I am having a very difficult time and hoping to get some insight from others. My husband and I have been together for 20 years. There have been absolutely NO red flags. We had an amazing sex life until recently, when he started having erectile dysfunction that we suspected was due to some recent medical issues. (He has hypertension and has had 2 surgeries, including an epididectomy due to cysts in his testicles.) He can perform with me about 50% of the time and always when using viagra. He has a history of porn use. (I'll note that it was always girl-on-girl.) This bothered me but wasn't a deal breaker. However, I recently discovered that he had a grindr account that he had been using (from what I could find on his Google account history) for about 3 months. This began during a mental health crisis on my part in which I was very distant, both emotionally and sexually. We were social distancing due to family health issues and covid so we were very isolated. He says he is not gay, but felt very lonely during this time and used grinder only to chat because he felt lonely. His reasoning is that chatting with men didn't feel like cheating as bad and he knew he wouldn't be tempted to take it further than just an online chat, as he might if he was talking to women. We decided to try to move past it and he has been amazing. He deleted the account, gives me all his passwords, not even any porn use that I have found since then. The problem for me now is that with this knowledge, I cant attribute his sexual problems to medical issues anymore. When he can't perform, I immediately think it's because he'd rather be with a man and get very emotional. We both avoid sex now and our relationship is suffering. I don't know how to move past it and I'm having a hard time believing he is not at least bi and questioning if he is still attracted to me. I don't know what to do.

Thank you for posting Harlow and Sweetlisa. 

Replying to Harlow: 

1. I am having a very difficult time and hoping to get some insight from others. My husband and I have been together for 20 years. There have been absolutely NO red flags. We had an amazing sex life until recently, when he started having erectile dysfunction that we suspected was due to some recent medical issues. (He has hypertension and has had 2 surgeries, including an epididectomy due to cysts in his testicles.) He can perform with me about 50% of the time and always when using viagra.

I'm so very sorry you've found yourself here. I'm going to provide some feedback on your situation but please keep in mind that I'm not a mental health professional. I'd also add that you're a bit of a unicorn because most of the women who contact me haven't had sex with their husbands in years and/or he's never really demonstrated an interest in sex with women. 

2. He has a history of porn use. (I'll note that it was always girl-on-girl.)…

I'd modify that to: girl-on-girl as far as you know. 

3. This bothered me but wasn't a deal breaker. However, I recently discovered that he had a Grindr account that he had been using (from what I could find on his Google account history) for about 3 months.

What a coincidence! This is the first question I answered in a recent podcast: https://ourpath.org/ourpath_podcast/s5-ep-5-a-former-closeted-narcissist-in-recovery-answers-your-questions. Skip to 4:00 where I answer the "I just caught my husband on Grindr" issue. To re-cap, Grindr is a gay hook-up application and if your husband has an account, this suggests he's cheating on you with men. 

4. This began during a mental health crisis on my part in which I was very distant, both emotionally and sexually. We were social distancing due to family health issues and Covid so we were very isolated.

Bullsh*t. I'm going to assume that you're parroting his blame shift because this is the excuse he gave you. Am I correct? A supportive husband doesn't immediately turn to gay hook up apps like Scruff, Grindr, or Hornet because his wife is having mental health issues. A good husband helps his wife get through the mental health crisis through love and support.  

5. He says he is not gay, but felt very lonely during this time and used Grindr only to chat because he felt lonely...

More bullsh*t. Grindr is for man-on-man sex, not friendship. If he felt lonely, why didn't he buy a dog or, better yet, just chat with people on Facebook, WhatsApp, or any other of a dozen (platonic) social media apps? You don't have to take my word for it. Ask any gay man what Grindr is for, all of them will reply: "SEX." So he's lying. 

6. His reasoning is that chatting with men didn't feel like cheating as bad and he knew he wouldn't be tempted to take it further than just an online chat, as he might if he was talking to women.

Oh so he was on a gay hook up app to protect you (his wife)….m'yeah I'm calling bullsh*t on that too. Question: did he admit to cheating on you with men through Grindr? Some common signs of gay cheating: an obsessive interest in physical fitness (to get Grindr ready); a new look/haircut; lots of faceless naked selfies on his phone; body shaving; and sexy new underwear.  

7. We decided to try to move past it and he has been amazing. He deleted the account, gives me all his passwords, not even any porn use that I have found since then.

There is always a honeymoon phase after marital conflict, something I discuss during the above podcast. 

8. The problem for me now is that with this knowledge, I cant attribute his sexual problems to medical issues anymore. When he can't perform, I immediately think it's because he'd rather be with a man and get very emotional.

This is totally understandable and I apologize if I'm coming across as glib in the above answers. Quite often the head (meaning your mind) lags a straight spouse's heart (meaning you know in your bones he's "not straight"). If your husband has always had a strong libido and enjoys sex with you, the sexual disconnect often comes from a deep-seeded fear that a cheating husband is putting you at risk. This may explain his erectile dysfunction and performance issues. Setting aside the gay/straight question, I'd urge you both get tested for STDs/STIs because it's possible he's cheating on you and would also suggest you stop having sex and/or only practice safe sex (meaning condoms) from now on. Insisting on an STD/STI test is also a great way to confirm if he has cheated because only a cheating husband would resist such a test. 

9. We both avoid sex now and our relationship is suffering. I don't know how to move past it and I'm having a hard time believing he is not at least bi and questioning if he is still attracted to me. I don't know what to do.

I'm sorry you're suffering. To recap, a Grindr account strongly suggests he's attracted to and/or having sex with men. If you've enjoyed a healthy sex life for most of your marriage, he could be bisexual and just afraid of sharing this attraction with you for fear of losing you while also losing his straight identity. I am troubled by your mental health issues and hope you're getting professional help. If yes, I'd discuss all of this with a counsellor and further suggest you mention his attempted blame shifts: namely his bullsh*t excuses that he was on Grindr because he was lonely and because you were emotionally distant. I hope that helped my friend. 

Replying to Sweetlisa: 

1. Sean, Thank you so much for your brutal honesty.  I'm living your previous married situation with 2 children ages 7 and 9 and I'm the (clueless) wife. 

So sorry you've found yourself here my friend. 

2. I'm planning to divorce my husband this month on grounds of irreconcilable differences, although he doesn't know I know about his secret gay lifestyle. 

Understood. 

3. I don't think he's admitted it to himself but I've found evidence.   We've been married 14 years and I had to process the pain without him over the last few years because he's extremely defensive and doesn't want to break up the family (and he lies). 

Got it. Feel free to share more details in a follow up post. 

4. I wasnt planning on telling him I know anything about his secret Grindr email address becuase he'll rage, deny it, so I'll just blame it on something else when divorcing. 

Please see the above podcast link as I discuss the issue of closeted husbands on Grindr. 

5. Do you have any suggestions?  Thank you for what you are doing, I can't tell you how releived/happy I feel to have answers.

Sorry. I can't provide any advice for your divorce because I'm not an attorney, although I do discuss some divorce-related issues at the end of the above podcast. If you can provide a more detailed history, I might be able to provide some insight into your future ex-husband. Regardless, I would suggest having all of your legal and financial ducks in a row before initiating the divorce. 

6. I think he'll fight me all the way with attorneys and blame me, so if you have any advice on how to approach this I would appreciate it very much.

That's a very real possibility my friend. If you can provide more information about your marriage, sex life (or lack thereof), and your husband's cheating I could perhaps provide some insights. I hope to hear back from you. Be well! 

Last edited by Séan (April 5, 2022 5:41 pm)

Thank you for responding Harlow. In reply: 

1. Thank you Sean! I greatly appreciate you doing this to help women in these situations. I was worried that since the original post was from 2016 I might not get an answer, but you respond so quickly! It's awesome you have kept this up and it is so helpful to get answers from the man's perceptive.

That's very kind of you but please keep in mind that I was once a toxic, closeted, and cheating *sshole. But I'll gladly take the compliments! 

2. I wanted to clarify a few things and get your opinion on some things after clarification. I realized my statement about our sex life might be unclear. The 50% performance is when unmedicated. We have great sex without viagra about half the time. If hes medicated he never has erection problems with me.

Noted thanks. 

3. I'm wondering if the inconsistency points to it being more medical or psychological.

It could be physical (aging for example), emotional, or psychological but I'll leave that diagnosis to the experts. 

4. As far as his porn use, he knew it bothered me and hid it. I've always found the porn while snooping, so he may be watching gay porn as well, but the only porn I have found was always girl on girl.

Understood. 

5. Would he even be interested in girl-on-girl if he is gay?

He'd be interested in watching the men yes, however, most gay men I know enjoy gay porn. 

6. I'm assuming he'd hide the gay porn in the same manner and I've never found that.

I agree. 

7. I'm fairly certain my husband hasn't taken it further than chats. I know I sound like I am in denial, but during the time his account was active, he was working from home and socially distancing so we were literally always together, as far as appearance, my husband actually did the opposite and let himself go during this time (gained about 20 pounds, quit working out, no new clothes, hardly even showered.) He also had a golf ball sized epididimal cyst that he was very self conscious about, so I'm fairly confident he wasn't hooking up with anyone else.

Cheating is like an iceberg, 9/10ths is always under water. I've never had contact with a straight spouse who didn't deny, minimize, or downplay her husband's cheating, porn history, or Grindr use. To look at your situation objectively, you might try writing all of this down as if your best friend, sister, or adult daughter told you the same story. For example, "Barbara caught her husband Jim on Grindr. Jim denied that he's gay and strongly denied any cheating." Or perhaps you can share all of this with someone who doesn't know your husband and/or isn't invested in the two of you staying together. Doing both might help you gain some perspective on your own situation. 

8. I do agree that his excuses are bull. Gay/bi aside, cheating on your wife during her mental health crisis is pretty shitty.

Here we agree! 

9. He continues to swear he isn't gay. I wish he'd be honest with himself and to me. If he's bi, still attracted to me, and his sexual problems are medical, I want to make this work. I see no reason his attraction to men in addition to women has to be a deal breaker if he is committed to a monogamous relationship with me. He can be attracted to men without acting on it. I'm fine with that.

As a gay man who divorced, I'm probably not the best person to address these issues. As such, I'd suggest posting on the mixed orientation marriage (MOM) section of this forum or perhaps posting your questions here: www.reddit.com/r/StraightBiPartners. 

10. My fear is that he is more gay than bi and this is the root of his sexual problems.

It's certainly possible, however, if you've had a satisfying sex life up until now and you continue having sex, that suggests your husband is bisexual. Regardless, I urge you to both get tested for STIs/STDs and to use condoms going forward because husbands who use Grindr (a gay hook up app) on the down low aren't the most honest people when it comes to being honest about cheating. The last thing you want is to catch some lifelong or life-threating STI because your husband hooked up "once" with another guy. So I suggest proceeding with caution.  

11. If this is the case I don't think I can continue in this marriage, but it's hard for me to leave when he won't open up to me about who he truly is. Do you think there is hope for us?

There is always hope, provided you both define love and marriage the same way. Asking a struggling husband, "Are you gay?" rarely works. So perhaps you could ask him: 

- What should I do in this situation, meaning after having caught you on a gay sex app? 
- How do you define gay? 
- Can two men love each other? 

This is something I discussed at about the four-minute mark here: https://ourpath.org/ourpath_podcast/s5-ep-5-a-former-closeted-narcissist-in-recovery-answers-your-questions. Based on the information you provided, namely that your husband has always enjoyed sex with you, I think posting on the reddit forum (see above) or perhaps asking these same questions in the MOM section might help. As a gay ex-husband who divorced, I'm not the most objective person to address your issues. 

Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (April 6, 2022 10:23 am)

rb, I'm so sorry you find yourself here -- welcome.  We've all been there.  I do want to weigh in on one thing: depending on the law in your jurisdiction, you may be able to get out of that prenup.  You really need to have a lawyer advise you, as and when you need to know the answer to this question.  But a contract that was induced by fraud is void.  If he didn't disclose his sexuality to you before you signed the prenup, it's possible the contract can be thrown out on the grounds of fraud and bad faith.

I'm so sorry for everything you're going through.  It's very hard dealing with the way kids perceive the situation; people often fail to see how impossibly trapped kids feel.  They feel guilty for keeping a secret they knew would hurt you, but they also were never given a choice in the matter.  It's a toxic family dynamic, and the only way to clean it up is for everybody to be honest with everybody else.  I'm glad you're at least on honest footing with them.

Thank you walkbymyself and rb for writing. In reply to rb's post: 

1. About ten years ago, I discovered that my husband was having sex with other men. I struggled to understand, but over time I decided to stay. At the time, my children were 11 and 5. Now, our kids are 16 and 22, and recently they told me that they have known for quite some time.

I'm so sorry you're struggling my friend but thank you nonetheless for bringing up how gay/straight marriages often negatively affect our children. I'm not surprised that your kids have known about dad's "exploring" for years because closeted/questioning husbands leave a lot of clues. I've often written that toxic marriages are like second-hand smoke, meaning that our children are exposed to them despite our best efforts to protect them. 

2. They are both angry and depressed, and I feel as if I failed my kids because I thought we were doing a good job hiding from them. My son is gay (22), and he is not my husband's biological child. They have a "complicated" relationship.

Understandable. Most closeted/questioning husbands have complicated relationships with openly gay friends/family. 

3. My husband, who is 70 years old, still maintains that he is not gay or bisexual because he has never had a romantic relationship with other men.

This is a common excuse and it's bullsh*t, something I discussed here S5 Ep 5: A Former Closeted Narcissist in Recovery Answers Your Questions - OurPath. Skip to 4:00 where I discuss this excuse. 

4. He says he is a lady's man and always will be, yet he enjoys sex with men.

If he enjoys sex with both men and women, then he's bisexual. 

5. On a side note, he was abused by a family member as a child.

Again I'm calling bullsh*t on cheating husbands who claim "childhood abuse made me gay." I discussed this in the following podcast S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath at the 1h03min point.  

6. I'm 48 and lost. I have dealt with this situation alone for the last ten years. My family and friends are very traditional and heterosexual, so there is no chance of sharing this information.

I'm glad you found this forum and would recommend you go through "Our Path's" first aid kit. I'd also urge you to reach out to "Our Path" hotline for support Personal Support - OurPath. 

7. His family is even more traditional than mine, and he had a sister who contracted HIV from a gay husband. His brother-in-law committed suicide after his sister left him.

Tragic. I think we can start using "dysfunctional" rather than "traditional."  

8. My husband is fully supportive of his sister and her predicaments, and I wonder if he makes any connection to our situation, or better, my situation.

Probably not as most closeted/questioning husbands lack self awareness and empathy. 

9. Am I playing the victim? Sometimes I question myself as well. I should just shut up and keep pretending as I have been for the last ten years, but lately, my heart aches.

You're just sharing about your toxic marriage so, no, you don't come across as a victim. With regards to staying married, that's your decision. 

10. I just started therapy; my husband does not know. My therapist says that I'm a very compassionate person. So what? What does all this compassion get me? I'm still in pain, and my kids are a mess.

I think it's a red flag when wives are afraid to tell philandering husbands they are in therapy. If you haven't already done so, I'd suggest asking your therapist if this is an emotionally abusive relationship. You might also wish to discuss co-dependency. 

11. Sometimes, it feels like he is oblivious to my struggles. Just because I decided to stay, it does not mean that I don't struggle.

Agreed. 

12. He does have a healthy sex drive and wants to have a sexual life with me, which is another struggle because I think he is gay, but he wants and enjoys having sex with me. I can't wrap my head around this. I'm always afraid I'm going to contract an STD or HIV. He says he is always careful; he is a physician, so he knows the ins and outs of STDs, etc. Even so, I'm always concerned. 

No marriage is worth dying for my friend and cheating husbands shouldn't dismiss very legitimate concerns about STDs/STIs. I think it's more than reasonable to get tested and only practice only safe sex (meaning condoms) going forward.   

13. I am financially dependent, so divorce would be something difficult. I hear people saying, get your ducks in a row before thinking about divorce. Well, I have NO ducks. We married with a prenup, so I would walk away empty-handed, which doesn't matter anymore at this point in my life. I'm so EXHAUSTED.

I'm so sorry you and your children are suffering. As I shared in the above podcast, I don't believe we can put a dollar figure on our mental health and well-being.  

14. I did not sign up for this; I understand I had the choice to leave before, but my children were little, and I was naive and ignorant. 

Question: if you could go back, would you do things differently?  

15. I don't want to paint a picture of an evil husband.

The word that comes to mind is more "*sshole" than evil. Between the cheating and complete disregard for your sexual/emotional health, he sounds like a world-class pr*ck. You deserve better. 

16. He supports me in my studies. I just graduated with a BA in Literature and writing, and he paid for my and my son's college education. 

As a husband and father should. He doesn't get a medal for doing what all dads do. 

17. What is throwing me into crisis is that now that my children know and are aware of it, I am having a hard time staying.

Understandable. 

18. Another thing is that my husband is 22 years older than me; there is always a conflict. I have a more open relationship with my kids. He is very goal-oriented and a perfectionist. He is also very successful career/financial-wise, and he has high expectations for our children. Still, he does not know how our secret had impacted our kids emotionally and psychologically.

Again, closeted/questioning men often struggle with empathy. 

19. I'm afraid to tell him that our daughter knows. First, he will blame me (he seldom takes ownership of any wrongdoing). Just recently, he owned that he did me wrong and should have told me before we got married, and that came after I went ballistic because I found a hotel key card on the passenger seat of his car. I'm teaching my daughter to drive, and we use his car. I got mad because I had to cover his tracks on top of everything. My son walked into my bathroom to get cotton swabs and found his dildo in the bathtub.

If you and your children live in fear of his reaction and/or the possibility of retaliation, this sounds like an abusive marriage. Let's not forget that your husband is at fault here.   

20. I still debate letting everything out in the open because I know it will be devastating to him.

Pardon my French but f*ck him. What about the devastation you and your children have experienced because of his cheating/secrets? 

21. My daughter asked me to wait until she is off to college, which will be next year (fall 2023). She said she did not know how to handle the situation with him, and she cried and said that she knew she is being selfish by asking this, but still, she begged.

This makes my heart ache...but it's also a cautionary tale for any straight spouses who are considering staying together "for the kids." Living with dad's secret is often devastating for our children. 

22. I encouraged both of them to do therapy, she asked me to wait until summer because it is her junior year and she is very stressed; she said it is so painful that she cannot handle school and dealing with this at the same time. She is a straight-A student and has a great GPA. I don't want to mess it up for her. She agreed to go to therapy once school is over.

Understood. 

23. My son, on the other hand, is failing college. He gained 30-40 pounds and wants to drop off school. I'm not sure I can wait anymore. If I tell him [husband] that we all know, I'll be betraying my daughter, and If I don't tell him, I will explode/implode.

I think you can openly discuss all of this with your kids, your therapist, and perhaps trusted friends who aren't under your husband's influence/control. I don't see the need to discuss all of this with your cheating husband at the moment.  

24. I need enlightenment. Someone to talk to. Someone who has gone through something similar. He had other relationships with women...

Again I'd suggest reaching out to "Our Path" via their hotline. If you'd prefer free and yet confidential resources, you might wish to try coda.org (Online Meetings - CoDA.org), a 12-step association for co-dependents.   

25. and he admitted in one of his previous relationships his partner knew and actually supported him. 

To me this reads like a warning along the lines of, "Cross me and I'll find someone else." Again, I can't stress what an *sshole this man sounds like. 

26. We have been married for 19 years, and I had no red flags before, but once the cat was out of the bag, he is having his outings, as my daughter calls, and I know, it hurts me, but I'm still here.

Of course it hurts and it sounds like your cheating husband is completely ignorant to your pain and the risk of STDs/STIs. Jerk. 

27. If anything sounds confusing, just ask me. I am bawling my eyes out as I am writing this. It has been such a lonely road. 

I'm so sorry you're suffering but you're no longer alone my friend. Again I'd urge you to contact "Our Path", start your own thread on this forum, and perhaps participate in some CODA Zoom meetings Online Meetings - CoDA.org. I strongly believe that connection remains a huge part of my own recovery. Please feel free to post here as often as you like and/or ask additional questions. Be well. 

Last edited by Sean (April 8, 2022 2:28 pm)