Hi Sean. Its been a while since I last posted here. Nothing has changed except maybe my husband doesn't view transexual porn. If he does, its been very well hidden. Theres still no sex. No interest in being intimate whatsoever. I even travel for work and even in my absence he does not want me in that way. We are truly roommates. He says that his medication keeps him from getting an erection but I know that is a lie. He cannot maintain an erection and forget orgasm....at least where I am concerned. He can do both on his own masturbatng. Even if he was concerned about my sexual feelings he could at least bring me to some relief. But no...that's not happening. Theres always an argument over it even if its been months since I brought up the question. You would have thought I had asked him to do something illegal or immoral. I am going away again on the 22nd of this month and I'm thinking of not coming back. I don't even want to tell him where I'm staying. Theres no easy way to do this. What do I do? Or how best to handle it? Our child is grown now so theres no excuse for me to stay and not that this was problematic anyway.

Thank you for writing friends. In reply: 

1. OSD wrote: Hi Sean. Its been a while since I last posted here. Nothing has changed except maybe my husband doesn't view transexual porn. If he does, its been very well hidden.

Thank you for writing although I'm so very sorry things haven't improved with your husband. Would it be possible to give me your former forum name/nickname so that I may review our previous exchanges? 

2. There's still no sex. No interest in being intimate whatsoever.

This must have been incredibly painful. You deserve(d) so much better my friend. This is the biggest red flag in gay/straight relationships. In my experience, the sexual disconnect is what drives most straight wives to ask questions, to agitate, and to investigate. As a closeted gay man, I did everything I could to avoid sex with my (then) wife because it felt like being forced to have sex with my sister. Most straight wives I've exchanged with over the years feel this sexual disconnect from the beginning of their relationships. The most common situation I've read about is no sex on the wedding night or little to no sex on the honeymoon. Then over the years he creates bullsh*t excuses to avoid sex/intimacy. It's cruel and he often shifts the blame on to his wife which I believe is emotional abuse. This is something Kristin K and I discussed during a recent podcast S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real - OurPath at around the 00:11:00 minute mark. 

3. I even travel for work and even in my absence he does not want me in that way. We are truly roommates. He says that his medication keeps him from getting an erection but I know that is a lie.

I agree. 

4. He cannot maintain an erection [with his wife] and forget orgasm....at least where I am concerned. He can do both on his own masturbating.

This is a common disconnect. He's not interested in sex with his wife and yet he's buying Viagra, lube, and condoms. He claims to have erectile dysfunction and yet has a prescription for Cialis. He's tired, sex is painful, or (worse) sex reminds him of some (likely vague/false) sexual trauma. And yet he's hooking up with men all the time. The bottom line is he refuses to have sex with his wife. 

5. Even if he was concerned about my sexual feelings he could at least bring me to some relief. But no...that's not happening. There's always an argument over it even if its been months since I brought up the question. You would have thought I had asked him to do something illegal or immoral.

I'm sorry he's acting this way. Again, his actions suggest he's questioning/gay-in-denial. 

6. I am going away again on the 22nd of this month and I'm thinking of not coming back. I don't even want to tell him where I'm staying. There's no easy way to do this.

Well I'd encourage you to have some plan in place as far as living accommodations, your shared finances, and perhaps a plan for separation/divorce. If you haven't already done so, please consult with a divorce attorney before escaping. 

7. What do I do? Or how best to handle it? Our child is grown now so there's no excuse for me to stay and not that this was problematic anyway.

If you're empty nesters, then it will be somewhat easier to separate/divorce. Again I'd encourage you to consult with a qualified divorce attorney before leaving. It might be worthwhile to come up with a plan before leaving on January 22nd. Good luck and please keep coming back to share your journey. For every straight spouse posting here, I believe there are hundreds following along. 

8. Parker Ann wrote: Hi Sean. Thank you so much for your quick response! I appreciate that. I will definitely look into reading about the gay adolescence and grey rock.

If you want to understand the coming out process, I recommend "The Velvet Rage" by Dr. Alan Downs. With regards to narcissism, I found "Co-Dependent No More" by Melody Beattie an excellent resource for anyone who dated/married narcissists. I listened and re-listened to both audio books. Coda.org was also a huge help. CODA is a 12-step community for co-dependents and my time there helped me rebuild my own broken self-esteem. 

9. Do you feel being gay is genetic?

I do believe I was born gay, as do 99.9% of my gay friends. Whenever I'm asked this question by straight people, I always ask them two questions: "When did you choose to be straight?" and "Do you think you were born straight?" Being gay is as involuntary/genetic as being heterosexual.   

10. Are any of your kids gay?

None have come out as gay (yet) but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. If any of my kids came out as LGBTQ, I'd fully accept/embrace them. 

11. I also left out a piece of my story my brain has blocked out. My former spouse had sexual relations with his Best Man in our wedding (before our marriage).

Wow. So how did you find out? 

12. The Best Man is married to a female as they have 3 young daughters. Best Man's wife now knows the truth and decided to stay with him. Is this common?

I wouldn't say that it's common to f*ck your best man just before the wedding, no. However, it is quite common for couples to double down on marriages following infidelity, particularly when a straight wife has found out her husband is having sex with men. In my limited experience, this most often occurs in evangelical Christian circles where male-on-male sex is treated more as an addiction or perhaps a mental illness. Whether religious or not, I think the natural reaction to infidelity is to stay together, at least for a time. There is often a short-lived "honeymoon" phase after a questioning husband admits to a sexual attraction to men or that he's having sex with men. By "honeymoon" I mean a few weeks or months during which he plays "perfect straight husband" by attempting to have sex with his wife. After years of abuse/neglect, she of course appreciates the renewed intimacy. Sadly, it's all rather brief and they're back to zero intimacy, conflict, and him cheating in a few months.  

13. Do most gay men "try it out" with one of their best friends?

Well I don't know of many men who f*cked their best man before a wedding, but yes there is often a period of gay sexual exploration. Gay men are just like heterosexuals, meaning there is often childhood, pre-adolescent, or adolescent sexual play with friends. This was my experience as well. 

14. I am still in shock over this and feel my brain just can't grasp this.

I'm so sorry he put you through all of this. Without taking away from your pain, I want to share that "I had sex with my best (male) friend" is quite common. If your husband and his best friend remained in contact over the years, they likely continued having sex. Closeted gay men, and in particular very religious closeted gay husbands, often have long-term relationships with other husbands/fathers because they deem these relationships as "safe." In their minds, it's safer to be with another (evangelical) husband/father because there is little chance the other will come out and thereby blow up both of their lives. (Think about the movie "Brokeback Mountain.") It's a kind of mutually assured destruction clause. In my limited experience, the long-term gay lover and your husband are very close friends, are in constant contact (daily calls/texts), often do lots of family things together, and when together their wives witness a level of intimacy that goes far beyond friendship. One example a friend of mine shared was when he lovingly removed a dollop of sunscreen from his long-term boyfriend's face when on a "family" boating trip. (Both wives and families knew each other socially.) The other wife witnessed the gesture/intimacy and, later, completely broke down because she always suspected the husbands were much more than just friends.

I'm blathering on and will end it there. Thank you both for sharing and please come back if you want to post/share again. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (January 12, 2022 9:21 am)

In response to OSD:

1. Sean, I don't remember what user name I had. The content described the use of transexual porn, the only porn, he viewed escalating to adult friend finder, and my space, and him having these open, oozing sores on his hands, arms, and groin area. Multiple cell phone calls to numbers that I have no idea to where or who.

Yes this rings a bell but "oozing sores", egads! 

2. I have been told that straight men view transexual porn but I believe in his case, since it was the only type of porn, he could justify to himself since they "looked like women" it was okay.

I like to paraphrase Judge Judy, "If a gay-in-denial and/or cheating husband's mouth is moving, he's lying." 

3. I have heard him talk in his sleep during this time that quote, "I hate sleeping with her. I like dick." He says he would never say this and called me a liar.

Classic Gaslighting - Wikipedia. 

4. Why in the world would I make this up??? He told me to get over it and stop beating a dead horse. He was just tired of hearing about the way he made me feel. Anyway. I hope that jars your memory.

It does jar my memory although I have to admit how painful it is to read about what a complete *sshole this man is. 

5. ​I've seen a few posts here examining their husband's constant use of hemorrhoid cream. I see the correlation but need more clarification. I know that my husband uses it constantly.

This would suggest he's a gay bottom, or more on the receiving end of anal play. While there are endless combinations, most gay men are either tops (car), bottoms (garage), or versatile (both).  

6. Even had to have them [hemorrhoid] lanced. These also started around the same time sex life dropped off. Do all gay men experience hemorrhoids regularly?

I myself do not. While I'd suggest consulting with a medical specialist, what you've described suggests your husband is involved in frequent and rather extreme anal/ass play. While I won't delve into any details, please do not have sex with this man. Between the oozing open sores and now the hemorrhoids, I think that any sexual activity with this man would be very very risky. Please don't put your health at risk. 

Last edited by Sean (January 11, 2022 10:55 pm)

Thank you for writing LIT. In reply: 

1. Hello again Sean, You wrote before that you truly loved your wife when you met and continued to for a long time until porn and cyber sex started to take up your mind.

Correction: I used to write that I loved my (then) wife, but I truly loved the cover she provided me to hide my sexuality. I think it would be more accurate to state that I loved her as a beard, not as a wife. Urban Dictionary: Beard. 

2. Also that having sex with your wife felt like doing it with a sister.

Correct. As a gay man with zero attraction to women, having sex with my ex-wife always made my skin crawl. 

3. It was finished once you had been with a man.

True. Once I'd had real-world sex with another man, I could no longer have sex with her for three reasons: first, I could no longer "pretend" that I was attracted to women; second, I couldn't ask her to start using condoms without raising suspicions; and third, in the back of my mind I always feared giving her an STD/STI if we had unprotected sex.  

4. So would you say you started hating your ex as your desire for men grew or still loved her in a platonic way while being mean and cruel for control purposes. Do you still love her? Like a sister? Like a best friend? Or is it more like feeling affection and attachment for a pet or toy because you have memories?

If I'm being totally honest, I never loved her (see answer #1) so today it's more like affection/memories. 

5. Would you get out of your way to help her even if she or your children don't ask for it? For example if she were in crisis, victim of crime, financial trouble, illness etc.. would you make yourself available for her? If she never remarried or does not have a partner in the future, would you be at her deathbed?

Yes. 

6. Would you want her to be there at your last hours(I know you have met someone but her as a plus one)?

No. 

7. Maybe you answered these already. I Apologize if you have. I didn't manage to read all 180something pages. 

I don't believe I've answered questions 4-5-6 so thank you for asking.  

8. I am just wondering (having already made my mind to leave)  if my husband, even if he never comes out of the closet, once I am out of his way, would his kindness and humor he showed at the beginning return? Not that I would ever get back in that mess.

It's impossible for me to predict how he will act once you leave with your son. 

9. I miss the man I fell in love with so much. It all feels so wrong now. I think he did have true feelings for me initially like you did for your wife. Very protective, so kind, so understanding, so keen to learn about me and to share what he knew... we dated a long time. It is only a year after the wedding the metamorphosis started.

Given this statement, I think it's safe to assume that he pretended to be this person: 

Very protective, so kind, so understanding, so keen to learn about me and to share what he knew...

and the man you're with now is who he truly is. Once you leave and effectively stop acting like his beard (Urban Dictionary: Beard), there is no way to predict how he's going to react. But given the information provided so far, I would be prepared for a lot of anger and retaliation. Good luck my friend and please keep us posted. 

Hello again LIT. In reply: 

1. Considering you loved your ex as a beard but never had real feelings or emotions for her as a human being, is the love for your children fake too? Is that feeling also just from attachment and memories?

That's an excellent question. As a deeply closeted gay man and narcissist, my feelings towards my former spouse and children were largely performative. While closeted, I thrived on the approval of family and friends, not love. As I shared in my podcast interview, I didn't have the capacity to love because I spent all day, every day, fighting to hide my sexuality. At the time, I had about all the capacity to love as a praying mantis. Now out and no longer living in fear, I have genuine love and affection for my children. It was rocky for the early years following separation, divorce, and coming out, but now I love them very much for who they are and not for the approval/status/cover they provide me.   

2. Is it social responsibilities or morals that make you remain in their lives as a father? As a person who cared so much to appear straight to the world, is it a continuation to appear you are still a great father despite being gay? Sorry if I am offending you.

You're not offending me as these are excellent and insightful questions. I went through "gay adolescence" during the dying days of my marriage and for a time after separation. During this time, I did things with my kids purely out of a sense of obligation and/or performance. Now that I'm no longer acting like a petulant teen, and now that my kids love/accept me as their gay dad, my relationship with my three kids has healed. But it took time.  

3. I understand women who decide to go through pregnancy from rape, who hate the rapist but still love the child somehow because as a mother, there is a biological connection. But the rapist wouldn't give a damn about it.

Troubling. 

4. Maybe the comparison is wrong but I hope you get the gist I am trying to explain here. And thanks again for the truth. Makes my departure even easier.

I think I understand what you're asking, namely: 

- Did my husband ever love me? 
- How will my husband act/react when I leave? 
- Did he ever love our son? 
- How will he be as a father following separation/divorce? 

I think these questions are best answered by fellow members of the forum and perhaps by a mental health professional who has experience with coming out, narcissism, and divorce. In my unprofessional opinion and based on the information you have provided here, your future ex-husband appears to be deeply closeted. Please keep in mind that he may continue living in two worlds: outwardly straight but also living a hidden paralell existence. (You mentioned something about your husband having a secret appartment for gay hook ups.) So please keep in mind that these two worlds may never merge, particularly as he ages. A good reasource if you're interested would be "The Velvet Rage" by Dr. Alan Downs. There is a chapter on "splitting" which is the stage your husband currently lives in: gay online and then straight with his family. For me personally, while in my own closet, I lacked the ability to love others because I always saw relationships as conditional. Conditional because I had to be ready to end the relationship if they found out my secret (gay). While I think it's very healthy and normal to focus on your future ex-husband, I wouldn't lose a lifetime trying to figure him out nor solve his problems from afar. Once you two separate/divorce, he's no longer your responsibility. You'll then be free to lavish all of that love and affection on yourself, your son, and your own family. I hope that helps. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean (January 12, 2022 5:02 am)