OurPath Open Forum

This Open Forum is funded and administered by OurPath, Inc., (formerly the Straight Spouse Network). OurPath is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit that provides support to Straight Partners and Partners of Trans People who have discovered that their partner is LGBT+. Your contribution, no matter how small, helps us provide our community with this space for discussion and connection.


BE A DONOR >>>


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



December 19, 2020 1:13 pm  #1


Divorce process - How to have a Fault or No Fault?

Need some advice regarding divorce proceedings. We have agreed on a uncontested divorce, but I’m trying to figure out if I can file for an at fault uncontested divorce.

Instead of going to a lawyer and trying to be economical (since a lawyer wants a $5K retainer and hourly rate of $425. This would cost $10-15K). I am going to use a mediator that would cost $2K, but she just helps you comes to terms in settlement, of which we already have. I may end up foregoing her in the end to save the money.

Has anyone been successful on getting a fault judgement based on fraud that spouse knew they were transgender but had not fully transitioned? I asked about getting the marriage annulled based on fraud and the mediator (who is also a lawyer) told me those are very had to get and I have to prove it and then I would not get spousal support. I will need spousal support since I will be quitting my job and moving back South to be with my family. I will have no job and no car.

I will be filing for divorce in Massachusetts and it’s a 50/50 state. I NEED to start the paperwork this weekend to move on since he/she is moving so fast on transitioning and not even worried about my feelings even though I’m trying to help him. He went from cross dressing to transgender talks in 2 days and then wanting to start HRT within the year. I need to separate these assets now so I don’t go broke.

Any help is much appreciated!

 

December 19, 2020 1:55 pm  #2


Re: Divorce process - How to have a Fault or No Fault?

I highly recommend not using a mediator.   The problem with using one is later on if you need to go back to change anything you have to go to the mediator again. So for example if he stops paying his child support or alimony normally you would go to the court..but if you mediated you have to go back to the mediator...how friendly and amicable is a person that does not fulfill their obligations.

If its a no fault state my lawyer saw no benefit in proving fault..just expense.   The concept of filing fault but then mediating seems totally conflicting.

I have no experience with amicable or friendly though.. conceptually if the couple is normal and  truly amicable a couple should be able to file and do the whole divorce themselves for very cheap.   But I would not put spouses here and the word normal in the same sentence.


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

December 20, 2020 12:27 am  #3


Re: Divorce process - How to have a Fault or No Fault?

There are often lawyers who will do an uncontested divorce (unless there are custody issues) for a flat fee.  That's what I would recommend. 

 

December 20, 2020 12:54 am  #4


Re: Divorce process - How to have a Fault or No Fault?

Document everything! Dates, time, photos and if you can possibly record (on tape) anything, DO IT! Keep a calendar as if it's your life...Because it is! Stay strong, patient and shop around legally and even if you can't use the evidence in a divorce at the moment courtroom. ( It's your armour and reminder of moving forward, not just for yourself but others and maybe for a legal system that needs to change and can by your own (and our diligence) in the matter. 
I wish you the best! 


Life is like phases of the moon.... We really only see it when it's beautiful, full and in our face. 
 

December 20, 2020 8:24 am  #5


Re: Divorce process - How to have a Fault or No Fault?

I did a quick read of the Massachusetts .gov site on divorce, and "fault, uncontested" is not listed as an option, but consulting a lawyer or legal aid would tell you for sure.  

 I don't know how mediation works in Massachusetts, but where I live mediation is for those who disagree on terms, mandated by the courts for those with children, and supplements rather than replaces a lawyer, who is needed in any case to write up the agreements, so make sure to do your homework there.  (My ex thought mediation was the way to go because he thought it would be cheaper and "friendlier" than a lawyer--meaning he thought I'd be more manipulable.  He was also in the closet and terrified I might let his secret out.) 

My advice is "Don't get divorced without a lawyer."  When you're dealing with injury and illness you need a doctor, and the same is true here: when you're dealing with the law, you need a lawyer.  For one thing, they know their way around the laws, the procedures, and the courts.  A lawyer can tell you your rights under the law in divorce, and help you advocate for yourself. Once I learned what I was entitled to under the law, and knew the courts would back me up, I told my then-husband that I wanted a better settlement.  Many of us here have been subtly (or not so subtly) groomed by our spouses in ways that disadvantage us when it comes to standing up for ourselves or demanding equal treatment, and a lawyer can help combat that.

 Also: not all lawyers bill and operate the same way.  I consulted several, and the terms were quite different for each in terms of the size of the retainer, the hourly fees, the transparency of billing, how much you can do to avoid fees (like filling out financial paperwork), how much the divorce was likely to cost (one wouldn't even give me a ballpark figure--I didn't go with her).  The most important factor about finances to examine when you consult with a lawyer is transparency: does the lawyer tell you how your money will be spent, how much they think your divorce will cost given that you and your spouse are in general agreement on the split of assets, what unavoidable court costs/filing fees there are, etc.  I got my divorce for less than two thousand dollars.  

  I don't know how it works in MA, but if you're getting an uncontested divorce, you may not even need two lawyers, one for you and one for him. My spouse wanted to avoid an ugly battle, which he was sure would happen if we each had a lawyer, so I hired one (and I would not have agreed to his being the one to hire the lawyer, because he was acting so erratically that I did not trust him).  She understood that my husband and I wanted to be "amicable," but told me she worked for me and it was her responsibility to advocate for my interests, and although I didn't always act on her information (she told me, for example, that I could get more than I ended up asking for, but I made a conscious decision to let the house go to him for less than it was worth because I knew I would have been the one to do all the work to ready it to sell), I'm very glad I had her in my corner.  
 

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (December 20, 2020 8:32 am)

 

December 20, 2020 10:53 am  #6


Re: Divorce process - How to have a Fault or No Fault?

Why seek an "at fault"? What is the benefit to yourself?


“The future is unwritten.”
― Joe Strummer
 

December 20, 2020 1:00 pm  #7


Re: Divorce process - How to have a Fault or No Fault?

I definitely recommend getting an attorney who will advise you and represent your interests. You only get one shot at this and you describe yourself as being in a difficult financial position. A lawyer may think of things that you have not and if your spouse if draining marital assets can get the court to stop him. 

There's an old saying "Marry in haste and repent it leisure." The same applies to divorce. Take the time and spend the money to get it right.


Try Gardening. It'll keep you grounded.
 

December 20, 2020 1:04 pm  #8


Re: Divorce process - How to have a Fault or No Fault?

Thank you all for the advice.

I had previously spoken to an attorney through my employer's free legal service. He could only provide advice and not available to be hired. He recommended since we have no kids and only financial assets and amicable agree on division, he thought it would be best if I see the advice of mediator as it was cheaper than an attorney. I am in Boston (Suffolk county) where EVERYTHING is expensive! He stated that since MA is a 50/50 state, if you submit to the courts a 60/40 or 70/30 division of asssets, some judges will deem its unfair even if you already agreeded and send you to mediation. So in the interest to expedite the process, he rcommended going to a mediator first and then the judge would see you have done this step.  The mediator I found is actually a lawyer but she only mediates now and she would draft the paper work and then advise how to step by step submit. This would still cost me $1500-$2000K.

I have contacted several mediators and prices range from $350-$425 for hrly rate and some require a retainer on top of that  I called several divorce attorneys and not receiving a lot of calls back. I will try to research again and see if I can find a lawyer with a flat rate.

The fault or no fault divorce to me is on principle. Even though I may not possibly (some attorneys website say yes the judge would award more and some say no) benefit financially from it, I would not put down a no fault divorce since it was TOTALLY his fault. I would rather have this marriage annulled based on fraud, but the mediator stated if I ask to void the marriage, then I would not get spousal support.

Has anyone done a civil suit on the grounds of intent to cause emotional distress from fraud? I am seriously looking into this. Not because of the "bitter" scorned ex, but on the grounds of honesty and taking 16 years of my life deserves some punitive damages in my book. 

     Thread Starter
 

December 20, 2020 1:14 pm  #9


Re: Divorce process - How to have a Fault or No Fault?

The financial situation I am in has to do with liquidity of assets. Since we have no children and no debit, all of our assets are in 401K, brokerage account, pension etc. We had ourselves financial setup to actually retire in 5 years in another country. I can not image if this happened abroad!!

I have told him I want more than 50% of the assets. He said he was find with that and the amount of money we have in savings currently I will receive 75%; however that is basically to start a new life again buy a car, find a job etc.

I have a decent job with decent pay and excellent benefits; however this will only last until July 2021 as my employer already stated all employees need to go back to the office after COVID. I do not want to stay in MA. Why would I? I know no one and only moved thare because of him. This means I have to give up my job with a raise coming up.

My worry is that I will not find another job with this salary and benefits and something that will interest me. I have tried before moving to MA and settled on what I could get. Now I am wondering how the spousal support works when one spouse has to quit and move and no job on the line and another spouse with a job and further earnings, bonuses and 15% raise yearly.

     Thread Starter
 

December 20, 2020 1:15 pm  #10


Re: Divorce process - How to have a Fault or No Fault?

OutofHisCloset wrote:

......My advice is "Don't get divorced without a lawyer."..................... 

 

LostatSea...
When I said to my lawyer "I believe we'll both be amicable" she looked at me over her glasses (she wasn't wearing glasses but you know the look I mean) and said "I would advise against it" She doesn't know about the LBGTQ aspect of it yet, just that he wants to 'explore with other people. 
While I'm away seeing family after Xmas I might see her to keep her up to date 

Elle

Edit to say.....I'm not in the US as many of you are...and all the legal  " stuff " here will be different
 

Last edited by Ellexoh_nz (December 20, 2020 1:27 pm)


KIA KAHA                       
 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum