Thanks for posting friends. In reply: 

1. LMM wrote: Sean, A lot has been shifting the past few weeks. He’s very settled about divorce, actually dealing with fears of loneliness with his therapist and journal, not putting that on me anymore. I stopped catering to his victim playing, and that turned things around!

Well done! Setting boundaries with the closeted husband and, most importantly, making those boundaries clear is so important.  

2. For instance, he was phrasing it as, “You’re ending our marriage and I have to be loving and respect your wish to leave me.” I got the gumption to retort, “Let’s remember why I wanted to end the marriage! I was trying to be married and you were not in it. You did things to hurt me in ways that will take years of recovery! So don’t put ending the marriage on me!” It felt AMAZING to say things like that whenever he played the victim.

Again, well played. Closeted/questioning husbands love to play the victim when long-suffering straight wives start to push back. Most often it sounds like, "I was sexually abused and that made me gay!" when she starts making noises about separation/divorce. This behaviour is a bit like an aggressor saying, "Yes I punched you but you hurt my fist with your face!"  

3. Our friend was telling both of us the “save the marriage” views, so I definitely heard it for myself. I’ve talked to him more often than my husband has. But yes, in situations where I’m not hearing something I never give 100% credit to what he says anymore. Not since the interview with you. That’s been a good steadying idea as I become independent.

To paraphrase Judge Judy, "You know how you can tell that a closeted husband is lying? His mouth is moving." Here again is that interview link: LMM/Charlotte interview link: https://cutt.ly/RABYaP5. As I wrote in my previous post, whenever your closeted husband starts spouting off about anything, particularly as you move towards separation/divorce, do the following: believe; write it down; then independently verify. It's not that closeted/questioning husbands are bad people, it's just that we don't speak a language called truth while closeted/semi-closeted. Truth just isn't a language we understand. 

4. I have some grief and anxiety about his upcoming moving day.

Of course! This is a big step for both you and your children. 

5. But it’s more related to my own personal insecurities. I’ve always had a husband or dad in my home. The old evangelical ideas still haunt me, saying you’re unprotected and open to demons if you’re without that manly authority in the home. Then I laugh at that fear, thinking how awful those men were to me! It’s good to be without them in my case.

Once he's out of the house, I'm confident that you'll be seeing things much more clearly. This will also give your children the possibility to heal and, most importantly, your future ex-husband can heal...on his own. BUT I'd be prepared for the next phase: gay adolescence. If he follows a common path, your future ex-husband is now furiously trying to find a boyfriend/partner. So I'd be prepared for 1-3 years of teen-like boy-crazy behaviour. Good luck! 

6. Carnation wrote: ​What does the phrase: “I love you but I can’t give you what you deserve” imply?

Just that I assume. 

7. Am I overthinking that he might be gay and can’t be in a romantic relationship with me? He ended our otherwise good relationship by saying that with no further explanation.

I'm afraid that I still don't have enough information to determine if he's gay/bisexual my friend. Sorry. 

8. Do you think if he was really questioning his sexuality, he would’ve admitted that to me during the break up? Or was this enough of a hint.

Based on my exchanges here, most closeted/questioning husbands don't come out to their straight wives, particularly when he's an Evangelical Christian or comes from an anti-gay family. I'm sorry I can't provide more insight my friend but I just don't have enough information. Be well!   

lily wrote:

Firstly Sean, thank you for posting, they are great to read, 'blindingly toxic self centredness'  rather than cruelty - it's a good distinction to think about.

Hopeless, I wanted to say something - I fell for the same thing of feeling well I'm not being physically abused and he's so nice.  Well I see it now the same way there's passive aggression as well as aggression there's passive abuse.  it's just as deadly in the long run.  at least if you are being physically hit you know to leave. 

It's like you know you've been abused by the bruises you have - being made to feel unattractive is really painful and wrong with worse heaped on top as you take the blame for it.

Lily,

You made some fair points. I have a tendency to try to minimize problems in my relationships. Things could always be worse. I believe most people aren’t malicious, and since I want forgiveness and understanding when I make mistakes, I try very very hard to offer it to others... especially my loved ones. But there is a difference between forgiving and excusing behaviors... and I need to stop doing the latter.

Thank you for the update HopelessRomantic ("HR"). In response to your post: 

1. I’d like to apologize for getting a little defensive before.

No problem whatsoever. I can often overstep boundaries. 

2. I did the reading you suggested and took a long hard look at the past decade of my life from an outsider’s point of view. When I heaped all the little ‘molehills’ I excused in my youth into a pile, I wound up with quite the mountain.

Well done because this isn't an easy exercise. For those who are new to this thread, I often ask straight wives to write down their stories as if a female best friend or adult daughter were describing their relationships. This can help the straight spouse look at her own relationship with a degree of objectivity.  

3. It wasn’t just being made to feel insecure about my appearance, the ever moving goal posts, lack of affection and subtle gaslighting... I was isolated, there were a couple of years where I couldn’t even see my family except on holidays, he’d get angry if I even asked. I had to make less money than him, and I had to keep my work hours within his, or he’d be toxic. He had all the control and there were endless double standards. Even assuming the best (that he wasn’t doing all this intentionally), you were right about our relationship in the past being abusive.

Control, isolation from friends/family, and economic domination are frequently parts of the gay/straight marriage dynamic. I'm sorry that you've been in such an abusive relationship. You deserve better.  

4. Two separate statements he made nearly 10 years ago really put things in perspective for me. Firstly, he had told me that I was responsible for my own emotions and it wasn’t his fault or problem if the things he did or said hurt me or made me feel insecure, that was my problem and I needed to get over it.

Pr*ck. 

5. Second, he told me that he didn’t owe me anything and so if I said/did something he didn’t like he could/would just leave. When I put those statements together what he really told me was this: “I can treat you however I please and it’s your responsibility to just get over it, but if you don’t behave the way I want you to then I’ll just leave you.” 

What an *sshole.

6. He thinks I’m unreasonable for ‘holding past mistakes against him‘ when he’s trying and doing so much better this time... that is BS.

I agree. 

7. He just cracked Pandora’s box back open, after lying and sneaking around with it. Things might not be ‘that bad’ right now, but they were before and could be again. I am 100% justified in my concerns.

Again, 100% agree.

8. On a separate note, I’m going to make a slight correction to your statement about him giving me oral because I made noises about leaving. I have not made those noises yet this time...

Based on my own experience and based on years of exchanging with straight spouses here, closeted/questioning husbands are incredibly sensitive to their spouse's thoughts and emotions. It's partly how we control you. So you needn't have discussed separation/divorce openly for him to pick up on it. You know he's afraid of losing his "beard" and being exposed (as gay or perhaps as a cross dresser in your situation) if he suddenly makes small concessions or out of nowhere now wants sex all the time. 

9. He’s making preemptive efforts to appease me because we have come close to divorce in the past... and technically he’s appeasing me by accepting oral not by giving it. Rarely is it the other way around.

That's even worse my friend. What man turns down a blowjob from his wife? 

10. I prefer being on the giving side anyway so that doesn’t bug me...

It should. It bothers me that this abusive, toxic *sshole is now giving you permission to give him a blowjob as if it's some kind of reward. I ask again: what effort if any is he putting into this relationship? Don't just walk out of this marriage my friend. Run! 

11. Why would I want someone who’s previously voiced an aversion to my intimate areas to have his face buried in them? All that’s going to do is make me feel insecure.

You deserve love and intimacy my friend. In my opinion, this is the statement of an abused wife and I strongly suggest you discuss this with a professional or perhaps a women's group for emotionally abused spouses. I'd also urge you to contact "Our Path" for support (888-651-2811 or 708-227-9646) or send a private message to LMM (see above profile). I believe LMM/Charlotte is part of a group for women living with emotionally abusive husbands. 

Please protect yourself and your children. 

Last edited by Sean (March 14, 2022 1:03 pm)

Sean,

You asked what effort he’s putting into this relationship, if any. He is and always has put in some effort.

1) He stays with me even when I’m struggling or depressed. I was highly unstable when we first met (18, with 3 years of emotional/physical/sexual under my belt) and although he didn’t always handle situations appropriately, he stuck with me while I put myself back together. We went through several years of infertility, which we both assumed was my fault,  it was soul crushing (his behavior made that worse, having an ABDL husband was like salt in a wound) and I was extremely depressed. He could have abandoned me and found someone new, but he stayed.

2) After we had kids, he moved us closer to my family so the kids and I could see them more often.

3) He works a stressful job that he hates so that he can support our family. Making sure the kids and I are provided for is his #1 priority.

4) He has in the past several years relinquished a lot of control. He’s still the head of the house and has final say in most major decisions, but as far as decisions regarding our home, day to day matters, and anything involving our children he lets me steer the ship.

5) He closed the box completely for a little over 3 years before cracking it back open. The first year and a half of that time he was perfect: loving, supportive, protective, everything someone could possibly ask for in a husband. Problems started slowly bubbling back up, but he did try.

6) He’s currently compromising or sacrificing his desires and the ability to have/do what he wants when he wants, because he wants to keep our family together.

Last edited by HopelessRomantic (March 14, 2022 4:09 pm)

Thanks for your openess, Sean.

I appreciate your honesty and desire to share to those confused and looking for answers they may not be getting from their spouses.

Jumping to it...

Did you ever feel you were actually in love with your wife?

Did the validation you gave yourself for your authenticity (to yourself) ever cause you pain? Or was it more relief?

Did you ever try to convince yourself it was other qualities about your wife you didn't like  apart from sexuality?

Thanks for your time and willingness to share