Kel,
 I did not say that SSN would counsel a physically abused woman to stay.  I said that you would not offer a physically abused woman a "range" of works to read, some of which would lead her to believe that it was her duty to stay with her abusive spouse.  A woman married to a trans-identifying man is living in an inherently abusive situation, in which her sexuality, her femininity, and her physical reality as a female are being appropriated, redefined, and even ridiculed.  She is being gaslit on a level and in a way so elemental that unless you have experienced it you cannot fully understand it.  And for you to even raise the question about the redefinition of a straight woman's sexuality (your "do we now call a woman in a relationship with a transwoman a lesbian?") is both hurtful and offensive, and contributes to the trauma we experience. To tell a woman living in such a situation that there is a range of options available to her and that all options are equally legitimate is to me irresponsible, just as it would be to offer a range of options to a physically abused woman who is suffering the psychological effects of what is called battered women's syndrome.   To do so ignores the reality that choices are not made in a vacuum, and that the context in which she is living and making a choice is one in which her reality is under attack.  The "all options are equally legitimate depending on what you decide works for you" ignores this reality.  I understand that you and I will not, will never, see eye to eye on this subject.  

Longwayhome,
    You are correct.  TTT is not the same as TGT, either on an individual level--and you have articulated the reasons that is true in your post above--or on a social level.  For one thing, when gay people are allowed to live and to love as same sex people, the rest of us do not find ourselves forced to change.  A gay couple can work, study, marry and live without it affecting my marriage, my education, my job, my life. I can live and let live. (Obviously I'm not referring to gay people who have been hiding out in a straight-appearing marriage using their straight spouse as a beard.) 

  However, for trans people to live as they claim they must others are expected to affirm belief in a reality that the overwhelming majority of us do not do ascribe to, which is that people can be "born in the wrong body" (a person is not an autonomous mind separate from their body) or change their sex (a person living as the opposite SEX does not change their SEX, which remains the same as it was when they were conceived), or that biological sex is merely a social construction; or they demand we--and their own children--refer to them by pronouns properly belonging to a sex they are not and which evolution has equipped us to perceive with even a cursory glance; male people living as transwomen insist they be allowed to be included in quotas set aside for women, be allowed to work with populations of vulnerable and traumatized women (rape crisis centers, domestic violence shelters, prisons).  



 

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (August 12, 2021 8:26 pm)

I think it's bizarre that men who have a paraphilia can now live their paraphilia full time in public and be applauded as being a brave trans person. The mass enabling of transvestism (sexually aroused by cross dressing) and autogynephilia (men who are sexually aroused by thinking of himself as a woman) isn't helping anyone.  Believe the women who have first hand knowledge of men with these disorders who will deceive, use, and manipulate anyone into believing that they are harmless victims.

Thanks, OOHC, I didn't think you were implying different, I just wanted to include the rest of us!

yes of course - there are different scenarios and then each one is circumstantially unique.

I don't suppose it's the same thing but I think there is some commonality over the femininity thing.

The one photo from when we were young where my ex looks like he's really enjoying himself he was dressed up as a fairy, complete with spangled tutu a wand and tiara and pink ballet shoes.  It was for a Christmas pantomime for disabled children and everybody thinks he is so wonderful for doing it but you know, did he have to add the lipstick and the heavy eye makeup?  yes he did and it made him feel happy.  (looking back I just realise that was around the time this man came to work where he did.)

 

Last edited by lily (August 12, 2021 9:59 pm)

OutofHisCloset wrote:

Kel,... And for you to even raise the question about the redefinition of a straight woman's sexuality (your "do we now call a woman in a relationship with a transwoman a lesbian?") is both hurtful and offensive, and contributes to the trauma we experience.  

My god.  I missed this line when I first read your post.  
 

Longwayhome,
  Wikipedia's definition has been captured by transactivists, who would like to conflate gender and sex in order to eliminate the entire fact of sex (Male/female).  Trans-identifying males (transwomen) want to do this because they insist that lesbians--females sexually attracted to females--should be attracted to THEM--MALES and their PENISES--because they consider themselves women.   To these people there is no "hetero" or "homo" sexualty, except for them, because they want lesbians as sexual partners so they can "validate" themselves as lesbian women.  So only (male) transwomen are allowed to be attracted to (female) lesbians. 

It makes no logical sense.  They want to eliminate sex as a biological category, but the entire concept of transgendered relies on that biology.