OurPath (formerly SSN) Open Forum » A gay ex-husband answers your questions

lily · February 18, 2021 8:09 am

I thought a MOM meant a mixed orientation marriage - I was in a MOM all along, I didn't know what the problem was but I knew we had a problem to fix right from the early days, and he just kept stringing me along until he couldn't any more.

sexual orientation is magnetic - it is attraction or repulsion.

not all MOMs are between gay and straight. sometimes both the man and the woman are gay.

Orientation is not the only aspect. Speaking just in terms of another element of sexuality - straight is man dominant, woman submissive. gay sex has the same dynamic.

on that level a straight wife with a gay bottom is not a match, but a straight husband with a gay femme wife is.

so, the way I see it when it comes to evaluating and understanding what is going on in your own marriage, which is of course a unique situation, these elements can be determined which can help.

The way I see it strong religious beliefs overlap with our romantic emotions.

And I guess I will add that in my personal feeling it is that either a marriage is good or it is bad, there is no ho hum to be had.

Last edited by lily (February 18, 2021 8:14 am)

Sean · February 18, 2021 12:02 pm

Thanks Lily. Questions:

1. How did you discover your husband was gay?
2. Did you ever go through a bargaining "well maybe he's bisexual" stage?
3. What made you finally decide to divorce rather than stay together?

lily · February 18, 2021 7:54 pm

(1) We met in the same religious group. In my 40's I lost my religious beliefs and I think that is part of it - I was thinking again like I had as a child and a teenager, before I had gotten involved in religion. And then finally it was the weight of time, I was in my 50's, we had been together for 37 years! I walked into my studio and sat down. I had just asked him if he might be a bit gay and he had said no and as I walked I realised I had asked him this question a few times over the years. I sat down asking myself why didn't his 'No!' satisfy me, why had I just asked him again.

So yes, another aspect was having the studio to myself, my own space. It wasn't long before I reached for the computer and typed 'why do straight women marry gay men' into google. I found the straight spouse network straightaway. I got an answer to my question - because they didn't know - and I closed the computer thinking I will read there later, I finished in the studio, went back into the house and made dinner, watched the telly, he went to bed, I opened the computer and started reading. 3 posts is all it took, I read three posts and I knew he was the same - gay in denial. That's when I went into shock. Profound shock, I literally fell to the floor. I had no idea until then. I could not conceive of someone lying about something as important as that - once I took that on board, the pieces started to fall into place.

(2) I went to the doctor. He gave me a check up and arranged a series of 6 counselling sessions for me. The counsellor was a trained psychologist, as professional as you can get. Divorced with grown children I learned later that she was gay. It explained a lot. But she gave me an excellent suggestion - ask him if he is bisexual. I did. It opened Pandora's box for a while, he identified as bisexual - for two weeks we talked about it, he said it made him special, it meant he had a choice and it was none of my business. The underlying issue to the conversation was me saying he wasn't straight and he should have told me about it and him seeing if he could get me under his thumb again. and there I am watching him go all pink and sweaty talking about the men of his youth.

(3) Initially I had no real thought of divorce though I did hear that plaintive voice that whispered in my mind when I realised he was gay - 'this is my get out of jail free card', I thought. No, my first idea was that now that I knew his secret we could go back to being better friends again. Quickly realised that was not the case, he was not relieved or pleased that I knew at all! No after two weeks of talking about being bisexual he announces he has changed his mind, he is 100% straight and when I said but what if I don't think that his reply was that would make you insane. very kindly said but the threat was 100% real and if I stayed he could have done it. I turned on my heel and went about the business of finding a solicitor.

In underhanded ways he had threatened my well being, both psychological and physical by the time I left. My mother had recently died, I loved her so much - that gave me backbone, not just in all that went between us, it brought the truth out into the open and I was in no doubt what she wanted me to do but also - well I can roughly translate my thoughts as like hell will he get his clammy hands on her money.

I still feel grateful when I think of my solicitor, she was so good, a responsible and caring type of person she really helped me, just about carried me at times.

It was not until after the divorce was done and dusted that the corroboration came in from people who knew him before he met me and knew he was having sex with men. I didn't think he had cheated on me but with hindsight I can tell you the name of his boyfriend he had right there in the early days when we were the very picture of a happily married couple.

oh goodness, it has taken me so long to say that. an American, son of a cop. he had a girlfriend too. I guessed straightaway when I started taking on board my ex was gay and remembered him but it is only now I have taken it on board from my side - how I was so completely naive, innocently in love with him, smiling into his eyes and yet he has just been fucking another man. No wonder it felt like something was off!

Sean · February 19, 2021 4:22 am

Thanks for answering my questions Lily. I think it's brilliant to ask "Are you bisexual?" because this question is more palatable to a closeted husband than "Are you gay?" I'm going to recommend that to straight wives who post here if you don't mind. On a related matter, what follows is my "closeted husbands are gay-in-denial narcissists" quote of the week:

"I think he’s [husband's] itching for a sexual experience with a man and I [his wife] caught him before it happened. I’m hoping this new counselor can explain that it’s the infidelity/lying that are the problem, not the bisexuality. I can feel the emotional distance and resentment from across the room right now."

To provide some context:

- Husband/wife haven't had sex in years
- Husband says he is bisexual
- Couple had a joint counselling session
- Wife initially agreed to a threeway (with another man)
- Wife understandably claims she's not ready (bravo to her for setting boundaries)

Most caring husbands would: accept responsibility for the lack of intimacy/sex; apologize for hurting their wives; would reassure her to 'take all the time you need' with the decision yes/no open the marriage (ie give him permission to f*ck men while married); and work like hell to regain her trust. A closeted husband (and black-belt *sshole): shifts the blame on to his wife for a lack of intimacy ('well you did gain all the weight'); rushes to open up the marriage so that he can now openly f*ck men; and then punishes his wife for c*ck blocking him.

So what's my point? When you confront your gay-in-denial husband (GIDH) about things like cheating, his sex toy collection, or gay porn, watch closely for two things: 1. his reaction; and 2. your reaction. When a mentally stable husband is clearly in the wrong, he will normally: acknowledge the wrongdoing; apologize; and change his behaviour in an effort to repair the relationship. In the pink-paralell universe where GIDHs dwell, they will: deny/minimize ("It didn't happen!" or "It was just a blowjob!"); deflect/blame shift ("I can't believe you're SPYING on me?"); and then eventually demand an apology from you. The closeted husband may then punish his wife in different ways such as pouting or giving her the silent treatment WHEN HE WAS CLEARLY IN THE WRONG. If this describes your interactions with a gay husband, please seek individual counselling.

If any straight spouses have questions, please post them here!

Last edited by Sean (February 19, 2021 5:28 am)

Gloria · February 19, 2021 12:10 pm

The next time I start dating a man I am going to ask him if he is gay or bi sexual. I know that he may lie. I always assume that if a man wants a relationship with me, he must be straight. I had a gay boyfriend when I was 18 but he told me he was gay after four months.

Séan · February 20, 2021 1:05 am

Thank you for sharing Gloria. If you can, please provide an update and let us know:

1. Where you are in your journey (married, separated, divorced).
2. How did you discover your husband was gay?
3. Did you ever go through a bargaining "well maybe he's bisexual" stage?
4. What made you finally decide to divorce rather than stay together?

In response to your post:

"The next time I start dating a man I am going to ask him if he is gay or bi sexual. I know that he may lie. I always assume that if a man wants a relationship with me, he must be straight. I had a gay boyfriend when I was 18 but he told me he was gay after four months."

This sounds like an excellent strategy. Sadly, most of the gay-in-denial husbands/boyfriends I read about here apparently believe they can supress their homosexuality by dating/marrying women. So they're not yet out to themselves, let alone capable of telling a long-term partner, "I'm gay." So what's a straight woman to do? I reckon 95% of gay/straight relationships start out as follows:

1. He's more of a "gay best friend" than boyfriend at the beginning.
2. Her first reaction is often, "This guy is gay!"
3. From the beginning, the relationship is platonic and he doesn't appear to be interested in sex.
4. He ticks a lot of gay boxes: show choir; dated boys in high school; says he was bisexual.

In my opinion, women are incredibly intuitive when it comes to men and male sexuality. When I came out to friends and family, I'd estimate that 80% of the women in my life shrugged and said, "M'yeah…." because they already knew I was gay. So I'd urge women to trust their intuition.

Thanks for reading friends. Be well!

Gloria · February 20, 2021 8:46 am

We talked about my current situation via private message so you know what is going on there. I can talk on here about the situation that I found myself in at age 18. This guy was three years older than me. He moved out of state to live with his grandmother to go to college in the fall. He was good looking and slender. I thought he was a little different because he liked to look at my mother's dishes. When we had sex for the first time he did not appear to know what he was doing. I had been in two other relationships by then. He moved in the dorm that fall, met someone, and told me. My parents went to church with his grandmother and sadly, he died of aids around 1990 He had told me that he thought that if he moved out of state and got away from his friends, and met a nice girl that he could be straight.

Dutchman · February 20, 2021 10:27 am

1. Sexuality is not a choice:

Sexuality is hard-wired. Yes there are still people who claim that we choose to be gay but that can be easily disproved/debunked with a few questions.

This is hardly a point of discussion. There is no option of choice of sexual orientation, I never stated something to that effect nor someone else on this forum as far as I know.
I don't see it as an (treatable) illness, I certainly dont think it can (or should!) be overcome by prayer, conversion therapy or what have you.
These kinds of dealing with things actually imply not accepting oneself (or the other). No good whatsoever comes from this.
I hope you understand I'm a proponent of quite the opposite (and so is my wife). I'm like: Radical and unconditional acceptance of the fact (concerning oneself, concerning the spouse, concerning the situation in a MOM, etc). Maybe this gets unclear and somewhat confusing to you when I write about choices one has dealing with "sexual orientation".
Mind you, if an unmarried LGB wants to pursue a same sex relation, that's totally okay with me. It's logical and plausible to happen. It's just the same for an unmarried straight that pursues some opposite sex relation.

2. We still live in a heteronormative society:

Heterosexuality is the standard or norm in most societies. For me personally, I was raised in a place and at a time when being gay was so stigmatized that I chose to marry a woman. Thankfully, attitudes are changing and people are coming out much younger. Hopefully, one day gay/straight marriages will no longer happen.

(apart from all the bi-straight MOMs) There always be MOMs, some choose it knowingly and some discern only later in marriage one is gay.

You could have chosen to remain single. A lot of man and women (even straights) don't marry, that's not stigmatized.
Or you could have told your wife about your sexuality before you got married. It's wasn't her doing that being gay was stigmatized.
Why lying about such an important aspect of yourself and keeping on this so long into marriage?

3. Most Gay In Denial Husbands (GIDHs) Suffer from Severe Mental Illness:

I know first-hand the terrible burden of hiding my sexuality, from both myself and my (then) wife....
I am often struck by how often gay/straight marriages resemble narcissist/co-dependent relationships.

I understand living that way could be very damaging to one's mental health. But often the stories of certain GID in MOMs are much alike straight narcissists in straight marriages (but with an extra dimension added to it). Also the fact a gay enters a marriage based on lies could point to a pre existing condition.

Someone with narcissism creates an alternative self, some ideal artificial image that wants to be admired and cheered. If such a person is gay, and being gay is sigmatized by society, that sexual orientation doesn't match that 'desired image'. This combination is the perfect setting for a GIDH to develop. Marrying a straigt woman, create the picture of a happy family, it all fits the creation of this artificial self image.

4. Straight Wives are the Victims:
A straight spouse once posted, "Where's my f*cking parade?"

Yep, It's political correctness gone crazy, by definition the gay is "a victim" it seems.
I can get very angry about the ignorance of those 'outside'.

5. Bodies Speak Before Minds:

It does indicate something is the matter, but it doesn't supply an accurate description what the cause is.
For instance: viagra isn't produced for just the GIDHs. So it's certainly reason to talk and maybe search for help.

6. You Might Never Hear "I'm gay."

Imagine spending 20-30 years telling yourself the same lie. You inevitably become the lie.

Again it depends on the actual situation. Is it the (narcissist) GID that's a pathological liar OR a honest bisexual (that likes gay porn). In both cases one obviously won't hear the "I'm gay".

7. Mixed Orientation Marriages (MOMs)

MOMs are defined as marriages between a gay or bisexual spouse and a straight spouse. (Previous generations referred to these as "lavender" marriages.)

Correction: A 'lavender marriage' was meant to intentionally hide a gay in a marriage to protect their reputation. This purpose was often (but not always) known and agreed upon by both spouses.
It's a specific type of MOM, not a synonym of MOMs in general.

8. We all Travel Similar Paths

Certainly for some groups of MOMs, for example where narcissism or other mental disorder is at play, there will be strong similarities.
These relations are toxic and I realy think divorce is the only option in that case. It's also not reparable, the narcissism won't go away and (couples) counseling will lead nowhere because the narcissist will only try to manipulate the therapy (or even the therapist).
So IMO top of the "to do list" is discerning whether narcissism is part of it. If it is, go for the exit (the more so when there are children involved).

But these kinds of relations follow very different paths from MOMs which are based on honesty and openess.
It will differ also when gay feelings were unknown before marriage, but are discovered later in life.
Is infidelity part of the story or not.
The character and personality of the spouses involved. (selfish, self centered piece of sh*t or a loving empathic person, it makes a world of difference)
The quality of love in the relation.
The (willingness) of acceptance of the sexual orientation (of themselves and/or the spouse).
Religion (this can play a possitive or a negative role).
And more...
It's a complex mix of things that determine the path and outcome. MOM's are not a one-size-fits-all.

Last edited by Dutchman (February 20, 2021 11:01 am)

Sean · February 20, 2021 12:47 pm

Thank you for sharing Gloria. In response to your post:

"The next time I start dating a man I am going to ask him if he is gay or bi sexual. I know that he may lie. I always assume that if a man wants a relationship with me, he must be straight. I had a gay boyfriend when I was 18 but he told me he was gay after four months."

This sounds like an excellent strategy. Sadly, most of the gay-in-denial husbands/boyfriends I read about here apparently believe they can suppress their homosexuality by dating/marrying women. So they're not yet out to themselves, let alone capable of telling a long-term partner, "I'm gay." So what's a straight woman to do? I reckon 95% of gay/straight relationships start out as follows:

1. He's more of a "gay best friend" than boyfriend at the beginning.
2. Her first reaction is often, "This guy is gay!"
3. From the beginning, the relationship is platonic and he doesn't appear to be interested in sex.
4. He ticks a lot of gay boxes: show choir; dated boys in high school; says he was bisexual.

In my opinion, women are incredibly intuitive when it comes to men and male sexuality. When I came out to friends and family, I'd estimate that 80% of the women in my life shrugged and said, "M'yeah…." because they already knew I was gay. So I'd urge women to trust their intuition.

Thanks for reading friends. Be well!

Gloria · February 20, 2021 1:11 pm

He was very interested in sex but I just wanted to be friends. I met him through another friend (a straight guy) who remarked that he acted "gay" HIs best friend did not think so. He's eccentric and I thought that he was just different. I did not see red flags until January of 2020. I have no doubt that he's gay. I have heard that "coming out" is very difficult. I hope he has the courage to tell me one day.

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