vicky wrote:

There's people like me who exist who are married/common law with their best friend.  No infidelity, love being in each others company, and genuinely care for each other.

If there is no infidelity and you're both happy, then there isn't a problem, is there?  I don't think that problems between mixed orientation partners arise from the mere fact that they're mixed as much as they do from the fact that their orientation typically results in different wants and needs than the other is able or willing to provide.  If that weren't the case, then most of us wouldn't even know there was an issue.  We see a problem, and then the underlying cause is discovered.  If the underlying issue that caused the problem to rear its ugly head cannot be changed, then I highly doubt the problems will dry up by simple admittance of them.  But again, If they do, then there isn't a problem.  It's when the problem cannot be changed that people often find themselves here - a place where oh-so-many of us have gone 'round and 'round in the revolving door of trying to make it work, only to realize that this was a pipe dream all along.

vicky wrote:

Bi means 'twice or two' for those here that don't know it.

Yes, I'm well aware.  It means they're sexually attracted to both sexes.  So???  It doesn't mean equally, necessarily.  And being bi doesn't mean they have to have sex with both sexes on a regular basis in order to be sexually fulfilled.  But our bi spouses would have us somehow believe this.  I'm attracted to LOT of men - does it mean anything?  No.  I'm married to THIS one.  I committed myself to him - took vows, even.  So it doesn't matter what others I'm attracted to.  I feel the same way about bi.  If they bi person is seeking others out outside of the marriage, then they're either just plain old cheaters, or they are lying about being attracted to the person they're committed to.  Again, this goes back to whether there's an issue rearing it's head or not.  If I were attracted to women 90% of the time to 10% of the time with men, but it didn't affect my marriage because I am aroused by the man I have, then it wouldn't even impact my marriage, would it?  It wouldn't be a problem.  People aren't here because there isn't a problem - they're here because there IS a problem.

vicky wrote:

This site has a reputation on other sites as being negative and nasty.

What sites - the ones where the focus is on coming out, but not worrying about their spouse and family?  That's okay with me, then.  I've been on those sites too, and think the same of them.  To each his own.  I never see gay bashing here, and I rarely see name calling.  We have been hurt by our gay spouses, and we don't feel benevolent toward gay spouses who are doing the same thing to others.

vicky wrote:

This is why I continue to lurk here.  To find the people who are like me, people who love their spouses unconditionally and want to find their own way together.

There is a fine line between loving unconditionally and being a doormat.  If you loved your husband unconditionally, that would mean that your love knows no boundaries - that even if he murdered or molested one of your children, your love would still prevail.  Is that the truth?  I doubt it.  We all have boundaries.  Mine may just be in a different place than yours.  And that's okay.  But it's not okay to imply that we didn't love our spouses unconditionally if we weren't willing to accept them when they were not honoring us any longer.  I may have been able to accept my ex if he told me he had gay tendencies, but he didn't.  He said nothing.  For SIXTEEN YEARS.  His actions said something was wrong, but he denied, denied, denied.  And it hurt me greatly.  I was not about to continue to go on feeling unloved by him because I felt I owed it to him to love him despite his mistreatment of me.  And I won't encourage anyone else to do so, either.

Can MOMs work?  Sure - I guess so.  If you are both in agreement on what works for the two of you, and there is trust, then more power to ya!  But it would be irresponsible of me to not mention that the st8 partner in said situation often finds out later that it wasn't working for their partner, and then the pressure is on again to make it work in another way by giving more (or worse - they find that their partner never did tell them they weren't satisfied, but instead, simply started/continue cheating).  It doesn't necessarily happen right away - it often takes years for these patterns to reveal themselves.  Those of us who've ridden that sick merry-go-round only wish for others not to even get on the ride without knowing full well what they MAY be in for.  And so we warn.  And then we're mean, jaded and discouraging.  Would we love to be wrong? Absolutely!  It would mean there's more hope for these types of situations.  But sadly, we haven't seen those types of situations work out very often.  I myself was in a MOM for over a decade and a half - Iiiiiii just didn't know it!  And so I for one won't  blow sunshine up anyone else's ass, no matter how they tell me I'm mean and jaded for not standing on the sidelines and shaking my pom-pons.  I'm no cheerleader - I'm a freaking paramedic.

Kel

MOM, my 2 cents, is a roll of the dice move, you may go all in and lose big in the long run.  My view, life is too short for that. Is the risk worth it or the payoff in the long term? Each individual in these relationships need to ask themselves this before entering into such a relationship and if they don't they are fools. My humble opinion is that in the long-term they will not work. It's difficult enough for two people to make a relationship work let alone three. Someone, somewhere, somehow is going to lose out. Deny all you like but this is reality. If both persons go into this saying they are str8 then all of a sudden one half of the couple now wants this...well it's your life, just realize you might be hurt in the long run. If you can accept this, then good for you. Personally, I think many young people today are naive to what is coming down the road at them. They are going to learn their lessons and learn them hard. Personally, no way in hell, I'd walk. I know myself well enough to know I couldn't live with this. I'd be out the door so fast it'd make his head spin, love doesn't conquer all as we've been mislead to believe. It's too risky getting involved with a SSA spouse/partner and they know it and lie about who they are. Cake, cake, there is no cake, it's all a lie!

How many SSA men/women are going to allow their wives/gf, husbands/bf to do this if they really love the woman/man in their life? They're not, this isn't real love, holding onto something that isn't real. These types of relationships are one sided. I'd love for Sean and the other gay/lesbian here to address this. How would they have felt if their str8 spouse cheated on them with another man/woman? Would they have been relieved or pissed about it? They are the only ones who can fully address this. Men by nature are very territorial regardless if they are gay/hetero. It's a male trait because they are male. Some women also exhibit these traits, not all.  

I've already been on bi websites and read articles on this issue. One poll I saw, bisexual men admitted they would have a hard time with this if their wife/gf had an affair outside of their relationship even though he was having sex with men even with her knowing or on the dl. My eyebrows beelined to my forehead when I read these responses. Really???!!! I thought. Why? Because these men are going to be very concerned with legitimacy of their children or future children. Why do you think Greek women in ancient times were keep to their homes? They were not allowed outside of their homes, not even to shop, and often times had their own quarters where only their father/husband/brothers/male guardian could enter. So their men could live their SSA lifestyle and keep the sanctity of their legitimate offspring their heirs. This is a historically known fact. We are seeing history repeating itself here and as Sean said this is a form of slavery toward women or men living in these relationships.  He is absolutely correct.

How is the SSA male going to feel if he let some stranger or his active hookup have relations with his wife and she gets pregnant by the third party? Condoms break everyday people, birth control isn't fool proof. He is going to be pissed as hell and he will be at fault - they both will. Hello paternity testing! Not to mention the safe sex and health issues over the barebacking/breeding thing. How is a judge going to rule on this?  Will the legal husband now have to pay child support or the hookup?  I'd find it funny if they both had to pay. Reality is, this is selfishness even if some can't see it. What if the husband is so pissed, finds out the child isn't his then walks. Then what happens to the woman and the child? Crap shoot! The way I see it, this is a total lack of respect for a person you claim you love above all else. What's the point of the relationship as Kel wisely said? If they are honest upfront and you go in all knowing setting parameters that is an entirely different thing. The people here on this website, the majority of them were lied to by their partner for whatever reason. This is a person who is a liar and can't be trusted. This is a total game changer. I understand fully society is in a transition with everything out in the open now vs. years of many having to hide their sexual preference. I get it. 

The smart thing to do is stay single, have all the sex partners you want and not risk hurting someone in the long run. Flat out don't marry. Marriage is a legally binding contract. You can't change the rules in the middle or just after going into one. Yeah you're basically friends with benefits. What's the point? What about you're own self-respect? You're own happiness? Shouldn't you ask yourself are you really that much of a giver or very co-dependent?  Trust me, many are going to wake up in their late 30's, 40's, and 50's discovering they are not very happy because their own needs: sexually, mentally, and emotionally are not being meet in these relationships. Your SSA partner's attention is going to be divided?  Face the facts this is a shitty reality. Is this what you really want? This is not what true relationships are, be they SS or hetero, relationships don't work this way. Funny thing about the bi definition, shouldn't it really be called tri-sexual? Personally, I find the definition misleading. Because it's not just two but three in these occurrences.  

Being the old woman I am, what I'm finding scary is that so many young people today can't seem to get a grasp that this isn't what a relationship is all about. Why?  Because they are listening to all of this BS, that is why? Because of these situations they are causing a breakdown in the stability of society. What is wrong with having morals and ethics in today's society regardless of your sexual orientation? As much as we may not like it, morals and ethics in our society are a faucet of all our relationships rather we chose to believe this or not.  The very sad thing, is that decades from now we're going to have alot of sad people walking around. Many are going to wake up one day and go WTF.  Then we'll see a change of tune on these issues.  I'm old enough to know you can't have it both ways.  Life doesn't work like this.  Very few people are able to make these relationships work.  Don't fool yourself, you'd better do hard core research into this before starting this type of relationships. What are the stats on these relationships and how often do they work? This is something new to society and let's face the facts we aren't going to know the full data and impact on society for several generations to come on the whole MOM thing.  Is your life and happiness worth it or the person who claims they loved you lied about their Str8 relationship and now want an open relationship.  I call BS.    

Emerald,

Unless I've misinterpreted what Vicky has said, I don't believe she's in an open relationship.  A MOM only stands for Mixed Orientation Marriage.  It's often assumed that MOM and open marriage are synonymous, but they are not.  An open marriage between a mixed orientation couple is always a MOM, but a MOM is not always an open marriage.  Technically, a MOM presumes nothing except that the married individuals are of different orientations.  The terms of how they make that work are up to them - it could be complete abstinence, or like Vicky has described, a relationship that works like it always has outside the bedroom, but allows for some measure of creative options in the bedroom - gay porn, anal sex, etc.  It's entirely possible to be in a monogomous MOM.

My point in my earlier post was that if you're in an honest, trusting, mutually-respectful MOM where you're both happy and fully satisfied, then there really isn't a problem.  I think a lot of us st8 spouses would go for that with the gay spouses we love, except that we can't agree to terms.  Maybe one individual wants an open marriage, and the other isn't cool with that (even if given permission to do the same).  Problem. Maybe they think we can live with the terms, only to find out that they were wrong.  Problem. Maybe they were told that what was wanted was "just sex", but it turns out to feel more like a different lifestyle. Problem. There are so many things that can go wrong that it's practically impossible to make it work.   But it can be done if both partners are onboard and happy with the arrangement.

As for Vicky needing to defend another individual's claims about whether st8 women truly exist - I don't believe she's under any obligation to do that.

Kel

Last edited by Kel (October 6, 2016 11:31 pm)

Hi again, Emerald -

The word "open" in a marriage still means what it always has. But the "O" in M.O.M. doesn't stand for the word Open - it stands for the word Orientation. Mixed Orientation Marriage just means that the couple is not of the same sexual orientation (or preference). They are not both st8, or both gay. You could work a MOM anywhere on the spectrum from completely monogamous to completely open. Heck, it could even be just two friends (of different orientations) who marry/stay married for companionship. There is a general assumption when speaking of a MOM that they are working somewhere within the spectrum of open, but that's a false assumption.

I don't think that Vicky is trying to convince anyone that a MOM is the ideal option, or even a good one for most people. I think she's just saying that it's working for her, and she wants to see us here on this board be more welcoming and accepting of that possibility for some of us. In some ways, I think she has a valid point. We do generally discourage new members from considering being in a MOM here. And I think that's valid in a lot of ways - it opens them to more hurt they might not have considered. As previously stated, I won't apologize for doing that, and I feel it's my obligation to point that out to them. But maybe there's a way for us to communicate differently - in a way that doesn't imply that they won't be supported here unless they go our suggested route - which is most often to end the relationship and move on. We all have different needs, and for some of us, the greatest need may be to exhaust all opportunities to stay with their partner. I only advocate that when I feel that the partners are both being honest about both their needs and their ability and intention to respect each other. Most times when people come here, they're already describing ways that their partner has being lying to them, deceiving them and not honoring their vows and committment. In those cases, I never recommend a MOM - I'm already seeing poor behavior, and I don't believe that willingly deciding to open one's heart up to more opportunities for hurt will result in anything but more hurt. I also believe that most people won't be happy in a MOM; that they agree to try a MOM out of desperation, which puts them at a disadvantage for realistically measuring how the MOM is going for them until they're arrived at the point of misery.

I do feel that we should adopt a "to each his own" view on how we st8 spouses choose to deal with the challenges with our gay spouse. This should be a place where st8 spouses of all different walks feel welcome and supported. It doesn't mean we always need to agree with their choice, or recommend their choice to them or others. But if there's one thing all of us here need, it's the understanding and support of other st8 spouses - the only other people who truly relate to our challenges and emotions.

Kel

Last edited by Kel (October 7, 2016 10:58 am)

lostdad,

I agree with you that marriage is between two people, and is committed and monogamous.  The vows say as much.  But I suppose there are some that would argue that however they want to define their marriage is their right.  Does that change my view on how a "real" marriage should work?  No, it doesn't.  But neither does it give me the right to tell them that they're not welcome here unless they agree with me on what true marriage is.

There are some people out there who get married at the age of 90+ years old, and while I'm not sure if they're still experiencing physical intimacy, my guess is that they most likely aren't.  And I don't consider their marriages any less of a marriage than mine.  They most likely go into the relationship with a clear understanding of what to expect, though - even if that's just companionship and being in love.  The difference between that and most of the people we see posting and lurking here is that they agreed ahead of time on what the marriage was going to look like - set expectations and had their needs met as much as they were able to (maybe they need sex, but can't participate in it physically, for instance).  Most people here are here because their relationship needs are not being met - whether they for certain know the reason or not.  THAT is the issue, really.  If you feel that your spouse's newly-revealed (or discovered) orientation dashes all hope for the issue to change, then you're up against a wall.  Which is where I feel most of us here are (or have been).

Kel