told him, I don’t need details. Were these sex acts performed? Yes. They were. You 100% know you performed oral sex on each other? Yes. And it was to completion. My boyfriend then went upstairs to bed. My friend went to sleep on the couch. They did not sleep in the bed together. Maybe you can blame what they did on alcohol. I can hear my husband say that now…. But apparently, the next morning in the cold light of day when everyone had slept everything off and there was no alcohol, my boyfriend came downstairs and asked my friend to come upstairs.  To our bed. To my bed. And he did. And they did things. And then my husband asked my friend to penetrate him. And he did.

Ok. So now we know: first, that your husband has been cheating on you for decades; second, we know that your husband is a bottom (meaning he prefers to be penetrated); and third, this seems to destroy his “I’m not gay because I’m just into blowjobs with other guys” bullsh*t defence.

4. And then I came home the next day and he had sex with me in that same bed. And lied by omission to me for weeks. And then lied again when I confronted him with the information I had about an “encounter.” And then lied and lied and lied to me for years. And then he lied to me for 20 years.  And he lied to me about it again 2 days ago.

Correct. So your husband is incapable of being honest about his attraction to men. So it's time to stop looking to him for the truth regarding his homosexuality. The facts speak for themselves. 

5. This is not a case of a man that doesn’t know who he is. I was so full of sympathy. I loved him and felt sad for him. This is someone who did this to me on purpose. He stole my life from me. In the end, all we have is time and he stole mine. He stole my chance at real happiness and put his own interests over my own.  He cared only about himself. He brought children into this- knowing he was lying to us all.

Correct.

6. I am not so naïve (now) as to think that he had one sexual encounter 20 years ago and then had a little dabble with oral sex (that he didn’t like and didn’t do to completion) with this guy this year and didn’t like it. If he can spend one night with my friend and do all he did, what is he doing with my neighbor over a year and a half.  7-8 times, yeah right. And what has he done all those years in between?  20 years of questions. I now know that he has been looking me in the eye and lying to me.  Not lying to himself and because of that cant help lying to me. He 100% knows he's been lying to me.

Again, correct.

7. I asked my friend, did he seem like he had done this before? My friend said, honestly, it was one of my first times. I wouldnt have known. But in my heart, I know that you dont just have a cock ring at your house. I would imagine you wouldnt ask someone to penetrate you on your first night trying something new.

Bingo. So clearly this "encounter" wasn't your (then) boyfriend's first time at the rodeo. It takes quite a lot of preparation to get ready for anal sex, namely douching. So if he was already experienced with gay sex back then, I can only imagine what he's been doing for the last 19 years.  

8. I cannot figure out where he is getting his fix. He is seriously not internet savvy. He doesn’t even know how to change his profile picture. He wouldn’t go to a video store because he is too well known in town. It would be all over the paper. He doesn’t understand how to use apps and his smart phone. His search history doesn’t show anything (and he would NEVER know how to delete things). I thought for a while that it only happened because it was so convenient- first instance, in his house with someone I delivered to him. Second instance in my house with a neighbor I introduced (any chance anyone can see why I feel so STUPID). Where else is this happening? Was he in my bed with this man?  It doesn’t change anything to know. I already know what I know. But I am searching for something to put my feet on. Some way to find solid ground. In the absence of truth, I want answers to stand on.

Time to stop playing detective because it's just delaying the inevitable. You already have enough proof my friend: decades of cheating; decades of lies; and decades of abuse/neglect. I reckon it’s time to stop searching and time to start acting.  

9. Nothing in my life is solid.  Nothing is true. I called my friend yesterday because I had therapy yesterday. I wanted to be able to go to her if I learned something. I am glad I did.  My therapist was so shocked she was basically on the floor.  I chose her because she has a specialty of working with LGBTQ people so I thought she would be a good resource. When I went in to meet with her I was numb. Barely reacting. Just retelling the story.  As I told her and watched her incredulity, I realized just how bad this was. Surely she has seen something like this before. No. She has not. Before this I thought he was a sad person. Now I think he is evil. But that cant be true because I loved him? But how can it not be true? No one can look someone in the eye and lie so easily and not be evil.

I’m so very sorry this man hurt you. You and your children deserve better. For me personally, I don’t consider these men evil. As previously closeted husband, I just believe I was disordered and deranged. I didn’t want to hurt my then wife/girlfriend. I was simply trapped in a closet that I had built since age 5/6 when I started lying about my sexuality. As I shared in my two “Our Path” interviews, honesty simply wasn’t a language I understood.  

10. I said to her, I am not mad at you or the other therapists, but I need you to know that I have felt gaslit by all of you too. I have all of this proof and he kept saying and you all kept saying 1 and 1 doesn’t have to equal 2 if he says that it doesn’t.  And I’m looking at it and so MINDF&CKED because how can it NOT.  I have felt CRAZY. She said (and I could tell she was probably not supposed to say this to me and was trying not to breach some kind of ethical thing), “I need to tell you that I am trained to not put words in other people’s mouths. I am trained to accept that what people are telling me is the truth and how to work with that truth, maybe to help them understand the truth better. How to work and deal with the truth. But I want to tell you that if I were having this conversation with my sister or my best friend, I would be saying things differently.  I hope you can understand what I am saying.”  Yes, I said. I was already ready to leave. I cannot do this.  She said, we need to get you out of there as soon as we can.

100% agree. Mental health professionals do not call patients out on their lies and are easily manipulated by closeted men who are very practiced at lying.

11. And im so USED to this that I was like, its really not that bad. Its the same as it was yesterday. I need to get a strategy before I do anything. I thought this could be amicable, but now I don’t know. Now I don’t know who he is. Will he try to destroy me? I thought he was a nice guy. Now I don’t know. I need to tread carefully. I called 3 attorneys yesterday. I thought I would feel sick doing it, but I didn’t. I am just numb. It doesn’t even hurt anymore.

You have some very strong trump cards: I believe you’re the breadwinner so you’re financially independent of him; your children know dad’s secret and are on your side; and you have proof of his sexual affairs with other men. Based on your recent posts, your husband wants at all costs to remain closeted. While I’d check with qualified legal counsel and have your proof safely locked away, this will be a huge bargaining chip in any future divorce proceedings...namely regarding custody.  

12. And so I came home and we had a nice dinner and my husband gave me 10000 presents and diamonds and we ate cake and my life is just a f^cked up disaster that I just pretend in. Just like he does. The only difference is I didnt know I was pretending until now.

Closeted gay husbands are incredibly perceptive when it comes to their straight wives’ feelings/emotions. He’s likely love bombing you because he senses a shift in the relationship. While it may be difficult, you might have to play his game – meaning pretend – for a time while you get your legal ducks in a row. I’d recommend you find another therapist (perhaps online) who he does not know about and cannot contact. (Because he's going to contact her for information.) I would also safely document and secure all proof of cheating for future divorce proceedings. And I’d work diligently with legal counsel to prepare your separation/divorce. Again, I'd stop with the fact-finding/detective work. You now know this man has lied, cheated, and neglected your family for your entire marriage. There is no longer any need to look to him for answers because you've established that he is constitutionally incapable of telling the truth. My advice? Read up on going "grey rock" then work like hell to get things ready for the separation/divorce stages.  

Good luck my friend. Be well.

Last edited by Sean01 (November 16, 2022 9:24 am)

Q: Sean, What do you mean "We can also add sounding to that list." What is that and how do I know that we add it to a list?  Sorry. I'm so stupid. I Google it and it just says things like some people think gay people sound effeminate.

A: My apologies ImSoConfused. Sounding is a sexual act used in the leather/BDSM community. I'm sorry as I'm getting husbands mixed up. A new member named Blue769 mentioned that her husband was into both cross dressing and sounding. So my (now deleted) comment doesn't apply to your husband ImSoConfused. Forgive me.  

Last edited by Sean01 (November 16, 2022 9:25 am)