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October 6, 2021 5:13 am  #1


How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

I did post on here years ago but got scared and asked for my account to be removed. Well nothing has changed in that time and I find myself reaching out to your amazing organisation once again, thank you for being here.
I have been married for 21 years and together for 24, I have thought my wife is bi or gay for probably 10-15 years, and for the rest before that I was simply confused and scared and tried to understand what was wrong, all of which was met with ignorance, denial, and anger on the part of my wife.
Our relationship is perfect except for sex, our sex life has never been good, well I say that but looking back I guess the first year or 2 was, but it quickly reduced to little (like a few times a year), I decided to spice things up and brought some fun clothes and toys, my wife seemed offended that I had done this, and this resulted in our sex life stopping completely. One day I came accross some lesbian magazines and one of the toys I had brought, accompanied by about 2 dozen dead batteries. I confronted my wife about this she assured me the magazines were from her X, and refused to even talk about the toys, in the heat of the argument that ensued she said 'My sex life is nothing to do with you, and I want nothing to do with yours'! As you can imagine I was shocked and didn't know what to do with this news, I decided at this time to leave, I can't tell you how I wish this is what I had done at the time, but I didn't. I was vunerable when I met my wife as a result of previous sexual trauma I had happen to me when I was a teenager, this was the first relationship of any kind I had ever really had, I was 26 and my wife was in her 30's with 2 kids and an X partner, who it turned out left her for another woman and has never had any contact with any of his friends or family ever since, and little to no contact with his children who are now grown up with families. At the time I didn't know what to think, I had no expireence of relationships or x partners and didn't know what was normal or not. What I did learn was that my wife meant what she said, our sex life pretty much dissapeared after that, despite me trying everything and anything to bring it to life, but I stayed because she kept telling me it was okay, she loved me, our sex life was fine, it was normal for sex to tail of after the first couple of years, and anyway we make love, not have sex..... Plus a whole bunch of other stuff that I had no idea was true or not, but as I had nothing to compare it to and nobody to I felt I could confide in I sucked it up and here I am over 20 years later feeling and thinking the same things as I was then. The difference now is that I know there is nothing normal about our sex life, and although it has changed at different times over the years and sometimes we do have sex, and sometimes it is amazing, the bottom line is that my wife still treats our sex life as something less important that basically anything else, but especially her own sex life, which is and always has been busy, crazy and it would appear totally fullfilled without me, despite her claiming that she rarely if ever even masterbates.
But things have changed, in the past her sex life was just hers, she would encourage and arrange for me to go out on a regular basis, evenings, weekends, and I ended up travelling for work as it was easier to be away than be at home knowing this was going on regularly and that I was not a part of it. I now think she is having an affair with one of her best friends of many years, this friend also came out of a relationship and is in a new one with a man, but she comes for massage (My wife trained as a massage therapist after we got married) and I am not sure that the massage is not sexual. She has now just been away for the weekend with this person albeit to see a mutual friend who is ill, but it just felt odd to me, they both seem to be trying a bit to hard to make it appear that everything is normal.
The problem I have is what do I focus on, I have all these scary, confusing and upsetting feelings, if I am wrong about all this then I need to get back to therapy and proabaly be sectioned, but if not wtf do I do, if I leave I have nothing, no children of my own, I feel like she will never come out so if I leave she will carry on in denial, do I tell the kids? And if I do she will likely kill me, I have nothing left without her, I love her family, all our friends are now mutual, I have nobody to talk to, my own family was torn apart by sexual abuse of both of my Nephews by their step father which divided the family and I ended up being accused of colaborating with my Nephews to frame this guy who 'aledgedly' abused them, which is all BS but it has left me with no support network of my own, no friends, no family that isn't my wifes, and nobody to confide in other than councilors, of which I have seem quite a few but ended up relaising that they won't actually say anything or have an opinion, they just listen, which is sometimes helpful but I need something more than that now.

I have read the first aid kit but other than councilling I don't know how to initiate those support networks, I simply don't have any, and have no idea how to find any other than professional councillors, which frankly after covid are like hens teeth. I feel so desparetely alone, as I sit here crying any trying to type, I read one of the posts yesterday which said to find someone to hug, but I burst into tears everytime I think about it because I can't think of anyone I can, can someone send me a virtual one please......

Right now I can't imagine ever being happy, I feel like the best years of my life are over and I have spent them worried and scared and wishing things were different but not knowing what to do.



 

 

October 6, 2021 8:03 am  #2


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

Hi Fiddlesticks,

I find it very hard to take - the way the closet gay wives don't seem to care one iota about what effect a lack of affection and intimacy is having on their husband.

I experienced the same from my GIDXH.

It really matters, doesn't it.

You are not alone.  Just in my life there are two men I cry over and several I feel for who are in the same boat.  I'm really worried about it.  As you say, you are left with nothing if you move but you are already feeling the pinch of starvation and it is waking up to a nightmare for sure.  This is a common experience.  

It's real.  I am sorry.  Virtual hug coming your way.
 


 

 

October 6, 2021 1:43 pm  #3


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

Thank you for your responses, and the hugs, they made me cry again.....
So I will consider your words at length, but an immediate issue I am struggling with is how do I behave now? I am now aware that this is most likely real and is really happening I feel more scared than ever, my spouse will always deflect conversations related to our sex life, but she is also aware that I am sad, depressed, have things on my mind etc... And will drill me to find out what is wrong, in order to help, apparently, but if my response relates in any way to 'us' it will result in aggression and anger, this often causes me to revert to it being my issue, my problem, caused by me or something I have been through. So if I could do with anything now it would be to know how to navigate this..... Do I focus on avoiding showing my sad, depressed feelings, on the real issue and trying to talk about it, avoid any kind of confrontation or what? I would appreciate any thoughts on this.....

     Thread Starter
 

October 6, 2021 2:27 pm  #4


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

fiddlesticks wrote:

...... So if I could do with anything now it would be to know how to navigate this..... Do I focus on avoiding showing my sad, depressed feelings, on the real issue and trying to talk about it, avoid any kind of confrontation or what? .....

 

I can only tell you how I did it Fiddlesticks. Firstly I kept it to myself (I shouldn't have, keeping it inside only perpetuated the feeling that this was my fault and I was the one who had to accept what was happening. Looking sad only elicited what I now consider was his low-level, false empathy)
After a while I laid my pain out in front of him and let him see it. All of it. Crying was good but only to a point. He would become angry, dismissive, cold. It took me far to long to realise that the pattern of my sadness, that he would roll his eyes at....was also his pattern/reaction....and that the only way to change it was to be smarter than the pattern.

Finally the switch clicked on "I've been doing this, he knows it upsets me, he understands but only as far as his patience allows him. This is not working"
So gradually I started doing things for me, after admitting to myself the norm of doing everything together bound us together as a couple and the couple we were kept the bisexual man he was...hidden. For years I had been scared to lose the man who had changed...in the worst possible way.... how I felt about myself.
I had always been the one to talk about 'us', our issues, while he always strained to get away from it by using annoyance/tiredness/frustration to shoo me away. When I stopped doing it (also stating I was no longer interested in a sexual r'ship with him)...it was like a strength at my core "I am right to do this".

Sadly he didn't read the script (in my imagination) where he was supposed to get so frustrated, so starved that he couldn't take it anymore....and open up to me and say....whatever, "I'm leaving, it's over, I can't do this. Let's separate amicably...I'll do right by you" ..and I'm not quite ready to do it either. We don't talk about it. He must  have a knot of sexual frustration (I think. Who knows how he handles it). I know I'll forever have a knot of resentment that for 25-30 years I thought my life was perfect but now know it can never end truly happy.

Fiddlesticks...this has all happened over the last 4 years. I feel comfortably caught in a web of my own choosing but I know longer worry about losing the person I thought was my soulmate

Elle 

Edited to add....I realise there is sometimes a difference in the sexual needs of a man and those of a woman. Like....a man often has a greater (simple by the nature of his maleness) sexual need, so your feelings about this may be less accepting than mine. 
 

Last edited by Ellexoh_nz (October 6, 2021 2:41 pm)


KIA KAHA                       
 

October 6, 2021 2:28 pm  #5


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

Fiddlesticks,

A warm big hug.  Virtual but authentic and real.

As part of the in person straight spouse support groups I received hugs from the strangers (to me) and I can't tell you how important it was.  Besides not getting any physical contact from my GX anymore what struck me was how  complete strangers could give me a hug and it felt authentic..there was no hidden agenda, secret or lie...these kind folks had only best wishes for me.

So do we.

A support system is good to build..it could be a priest or pastor to start. A therapist.  You could also join a meet up group online in some hobby you are interested in..not for support with TGT but to get your mind off it. I think you will see even if talk to the grocery store and make small talk with the them that people are generally more authentic than your wife.

So sorry but she is having an affair..be it sexual or emotional ..with her friend.   It's a horrible feeling but I assure you that these spouses are not gods or the only woman or men on the planet.   Know that not being around someone that is lying to you is much better than being around them. Alone is much better than being with a liar.   

Sincere hugs and best wishes of strength and fortitude.


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

October 6, 2021 3:26 pm  #6


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

fiddlesticks wrote:

 my spouse will always deflect conversations related to our sex life, but she is also aware that I am sad, depressed, have things on my mind etc... And will drill me to find out what is wrong, in order to help, apparently, but if my response relates in any way to 'us' it will result in aggression and anger, this often causes me to revert to it being my issue, my problem, caused by me or something I have been through. So if I could do with anything now it would be to know how to navigate this..... Do I focus on avoiding showing my sad, depressed feelings, on the real issue and trying to talk about it, avoid any kind of confrontation or what? I would appreciate any thoughts on this.....

Look you are sounding really level headed and asking good questions.  another hug first.  it's difficult to put into words but recognising that you are being used is very useful.  Her drilling says she wants to be in control of you and responds to any threat to that.  So to me that says you are in a difficult situation.  She wants to keep you, but is kicking you under the table.  That is how it was for me.  I felt so wretched and yet the more wretched I felt the more he put me down.

What I did was take a step back and when he tried to pull me back into line by being angry with me I turned the tables, for the first time instead of placating I spoke back angrily.  He was so surprised he stepped back and he didn't try that on with me again.  A person who uses you is not going to stop.

I second Rob, living alone is better than living with a liar.

 

Last edited by lily (October 6, 2021 3:29 pm)

 

October 6, 2021 8:32 pm  #7


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

odd thing to say Longway. 

I do still believe my gidxh was narcissistic - a wolf in sheep's clothing.  so nice he seems to be such a nice man I remember one woman saying to me you can't divorce him if you do then I don't know any good couples and I always thought you were such a perfect couple.  what a liar he is tho, is the truth of it.

 

October 7, 2021 6:12 am  #8


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

Thank you all for your thoughts and comments, you are right Rob the hugs feel as real as anything I have felt in a very long time. I am sending them back all your ways, the more I read all of your stories the more I realise how many beautiful innocent people have been effected by this issue and despite this being a place of sad stories and hurt people, it is even more of a place of hope and love and support, I am so pleased to have found you all.

As for narcissism I never thought of my wife as a narcissist, in fact if I am completely honest I didn't even know what one was. But I listened to Ryan King's pod cast yesterday and was dumbstruck by a couple of things he said. Firstly that he didn't realise he was being narcissistic until after everything had ended and he spent time reading and hearing the stories of many of those affected by this, it made him realise that much of his behaviour had indeed been narcissistic.
The other point he made which came as a shock was that he thought nothing of his wife’s feelings at any point during or since, he was only really interested in his own self and situation. I find this most upsetting as it would appear on the surface that my wife does love me and care for my feelings, but I am now beginning to realise that this is to some extent connected with what she is thinking and doing, or planning to do than my actual feelings.
Thanks for your list of actions I can do and plan Longway, thinking about practical things that will make the next steps easier is something I have been putting off, and it is good to have some guidance for when I get the courage together. I am lucky in that I have lots of things I like to do and will try to focus on getting out and doing them over the coming months, something I think we have all been struggling with in these strange times.
Elle this is exactly what I do on a continual basis, reading your post reminds me of this cycle, I go through it over and over again, and I still can’t help myself start again every time. I must stop this, but I think I am going to have to work up to it…. I feel like if I had definitive proof or I could get her to come out everything would be fine, I could help and support her through what she is dealing with, and at the same time work on my own future without her in the knowledge that it will be okay for both of us, but I am guessing you all felt this right? I still love my wife dearly and the thought of leaving her to deal with what is going on with her on her own is very difficult.
For me Lily the anger comes regardless of my behaviour, if I stay calm it is only a matter of time before she gets angry in order to stop the conversation, and if I get angry she may go either way, sometimes I am allowed to rant at her silence after which she will often say nothing and walk away, or she will fight and try to turn things around so that I feel the conversation is not necessary, I am making problems where there aren’t any, and ultimately that it’s all my fault. I know now that this is simply a tactic for her to avoid confronting the reality, and most importantly to enable her to stay in this relationship so that she doesn’t have to face her real self. I guess I have learnt that narcissism comes in different forms to different extents in each case, and I suspect all of our X’s or partners have exhibited it at different times through the journey. And your comment about other people saying how you couldn’t end your relationship as it/he is so good really resonates with me, all our friends and family think we are the perfect couple. I guess part of the way our relationship has evolved has also meant I have inadvertently learnt to act like everything is okay as it is so hard to discuss and expose amongst family and friends.
Something else Ryan talked about that pricked my ears up was the fear and hurt he was feeling as a closeted gay man, Ryan says he knew from 6 or 7 years old that he was not interested in girls, and he has lived with that all his life, he didn’t come out until he was in his forty’s and lived with the fear of being gay and not being able to talk about it, or live it, and so became a professional cover up artist, by the time he started having relationships with women in order to keep the cover up going he was an expert, when it came to conversations like the one we are talking about here, he had years of experience of avoidance, blame change and placing guilt where it would be most effective, as he puts it ‘she didn’t stand a chance!

Today I am feeling stronger, only a touch and I’m still not ready for anything, but I am taking energy from that feeling, thank you all….
 

     Thread Starter
 

October 7, 2021 7:56 am  #9


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

Small steps every day.

You know your partner better than us, but I personally doubt you can help her 'come out'. There has to be a willingness, on her side, to work on things. I just don't see any evidence of that, in what you've told us.

Be well.
 


“The future is unwritten.”
― Joe Strummer
 

October 7, 2021 3:39 pm  #10


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

My comments in red

fiddlesticks wrote:

Elle this is exactly what I do on a continual basis, reading your post reminds me of this cycle, I go through it over and over again, and I still can’t help myself start again every time. Yes!...this is exactly how it was for me. I could see the pattern, feel the pattern of my distress starting within me but the emotional switch would turn on every time and away I'd/we'd go....arguing, shouting, so upsetting...with me unable to stop myself from initiating or joining in

I must stop this, but I think I am going to have to work up to it….you've got it Sticks these events and my reaction to them took a while to pinpoint, acknowledge, process and finally sort through my reactions and decide how to deal with it. I found my thoughts had to be clear/not muddled by emotion so I could actually see what was happening during one of the emotional times.   

I feel like if I had definitive proof or I could get her to come out everything would be fine, I could help and support her through what she is dealing with, and at the same time work on my own future without her in the knowledge that it will be okay for both of us, but I am guessing you all felt this right? I know *I* felt this. But not for long, because we're not in their heads and don't see or feel what they're seeing or feeling right? Yes your wife would probably accept your help and compassion but she's totally Mindfucked your r'ship. Remember you're important, don't help her to the detriment of your own mental health. I still love my wife dearly and the thought of leaving her to deal with what is going on with her on her own is very difficult. Hold on to that feeling but remember it may not last

Today I am feeling stronger, only a touch and I’m still not ready for anything, but I am taking energy from that feeling
You're on a road, it's a long one, many bumps with a few deep potholes. We're walking with you
 

Elle


KIA KAHA                       
 

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