OurPath Open Forum
This forum is for discussion of issues related to Mixed Orientation relationships only, that is when one partner is heterosexual (straight) and one is Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender or Questioning.
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- Diff I guess
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Sweeetlisa wrote:
Hi Sean,
I found a gay user email address bbc4wbbtyrone@******.com in my husband's email account. It stands for big black cock for white bare back tyrone (his username). I researched on grinder and a bunch of other hookup/gay apps and there seems to be many men out there on the down low seeking other men for sex. It's quite unsettling the amount of men using these apps. On the one hand I suspect my husband is bisexual or gay (in the closet) strait acting. On the other hand it seems as though men are sexual human beings perhaps seeking like minded sexual beings for fun (and not having to deal with emotions and women). Almost like men simply want to enjoy raunchy sex and keep it simple,, easier to deal with man only with penis/anal penetration to receive the ultimate prostate climax, something a woman can't do as easily and on a with with a high sexual drive. What are your thoughts on this? I hope this is not a dumb question. It's just that my husband seems so manly, strait acting. he doesnt know I know about his email. I file for divorce next week, I don't plan on telling him will only cause fights, lies, drama. Easier to be done with this.
I hope I am wrong, but the problem here is that slang can have very different meanings. That probably is what BBC stands for, but never heard of wbb. BB can mean bareback but never saw wbb. Possible as GBM and BBM mean gay black male and bi black male. GWM gay white male. It is very possible but odd that he would put his preferences like this. It would be more logical to state a preference for white men or for bareback and then just sort out the rest. While some guys are only into guys of a certain race most(but not all) guys would be willing to do more than just one type of sex(with men). That is the part that throws me. The other thing gay thing that WBB could stand for is white bottom boy(which isn't much better) but makes more sense.
There is a 10% chance that this email address is just an harmless one or is there by some weird accident or means something totally different. If you saw x rated conversations between the two I would advise you to divorce him as soon as possible but divorce is a radical step and I am hoping you have more than just an suspicious email address. If you suspect that your husband is gay(and he could be) then I think you need to list(at least to yourself) why.
Last edited by Diff I guess (May 21, 2022 12:22 am)
- Sean
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Thank you for writing Diff and Carnation. In reply to Carnation's post:
1. I am seeing a guy and things are amazing when we’re together. We hit it off great and always have a good time when we’re together.
Like a gay bestie perhaps?
2. The night usually ends with him becoming extremely affectionate with kissing. He said that the thought of taking it further and being intimate is overwhelming.
Red flag. Most younger gay men have kissed women, because kissing is easy and we're doing what's expected of us (read: date women). It's also easy to caresse, massage, and perform oral sex on a woman. But boners, or the lack thereof, don't lie. What we as gay men find "overwhelming" is penis-in-vagina sex because we're not interested in sex with vaginas, nor the women attached to them.
3. I don’t know where this is coming from, as we always have such a good time together and he is the one who initiates every time we make out. Do you think this could mean anything?
Ask yourself this: will this relationship improve over time? When we're young, naive, childless, and fancy-free, the dating years are often the best years. If things are rocky now, imagine your relationship 20 years later, with three kids, and a mortgage. While I don't have a lot of information here, most gay/straight marriages fail because the closeted husband is not interested in sex with his wife. In fact, the closeted husband never really demonstrated a sexual interest in his girlfriend/wife. So what's my point? If he's avoiding sex and you're asking these questions here & now, I don't think this man is your prince charming.
Be well!
Last edited by Sean (May 21, 2022 7:11 am)
- Crystal_H
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
The night usually ends with him becoming extremely affectionate with kissing. He said that the thought of taking it further and being intimate is overwhelming. I don’t know where this is coming from, as we always have such a good time together and he is the one who initiates every time we make out. Do you think this could mean anything?
This was my experience as well with my now GXH. When we first met in our early 20's this is all we would do is have great make out sessions. I thought oh wow what a great kisser. It took a while for us to get to sexual. I would question him about it and he would say that he wanted to take his time and not rush into things. I took this as "oh what a gentleman". Never imagining that he'd be gay. Got married and it was a 13 year spiral of very minimal sex in our marriage. As Sean mentions, sex was overwhelming for him. He would blame it on stress, me, his childhood trauma etc, etc.
- Gloria
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
I broke up with my gay ex boyfriend last year. He had been married to the same woman for 46 years when she passed away. He told me that they did not have sex until their wedding night and I thought that that was strange.
- beastie
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Red flag. Most younger gay men have kissed women, because kissing is easy and we're doing what's expected of us (read: date women). It's also easy to caresse, massage, and perform oral sex on a woman. But boners, or the lack thereof, don't lie. What we as gay men find "overwhelming" is penis-in-vagina sex because we're not interested in sex with vaginas, nor the women attached to them.
Sean, I'm curious about this. While our sex was dysfunctional, with him having to watch porn beforehand in secret to perform, and preferring anal sex to the point of sexual abuse, he did at times perform oral sex on me. He could never bring himself to caress me, though. I don't remember him ever touching my breasts our entire marriage. But oral sex he could do. It seemed to me like he was doing things he thought he "had" to do to pass - he obviously wasn't "into" any of it. So I'm very interested in why it's easy for a gay man to perform oral sex on a woman.
One of the strange things during our marriage was that he usually had to pull out and finish himself off manually when he did put his penis in my vagina. There were some times he could finish in my vagina (we did have three kids), but most of the time if he couldn't have anal sex, he'd finish manually. I think the times he could finish in my vagina were when he brought himself to the brink with porn beforehand. I was just a masturbatory tool.
His preferred sex was me on my side, laying faced away from him, while he penetrated me anally. Is it easier to pretend you're with a man that way?
- Sean
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Thank you for writing everyone. In reply:
Crystal wrote:
1. This was my experience as well with my now GXH. When we first met in our early 20's this is all we would do is have great make out sessions. I thought oh wow what a great kisser. It took a while for us to get to sexual. I would question him about it and he would say that he wanted to take his time and not rush into things.
This "let's wait to have sex" approach is quite common among closeted gay men, and particularly among Evangelical closeted gay men. He often uses the excuse of "God wants us to save ourselves for marriage" to avoid having sex with a woman until the couple has married. Then once married the sex is often infrequent and completely without passion. Rather than blame her boyfriend/husband's homosexuality, the straight woman often thinks the lack of intimacy is her fault.
2. I took this as "oh what a gentleman". Never imagining that he'd be gay. Got married and it was a 13 year spiral of very minimal sex in our marriage. As Sean mentions, sex was overwhelming for him. He would blame it on stress, me, his childhood trauma etc, etc.
I discuss this and many other things in the following "Our Path" podcasts:
S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath
S5 Ep 5: A Former Closeted Narcissist in Recovery Answers Your Questions - OurPath
It's quite common for closeted husbands to claim "childhood trauma made me gay," particularly when his wife has caught him cheating yet again. I have yet to read a credible scientific study that proves a correlation between childhood abuse and homosexuality in men. While I'm not a mental health professional, I urge straight spouses to approach "I'm f*cking men because I was abused as a child" with a certain degree of detachment. If your husband has lied for most of your marriage and has compulsively lied about his sexuality, gay porn, and cheating with men, there is a very good possibility he's lying about and/or exaggerating claims of sexual abuse to distract his wife. Please listen to the above podcasts or read my previous posts for additional information.
Beastie wrote:
1. Sean, I'm curious about this. While our sex was dysfunctional, with him having to watch porn beforehand in secret to perform, and preferring anal sex to the point of sexual abuse, he did at times perform oral sex on me.
I'm so sorry he put you through this my friend. Sadly, I've read about this before and some of this mirrors my own experience as well. While my (then) wife and I never had anal sex, it's quite common for the closeted husband to treat his straight wife like a kind of sex toy or sex doll, rather than a flesh-and-blood partner. And why? The 30+ year old closeted gay husband has to imagine and/or pretend he's having sex with another man to maintain an erection. He does this by: closing his eyes during sex; turning off all the lights; refusing to kiss his wife; or perhaps demanding sexual positions that mimic male-on-male sex (like doggy-style anal for example).
2. He could never bring himself to caress me, though. I don't remember him ever touching my breasts our entire marriage.
This is likely because he wasn't attracted to women nor their bodies.
3. But oral sex he could do. It seemed to me like he was doing things he thought he "had" to do to pass - he obviously wasn't "into" any of it. So I'm very interested in why it's easy for a gay man to perform oral sex on a woman.
Based on my personal experience and years of exchanging with straight spouses, I believe performing oral sex on his wife is a form of sexual compromise. By way of background, gay men are mostly divided into two categories: tops who penetrate other men; and bottoms who are penetrated. There are many other sub-categories such as versatile or "vers" (men who can both top & bottom) and "sides" (gay men who don't enjoy anal sex) but the majority of gay men identify as either tops, bottoms, or vers. While gay men can have a particular sexual identity, the homosexual male does NOT want to have sex with a woman. But he can perform oral sex on a woman as it doesn't require him to penetrate her. Gay men aren't interested in penis-in-vagina (PIV) sex, particularly if he's a bottom who prefers to be penetrated. On a more mechanical level, performing oral sex on a wife gives her an orgasm while allowing him to use his free hand(s) to masturbate...preferably to orgasm so that he can then claim, "Whoops! Well I guess we won't be having PIV sex tonight. Maybe next time." But that "next time" never comes.
4. One of the strange things during our marriage was that he usually had to pull out and finish himself off manually when he did put his penis in my vagina.
It's hard for the 30+ year old gay man to maintain an erection during PIV sex, particularly if he's a bottom. While I could perform in my 20s, once I'd started masturbating to gay porn it was challenging for me to get aroused with my then wife. And once I'd started having sex with men, I stopped having sex with her for two reasons: first, there was no longer any desire whatsoever; and second, there was always the risk of giving her an STD/STI. Condoms were also out of the question because there is less sensation with condoms and I couldn't ask to use them without her getting suspicious as to why.
5. There were some times he could finish in my vagina (we did have three kids)...
Likely when you were both younger but feel free to confirm.
6. ...but most of the time if he couldn't have anal sex, he'd finish manually. I think the times he could finish in my vagina were when he brought himself to the brink with porn beforehand. I was just a masturbatory tool.
I agree he was using you like a sex doll/sex toy.
7. His preferred sex was me on my side, laying faced away from him, while he penetrated me anally. Is it easier to pretend you're with a man that way?
Yes. I could better imagine I was with a man by turning off the lights, closing my eyes, or doing sexual positions that avoided face-to-face contact.
I'm so sorry that he put you through all of this and that I did many of these terrible things to my former wife. I hope I've answered your questions but please feel free to post again.
Last edited by Sean (May 22, 2022 2:16 pm)
- beastie
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Sean,
Thanks for answering my questions.
Yes, we conceived our three children when we were in our twenties and early thirties. He knew I wanted children, although he did not particularly want children and did not participate in their care in any meaningful way. I got pregnant easily, so it didn't take much performance on his part.
I think my ex went out of his way to have "regular" sex with me so I wouldn't get suspicious. At least once a week. But he needed porn to get an erection and I really think he'd bring himself to the edge of ejaculation before coming to bed to finish off with me as a sex toy. But the oral sex confused me. I would have thought that gay men couldn't stand to get that close to a woman's vagina. But your explanation makes sense. It's mainly PIV they want to avoid.
I do suspect my ex is a bottom. He wanted me to penetrate him with a strap-on and appeared emotionally moved by it, which struck me as strange at the time. It was like that was real intimacy, and everything else we'd ever done didn't count.
- Crystal_H
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
It's quite common for closeted husbands to claim "childhood trauma made me gay,"
He claimed that he was not given a choice when sexually molested by another boy. I'm not to sure what he means by "choice". I'm guessing since it was forced on him he didn't get to choose if molester was male/female when this was done to him. Or he didn't have a choice of the entire thing, which is correct. No one makes a choice to be sexually molested. It is usually forced. With all the reading I've done on this, I can agree with you that he was already gay and this incident did not "make" him gay. What he does claim is that incident taught him how to lie because he had to lie and not disclose what had happened to him out of shame. Feeling for the same sex were already there even as a young child, but had to be suppressed. He came from a broken family, so he had to learn how to lie at a very young age and carried it through into adulthood. I am sure being released from this secret that is carried for years is freeing for the gay spouse when they get to finally confess that they are gay.
- Sean
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Thank you for writing everyone. In reply:
Beastie wrote:
1. Thanks for answering my questions.
My pleasure.
2. Yes, we conceived our three children when we were in our twenties and early thirties. He knew I wanted children, although he did not particularly want children and did not participate in their care in any meaningful way. I got pregnant easily, so it didn't take much performance on his part.
This is quite common.
3. I think my ex went out of his way to have "regular" sex with me so I wouldn't get suspicious. At least once a week. But he needed porn to get an erection and I really think he'd bring himself to the edge of ejaculation before coming to bed to finish off with me as a sex toy.
How monstrous.
4. But the oral sex confused me. I would have thought that gay men couldn't stand to get that close to a woman's vagina. But your explanation makes sense. It's mainly PIV [penis-in-vagina sex] they want to avoid.
Correct.
5. I do suspect my ex is a bottom. [The gay male who prefers to be penetrated anally.] He wanted me to penetrate him with a strap-on and appeared emotionally moved by it, which struck me as strange at the time. It was like that was real intimacy, and everything else we'd ever done didn't count.
You make a very good point here. Following discovery of a husband's homosexuality, most couples attempt a form of mixed-orientation-marriage (also referred to as "MOMs"). Many try to incorporate strap ons or sex toys, just as you've described above. Other couples attempt open marriages or threesomes. Few MOMs survive more than two years. The outcome is usually as follows: the straight wife gets little to nothing out of this new "exploration" and is often horrified to discover just how much her questioning husband enjoys having sex with men and/or being penetrated.
Crystal wrote:
1. He [gay ex-husband] claimed that he was not given a choice when sexually molested by another boy. I'm not to sure what he means by "choice". I'm guessing since it was forced on him he didn't get to choose if molester was male/female when this was done to him. Or he didn't have a choice of the entire thing, which is correct.
As I've written before, there are two possibilities: 1. He's telling the truth; 2. He's lying. If your ex-husband lied for most of your relationship, I think it's #2. Most children go through a time of innocent sexual exploration and the same is true for little gay boys. It certainly was for me as I had sexual play with my best male friend at the time. But from a very young age, we are taught that our form of sexual play is wrong or perhaps even evil. While I've always maintained that childhood sexual abuse does happen and that it's rightfully illegal, things get complicated with closeted/questioning husbands. In my opinion, I believe that claims of "sexual abuse made me text that guy for 2 weeks, meet him in a hotel room, and have gay sex..." are nothing more than canards.
2. No one makes a choice to be sexually molested. It is usually forced.
True! But first we need to ask, "Did my pathologically dishonest husband fabricate the entire story?"
3. With all the reading I've done on this, I can agree with you that he was already gay and this incident did not "make" him gay.
...if it happened at all.
4. What he does claim is that incident taught him how to lie because he had to lie and not disclose what had happened to him out of shame. Feeling for the same sex were already there even as a young child, but had to be suppressed.
Again, that's his spin on things.
5. He came from a broken family...
Again, so he says. I'm always weary of cheating, closeted gay husbands playing victim.
6. ...so he had to learn how to lie at a very young age and carried it through into adulthood.
And he could be lying about this abuse history as well, particularly if he broke out the tears when you were threatening separation/divorce. I often tell straight spouses to gage a closted husband's honesty over the course of the relationship. I give them a scale: 10/10 is saint-like honesty; 5/10 is the average person; and 0/10 signifies pathological dishonesty. I maintain that if he's scoring something like a 2/10 when it comes to talking about his sexuality, then 20% of this abuse story is probably true and 80% is either false or exaggerated. Just sayin'
7. I am sure being released from this secret that is carried for years is freeing for the gay spouse when they get to finally confess that they are gay.
It's certainly a relief to come out, particularly after decades in the closet. But I've learned that coming out is just the beginning of the journey.
Thanks for posting friends. If you have any questions for a gay ex-husband, feel free to post them here.
Last edited by Sean (May 23, 2022 3:48 pm)
- Meredith
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Re: A gay ex-husband answers your questions
Hi Sean,
I’m new here and I posted last week a quick summary (“Crushed and Heartbroken”) of what has transpired as of recently.
Long story short, 3 years ago I found emails from my boyfriend to random men on CL. All of these emails were sent while I was out of town. When I caught him, he swore up and down they weren’t from him and he must have been hacked. I didn’t believe him, but I figured it was a phase and perhaps he would grow out of it after being caught.
Last week, I snooped through his phone and found a fake email with messages sent out saying “DL fit vers top” that were sent while he was out of town.
I confronted him and he finally owned up to the fact that he sent them, but insisted that he didn’t have sex with anyone and instead it was just something that turned him on. I asked why the fake email and he said that “it added to the excitement,” but he kept saying he was not gay.
I asked more questions and probed but he still said he wasn’t gay, and to my surprise (very new info to me after 6 years together) he brought that he was molested as a child and that could be the cause for these feelings of being turned on by men. He cried and it’s hard not to believe him, but from what I’m reading this could be something a pathological liar might say.
What are your thoughts?
PS - he used to beg for anal. I shut it down everytime (it’s not my thing) but sex with him is hard to come by (maybe once a month). Especially when he’s drunk does he want to do anal but I shut him down and he usually ends up upset. He also refuses to hold my hand in public because he says he “runs warm” and doesn’t want his hand to get clammy… strange but not sure if these are red flags or not.
Last edited by Meredith (May 24, 2022 5:52 pm)