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October 19, 2021 2:57 pm  #21


Re: Probably sounds familiar

So what you are saying is that if you told your parents they would be upset with their daughter in law on your behalf.  I am just writing that out, even if you can't access their support right now.

not really what i am saying is that i just need my parents to focus on supporting the children and i dont need them giving me advice as it will be totally one sided, its enough they know the marriage is in trouble and some of the reasons why, my whole support network knows about the sexuality bar them so i have enough input from others to leave this bit out for now,as if i told them i would be "outing" my wife to someone she knows, she knows my best friend who does know she is "out" but he doesn't gravitate into any other social circle and has no real contact with my parents





But do you really need to wait and see if the meds and counselling work?   what do you think they are going to do about her being same sex attracted?  

i am not trying to stop her her being same sex attracted, the meds/counselling are to get her to a place where she can function and make a rational choice about her future, if at that point she says game over then that is exactly what is is and i can start my new life, if however she doesn't want to separate and is willing to be intimate again then its my decision whether or not i want to stay with her.

What you can do is stop speaking about her as if she's a teenager you have to protect. She's not and you don't have to. If your wife is neglecting her responsibilities...that's her choice, and I wouldn't be glossing over it by justifying it as something you feel you have to help her through. She's an adult

its not as cut and dried as that , i am telling her she is neglecting the children and holding up a mirror to her behaviour but i believe she is not gaslighting me in that her depression is the key factor with that.

at the end of the day i am working from a baseline that our marriage is over but is needs to be disengaged in such a way that the children come to least harm through it, hence why i am asking for coping strategies advice as this is going to be a slow burn

Last edited by jamieblunt (October 19, 2021 2:58 pm)

 

October 19, 2021 3:00 pm  #22


Re: Probably sounds familiar

p.s  i really do appreciate all the posts, it all valuable insight

     Thread Starter
 

October 20, 2021 5:13 am  #23


Re: Probably sounds familiar

Lomgwayhome

i had a cathartic chat with her last night, and used totally clear language about what is at stake and how i am feeling, i don't believe it is because she doesn't care i think at the moment she does not have the capacity to care, but i had been feeling angry since the weekend and last night got a proper load off my chest to her, she was in tears (not floods) but compared to the normal emotionless reactions that is progress.
i totally clear language i am talking to her about separation, divorce, selling the house, destroying her relationship with her children and effectively doing to them what her parents did to her.

her big takeaway comment was "i just want to die"  don't jump on this as i have known her for 21 years and you didn't see her face, she isn't an actress and isn't a master manipulator, yes she is taking advantage of me not shirking my duties but, its all an endgame for me know, the sooner i can have her mentally better the sooner i can move on with my life in whatever direction.

this isn't a new thing but again i brought up the subject of me giving her a free pass to explore whatever she needs to but its not a philanthropic gesture from me, its very much for me because the moment she has physical contact with another human being she has to answer my question of our intimacy, and regardless of her mental state if she goes through with it then as far as i am concerned she is fit enough to answer my question and from that i can formulate my next choices.
i have literally given her an open goal with this trip to her "friend" in November and yes she could hide it from me if something happend but she is under no illusion that if she cheats then that is also a decision she has made and we are done.

i am not playing a dangerous game here as from my POV she is already lost to me but the sooner she actually acts on whatever it is she wants the sooner i can get out of my waiting room and get back on the front foot, an added benefit of this is i don't want her hiding behind our marriage or the family as a reason not to act on her desires and prolonging whatever it is i am going through.

options i have discussed with her in a one way fashion as she is nowhere near able to make a decision but to reflect the gravity of the situation

we stay together, she accepts she has feelings for women but they stay just that feelings, just like i may see an attractive lady but it does'nt mean i would ever do anything about it(this one is entirely dependant on our intimacy coming back)

We separate,  one of us moves out  - very tricky in our current financial situation

We separate, we co-habit but lead separate romantic lives away from the family unit-at least until the children are adults

we stay together ,intimacy returns to whatever level i expect but she also has a female intimate partner but that is done away from the family unit- this one is very theoretical as i haven't fully processed it myself and would probably fall down very quickly if the female partner was getting the best of it and i was not getting an equal fist of it.

we separate/divorce we sell the family home, this one would be very hard for her as our daughter would want to live with her but our son would want to live with me. i honestly don't care if it was hard for her as this is all her own doing

the upshot of all of this is the house we are in,is my dream house and perfect for the children to have their own space during their teenage years, i will not leave the house to facilitate my wife starting a new life whilst retaining the benefits of our hard work hence me moving out is the very last option and that could only happen if i felt she was capable of being a mother again.

     Thread Starter
 

October 20, 2021 7:03 am  #24


Re: Probably sounds familiar

Jamie, that all sounds really complicated. Too many options. You get tears not answers, no adult engagement or meeting you halfway. You have no idea if she is listening to you at all, let alone accepting any conditions or ultimatums you are setting. "I want to die" is not an answer. If you think she intends self harm call an ambulance.

You can't control her, Jamie. You only control you.

She is an adult, not your kid.  Her health is her responsibility, not yours. You can't make her better.

I think your time and energy would be better directed into consulting a lawyer and making plans that don't include her.

She is an adult capable of doing the same - Jamie, she already is living a life that doesn't include you.

Last edited by Soaplife (October 20, 2021 7:07 am)

 

October 20, 2021 7:27 am  #25


Re: Probably sounds familiar

all fair observations but i havent included most of what she said to me (but it was far less than what i said)

one of irritations people have with me is a plan everything for the good, the bad and the ugly, so we go for a family trip and i plan the route and a diversion in case we have problems, i plan were we will park and how to get there and a back up car park and how i get to that, it comes from having a pilots licence (now sadly lapsed) and the fact i like planning things, its also something to occupy my mind rather than sitting on the sofa staring at the walls wondering what misery she is about to inflict on me next.
my post life plans (of which i have about 5 for different circumstances) would make your hair stand on end with the complexity, but its doesnt matter as every step of the way when things change i adapt my plan and eventually i will come out somewhere but having plans calms me and when the rage descends it gives me something to cling onto.

if i'm honest although considering legal advice i'm not there yet, my thoughts are give this to christmas to play out and see where everything is and then if nothing is changing start to change things myself.
i cannot undo 21 years easily or rush into this as its just as critical for me as it is for her

Last edited by jamieblunt (October 20, 2021 7:28 am)

     Thread Starter
 

October 20, 2021 7:44 am  #26


Re: Probably sounds familiar

i am just going to roll back on something here

yes she is going out and immersing herself in the culture to the detriment of me and to some extent the children, but i do believe this is a reaction to locking herself away for 15 years being the perfect mother as well as exploring the itch she refused to scratch for all of her adult life.

i don't believe she is yet having an affair, yes she got giggly and excitable last sunday morning going out but unless she has the worlds greatest poker face she isn't displaying the signs of someone starting an affair(and i do know her very well after 21 years)

the children being teenagers really don't want much to do with us and mostly want to be on their own (which is how teenagers should be if they want to leave the nest) we discussed this last night as i felt some resentment from her about it, but she just has to get over it, they were her babies and she had complete control and now she doesnt.

i agree about the depression comment and some can get out of bed when they are at a 9 out of 10 ,i recently read alastair campbells book about depression to try and get a small understanding as he is the same when its really bad, but he did also say that everyones depression is different and that really bad depression can manifest in many different ways, and in one of many "discussions" i have thrown this at her, her comeback is that the time away is a distraction from her real thoughts (of suicide) but its also helping her to carry on working as its breaks the work-home-work cycle and gives her something to look forward to (and yes that should also count towards us but she has been at the coalface so to speak for 15 years without a break) so her disengaging from us does make a sort of sense.
i am not making excuses for her or trying to protect her but i have to try and see it from her side,this isnt only about her sexuality its also about her life choices and how she has exhausted herself being the perfect mother and at the same time repressing her sexuality all her adult life and all the other OCDs that come with her personality.


all of your comments are valuable and i appreciate the insight greatly but i do have to take them and put them in context with my situation, some of the life stories on here are truly awful and i'm almost grateful that mine so far is nowhere as extreme, having these opinions come at me is so helpful even if i seem to you as "in denial" or trying to manage her.

i really am not but i am trying to make my crash landing as survivable as possible and you guys really are helping

     Thread Starter
 

October 20, 2021 7:55 am  #27


Re: Probably sounds familiar

 Planning is good but know the best laid out plans, can still fail. So you have to be flexible, if things don’t improve for you by Christmas, your own timeline limit, make sure you take some type of action, otherwise, no action, tells her something, doesn’t it? 

you are much better at this than me,what took me hundreds of words you have nailed on the head with that sentence

i have laid little breadcrumb markers to keep an eye on this, for example my very clear instruction that she was t be at home with the children the weekend of the 30/31 as i am going away for my decompress, if she meddles in any way with that i will have one of my answers.

     Thread Starter
 

October 20, 2021 9:22 am  #28


Re: Probably sounds familiar

Jamie, only you know the full story and what your timeline and tipping points might be, and what is ultimately best for your kids and you.

I was a project administrator for a while so plans and implementing plans was my thing - risk management, contingency plans, disaster recovery plans, controlling the environment, reducing uncertainty, milestones, benchmarks - its calming and I absolutely get it. It helps. It certainly helped me plan my safe and efficient exit from my abusive marriage.

I hope you enjoy your night out with the lads, and get a few more enjoyable times in.  A bit of time out and some healthy physical activity can help keep your stress and anger easier to manage. 

No lie, this early stage you are in sucks.  You already sound less shattered and I hope you can reach a level of detachment along the way that will help the pain be less excruciating and the temper flares moderate a bit.  I know that burning indignation believe me.

I was 25 years married with 5 kids so I know how hard deciding what to do is and what is at stake. I know the loss involved.

I also know that once you tackle the hard things without flinching the pain is finite. You get through it. The further away I get from that life the more disordered  and dysfunctional it looks.  5 years out and I can't believe I put up with gxh's abusive shit so meekly for so long. I take that shit from no-one any more.

Wish you well on the path, and things will become clearer the further along you get. Keep making plans :-)

 

October 21, 2021 1:22 am  #29


Re: Probably sounds familiar

you lot are pretty good at this!

so last night i took the wife for her pre flight covid test, and used the car to get her talk to me about stuff and it was again very cathartic and she opened up a little, at the moment she feels very lesbian and probably doesnt want to be intimate with me and i said thats ok as it backs up my baseline that our marriage is over and gives me a sort solid ground beneath my feet even if the the worst case scenario.

went to bed feeling calm then shes texts me from upstairs and asks when exactly i was going away the following weekend and i knew what was coming, she was trying to organise a meet up with her new friend between the day she got back (wednesday to the sunday before we all go back to work)
so i had to put my foot down and told her she could not, i dont care about me and her but as a mother her first instinct after being away 5 days should be to be with her daughter, and yes almost a dad to a teenage daughter lecture ensued about childless lesbians treating children like a commodity that can be moved around or bargained away, i asked her if i was being unreasonable and she could only answer "No" as its not.
i also pointed out if i wanted to be a twat i could let her carry on doing this sort of thing to turn the children against her but i am not prepared to use my daughter as collateral damage and let my wife damage her to achieve some Machiavellian plot.

i did however tell her if she tried anything those four days that did not include our daughter that she should go and live somewhere else as i dont want her damaging my daughter and it would be an unforgiveable act.

i came up with an arse idea about her taking our daughter to london and meeting up with her friend which was a little Machiavellian as i thought if she is a true friend it would not matter to her that she brought her daughter but if shes only after sex then it may put her off, to which my wife tells me to "stop orchestrating my life" which to be fair she was  a little spot on but it was a sneaky from me ,but sitting her typing this it sort of makes sense form what my wife is saying that if they are "just good friends" the friend should love to see her daughter.

anyhow nothing has changed i still move forward as you say one day at a time holding a mirror up to her face when required and trying to formulate a strategy to detach myself from activities but i cant if i think it will have a negative impact on either of our children.

Last edited by jamieblunt (October 21, 2021 1:22 am)

     Thread Starter
 

October 21, 2021 2:42 am  #30


Re: Probably sounds familiar

Jamie, good job, you are listening to her now, listening to how she responds, and watching what she does. This will tell you a great deal more than anything else.

See - the teen thing is true isn't it.  I brought up 5 kids but still someone had to point out to me that my gxh was acting like a spoiled, selfish, entitled teen.

My kids never got a pass but fuckwit sure as hell did for a lot of years!

Keep coming here, it really helps to hear other peoples experiences - it changes your perspective and opens your eyes to the tricks and subterfuges they pretty much all use to some extent.  We all survived and you will too.

I always recommend chumplady.com too - she cuts through the bs and is pretty funny too. Theres tons of handy advice in the archives.

Soldier on. You are doing great in a tough situation.

 

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