Back off on the fighting and anger if you can. Forget about sex for the moment.  You guys are exhausted and stressed. Some loving space given to each other, maybe some non confrontational practical discussion about home help, managing stress and fatigue might benefit both of you. Be kind to one another.

I also suggest you both seek individual counselling, but that your wife see a post abortion grief counsellor to start with. https://www.rachelsvineyard.org/  Its a real thing and can be deeply wounding for women and men involved in the very difficult and traumatic decision to terminate.  You might need to address it too. There may also be unresolved grief from the miscarriages between you. 

Especially if your wife finds it difficult to articulate feelings, needs or anger, she will be in overwhelm so its bursting out in a burning stream with running away looking like the only way to get some relief. I may be wrong of course but I am like this so what you are describing sounds familiar.

You are both TIRED and there's a lot going on with little respite for a number of years.  Try to allow for both of you to get adequate rest, even if it means separate beds or rooms for a while.   And try to give each other some time away from the kids.  Give each other breaks.

You've done great getting time off and looking at lessening your workload temporarily.

I had five kids under 10 and little money- its bloody exhausting. (((Hugs)))

See how she responds to your efforts to make life a bit easier.  You both have a tough gig.

Last edited by Soaplife (October 29, 2021 1:15 am)

Soaplife wrote:

Back off on the fighting and anger if you can. Forget about sex for the moment. You guys are exhausted and stressed. Some loving space given to each other, maybe some non confrontational practical discussion about home help, managing stress and fatigue might benefit both of you. Be kind to one another.

There is very little outward anger to be honest - when I say I'm angry its internalised anger.  The best way I can think to describe it, is that I'm angry not at her being gay but at her lack of communication about being unhappy.  To a degree I understand the trepidation and uncertainty (I have close friends who have came out as gay - some early in life, others later on) but I feel angry that she couldn't speak to me about the fact she was unhappy/unsure/not fulfilled.  That might not be justified if I was part of the reason, but it how I feel non-the-less.  As for sex - yeah it's weaved into the story because that's how the conversation came about, but for me right now it's not important.  It's intimacy more than sex I'd like - a hug, a hand to hold; a kiss on the head. 

Soaplife wrote:

I also suggest you both seek individual counselling, but that your wife see a post abortion grief counsellor to start with. Its a real thing and can be deeply wounding for women and men involved in the very difficult and traumatic decision to terminate. You might need to address it too. There may also be unresolved grief from the miscarriages between you.

Thank you for this suggestion - truth be told it's probably 12 years overdue.  I recognise (and have done since the time) that the decision impacted us very differently. 

Soaplife wrote:

Especially if your wife finds it difficult to articulate feelings, needs or anger, she will be in overwhelm so its bursting out in a burning stream with running away looking like the only way to get some relief. I may be wrong of course but I am like this so what you are describing sounds familiar.

You are both TIRED and there's a lot going on with little respite for a number of years. Try to allow for both of you to get adequate rest, even if it means separate beds or rooms for a while. And try to give each other some time away from the kids. Give each other breaks.

Tiredness is a common theme yes.  Which is why we (in truth I take the lead at organising these days/breaks) do take semi-regular breaks with just the two of us, or more frequently time with us (or just her) and the older kids (who are less physically demanding).  The night she came out was in fact one of these nights (see OP).  I've always had hobbies and friendship groups - and I know that in the past I've been guilty of going out too much, which is something we have spoken about and I have actively and successfully tailored back.  I guess reflecting on this, it is in part how I dealt with becoming a father so young and the fear of "missing out", but when it became an issue (probably more about how it was selfish rather than actually being out) I valued our love and marriage enough to change my behaviour.  I have to accept that in the past I've hurt my wife, I know that.  However I've also always given her space to do her own thing to.  I've always said that any time she wants to go out (lunch, dinner, drinks, clubbing, whatever) then that would be fine with me (not that she needed permission).  I've always helped with the kids, helped with the housework.  I'm aware of the pressure women can come under in home-life, so I've really done my best here.  But by and large (with a few exceptions) she HASN'T gone out, she doesn't nip to the pub, or go for dinner with friends, or go out to gigs or whatever.  Maybe that's an erosion of her social life over years (similarly as I was a young father, she was a young mother) or maybe it's because she's struggled to face up to the kind of activities she really wants to do (lesbian bars or clubs).  We need to speak more about this.

Soaplife wrote:

You've done great getting time off and looking at lessening your workload temporarily.

I am constantly swirling in circles about this.  I don't feel "depressed", and I worry that I'm letting people down by not working.  I don't actually think I am depressed (the GP said I had situational anxiety and was going through an adjustment reaction) so part of me thinks I need to buckle up and get back to work - to protect our income, to protect my career, to give me something else to focus on.  But I keep coming back to the fact that if I HAD better job security, sick pay, and wasn't on probation, then I WOULD use that and wouldn't be in work.  I've used the time to be reflective - lots of walks in the Highlands, time with kids, reading, wallowing in sad music (okay maybe that's not helpful...) - and I don't feel a burning desire to get back to work.  Part of my worry is about the upheaval that is to come - emotionally, practically, and with family relationships - and that working through that wouldn't give time to heal and put solutions in place.  I'm in a quandry.  I've sought advice from Citizen's Advice and my Trade Union.  I could defer the probation year (no black marks held on record or anything like that) and jointly we could access benefits that SHOULD cover our bills (might have to tighten the belt with groceries and non-essentials) and it's not that I don't feel I CAN'T work at all - so maybe in a month or two (or post Christmas) I could take a non-stressful part-time role or something.  To be honest... all this reflecting is making me ask what I really want to do (is it teaching?) and I don't have an answer.  I don't think that's that uncommon though - most of us work to pay the mortgage, and I do enjoy the job (not necessarily all parts).  But if this is going to be a life defining and life changing period for us, maybe it's time to assess that too?  Part of the reason I retrained as a teacher was the job security, the generous wage, both which would give our family more security and stability into our future.  That future seemingly is no longer there (although obviously the kids are) and part of me questions if the reasons I went into the job are valid anymore...  I know I need to answer that, and even defering for a year is just kicking the can down the road.

Soaplife wrote:

I had five kids under 10 and little money- its bloody exhausting. (((Hugs)))

See how she responds to your efforts to make life a bit easier. You both have a tough gig.

It is.  Thank you for reminding me, it gets forgotten a lot of the time.  Maybe part of this is why I felt everything was going fine.  On the face of things we appeared a very happy family.  In fact my wife said she often resented when other people would comment on this as it made her feel false or guilty.  I'm planning to try and talk to her about just trying to address our home life - seeking help with child care, allowing for her to have free time, talking about past traumas, speaking about things more.  Maybe I'm naive in thinking this addresses or takes away the fact that she is gay (and I am obviously not a woman) but I need to know that if we do separate, it's not down to things we could have resolved and didn't try.

I've had a bad few days - we tentatively talked about making plans to separate (I'm trying to listen to what she wants) but then I felt I wasn't putting across what I want enough, or showing willingness to resolve things (as above).  Work worries, and just general sadness, have left me quite unsure of everything.  I don't want to move too fast and lose any chance of staying together, but equally I'm in a place where everything (EVERYTHING) is being questioned and she isn't.  She's had months (if not longer) to come to this place (which I know must have been very hard).  How long is too long to stay and avoid healing?  How soon is too soon to move?  I have no idea (there is no right answer really) and it's tough.  Space is a premium in our undersized house, so maybe some agreed time away is best, but equally I don't want to run and hide.  But accepting things and planning to separate also doesn't feel right. 

I could have written this three years ago.  I'll give you some of the direct advice I wish I had received.  Do with it what you will.

1.  You can't save your marriage if your spouse wants out.  No amount of pleading, convincing or bargaining will work.  And you will mentally damage yourself in the process.

2.  Your marriage's issues relate to one thing:  you're not the lesbian she never told you she needed.  Your desire to acknowledge your shortcomings is a pointless task because even if you could magically solve for your "shortcomings", you cannot solve for THE deal-breaking shortcoming (i.e., she's a lesbian).  My ex-wife tried to gaslight the hell out of me and make me think that the demise of our marriage was somehow my fault.  And I wanted to save my family so much that I believed her for a while.  Do not fall into this trap.

3.  It's better for children to be from a broken home than in a broken home.  Living under the duress of being married to a lesbian is no picnic, and you cannot be the father that your children deserve.  The energy you squander -- trying to keep the family together?  pretend everything is ok? fake your life? -- on your lesbian wife rightfully belongs to you and to your children.  One of your jobs as a parent is to model a healthy relationship for them, and this is impossible under your current situation.

4.  This IS what she wants.  No parent would forfeit 50% of their time with their children if this were not what they wanted.  Don't try to figure out her thought processes because it's impossible to figure out what a pathologically dishonest person is thinking.  (And yes, you have described someone who has an honesty problem.)

5.  You mention that your wife has had a lot of time alone recently.  I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect she already has a woman on the side.  (This all too often seems to be the catalyst for disclosure.). They give same-sex interaction a spin, and realize it's what they actually need.  This is what happened with my ex-wife -- she started her covert affair with a woman and that was it.  She then threw me into the donation bin.

Good luck, and keep posting.  Lots of good people here who can help!

Things have progressed since initially posting here.  It's now four weeks since my wife informed me of her true sexuality.  Four weeks since we had those initial discussions, since I desperately wanted to believe I could "fix" things, or carve out a way to maintain a loving relationship.  Four weeks of being off work, since I've felt "normal", since things haven't just been laden with stress and anxiety and sadness and anger.

I'm still off work.  I need to extend my sick-line with the GP on Monday, and I have a meeting with the headteacher of my school on Monday afternoon.  I've submitted my request to defer my probation year to next August.  I have things on relatively good grounds that my request should be granted, probably within the next week, at which stage I'll have the safety net of employment and continuing my career next August (2022), but will become unemployed.  Having made this choice, which is far from ideal and certainly not how I envisaged things panning out when I started this school term, I did feel less burdened.  I think, in the circumstances, it's the right thing to do.

That decision though has knocked some other things into clearer and more immediate focus.  Medium term I plan to find part-time (or even full-time) work in a less stressful enviroment.  I've looked at a few things which I know I'd be more than capable off, and could apply for within the next few weeks.  I could even apply for (and given the job market here at the moment would get) a service job in retail close by.  Basically, I'll have income, I'll have something to do during the days, and I'll not be forced to live on the breadline.

My individual counselling is due to start on Tuesday and I'm hopeful (although have no prior experience with counselling) that it'll help.  I'm still pretty stressed and anxious about things, not sleeping great, appitite isn't there, and I've found I'm really clenching my jaw a lot which is causing a bit of pain.  So I'm hoping that speaking and dealing with emotional feelings and my mental health can help with this.  As for couples counselling, my wife has agreed to this and we should get a session on the NHS in the next 6-8 weeks (financially it's not viable for us to book private sessions right now).  Again, I hope that can prove helpful in us speaking openly to each other in a controlled environment about things and long term mean we won't harbour resentment.  Who knows though - I'm still pretty angry about things, while trying to understand her side of things.  I think it's the lying - even if it has mainly been to herself, the fact she hasn't faced up to her sexuality and the true cause of her unhappiness for all these years (we are talking going back to high school days) means by extension she's lied to me as a boyfriend, as a partner, and as a husband.

We've agreed that we can't live together.  It's too hard for me.  I know that she does not want to "save" or "fix" things.  Our relationship as a married couple is over (albeit divorce will take a lot longer to sort out).  She is gay, I am not a woman.  Everything else is superfluous to this.  I need time to be apart from her.  I don't know how you go about "not loving" someone anymore, but I know that I need time and space away from her to at least start to try and compartmentalise and rationalise those feelings.  So to that end, I am going to very short term move in with my parents (who I have not told yet but I know will be supportive) and then once my employment situation is clearer seek a flat.  Long term I need to obviously find a suitable home for our children to be part of, but that will involve time and money.  Moving out right now is short term purely for the benefit of my own headspace.

We've agreed that we will tell the kids a week tonight.  I'm dreading it, I can feel the anxiety eating at me already.  I'm worried about how they will take it.  But she has agreed that it will be the truth - mum is gay and that is why we are splitting.  I'll stick around at home for a few nights, up to a week, to be "on hand" to help the kids with their reaction and processing of this.  I don't want to tell them, uproot their world, and then leave meaning they can't talk to me (or I to them) if they want.  Once I've moved out we've agreed a schedule where I'll stay at our house and she will move out - so in essence we will be splitting our time with the kids with one of us staying at home, the other staying elsewhere and then vice versa. 

We've started to talk about money - and it's the one time (emotion aside) that I feel has the potential to be tricky.  The truth is even with me working full time as a teacher, we are stretched each month.  Debt, rising costs (thanks Brexit...) and all the usual family events, mean we get by just.  So short term, me not working will impact (so it's important to find something ASAP) but we've started to separate things out, looked at what we can claim, looked at what savings we have, and we'll survive.  Again (on both sides I guess) we have to trust (which is hard for obvious reasons) that we can be adult and respectful about things.  I hope we can, but it'll be something that's under constant review. 

I had two nights away this week (again up in the Highlands) and it helps clear my head.  I made a playlist of all the songs that have a connection to her.  I wrote about them.  I wrote her a letter.  I wrote an angry letter.  I wrote a love letter.  I just tried to empty my thoughts onto paper.  I drank.  I walked.  I slept.  I think it all helped.  Now I'm back, I can't say I'm "happy" but I'm at least clearer on what is happening. 

I'm out tomorrow with friends (pre-planned for months and will need to stay low key just because of money) and I think I'm going to speak to them about what's happening.  Again I'm anxious about that, but in my head it's one step on the path to accepting and coming to terms with what is happening. 

Again, this is quite a long post, and doesn't really have any specific questions as such.  Like all of us at first, I don't know what I don't know, and everything is really uncertain not just short term but long term too.  The thought of the "future" really scares me.  But it's too big a fear to confront right now.  I need to get through the emotion and practicalities of the here and now first.  Our wedding anniversary (12 years) is in 8 days time.  That's going to be tough.

Last edited by oilslick (November 5, 2021 7:31 pm)

It sounds like you are being incredibly emotionally mature in the most unbalancing of circumstances.  Know that you are doing really well, however difficult this all feels.  I wish you well with your counselling.  I saw in your original post that you said you wouldn't be able to afford counselling privately, so I'm glad you have been able to access some.  It's worth knowing that a great many counsellors in private practice will offer reduced fees and there are also low cost services out there.