Thank you very much Dutchman, I always find what you say a breath of fresh air. My husband who says he’s bi (likely really heteroflexable) says his “gay side” is only small part of who he is and it certainly does not rule his life and his choices. He’s many more things than a bisexual man. He’d feel like an idiot if he allowed that small part of him to destroy all he’s worked to establish in his life. Does he feel he has perhaps missed out on things that could have been had he been accepting of this much earlier? Initially when he revealed, he did. He doesn’t so much anymore because he realizes that although he could fantasize about what it could have been like had he accepted this earlier, he doesn’t really knows what it would have been like. He could have been an AIDS casualty. When he was in his late teens he worked in a job with many gay young men. They would ask him to go out with them as a group and he never desired to go. He was very disinterested in their lifestyle and never felt he fit with them. My husband knows he may never experience a sexual relationship with a man (as long as I’m alive) and he’s okay with that because we have a beautiful relationship. Does that mean all desire has left him? No, neither of us is that naive, but he’s made a choice and he’s making the same choice daily... he’s choosing us. 

Tangled 

Last edited by TangledOil (November 11, 2020 1:56 pm)

Thank you for sharing everyone. If you're new to this thread, TangledOil and Dutchman are two straight spouses who chose to remain married after their spouses disclosed they were gay/bisexual. I believe they both have threads on the Mixed Orientation Marriages (MOM) section of this forum. Please check them out. 

In response to some recent posts, I'm not going to get into a debate about whether gay people are born gay (nature) or become gay (nurture). My purpose here and the main focus of this thread is to help straight spouses in broken and emotionally abusive relationships detach (with love) from gay-in-denial (GID) spouses, separate, divorce, and find happiness. As you correctly pointed out, I don't have any mental health training, tend to generalize, and often apply my own experience when exchanging with straight spouses. In the interest of full disclosure, here is what I've learned based on my own personal gay/straight marriage, exchanges with hundreds of gay men who married women, and my years of posting here (Dutchman please note I am writing about gay men only as I know nothing about bisexual or lesbian spouses):

1. Gay men who marry straight wives make terrible husbands.

2. We are born gay and being gay is not a choice.

3. Most gay people recall having homosexual feelings between the ages of 4-6. 

4. Most gay/straight marriages are highly dysfunctional, even before the straight wife starts posting here. And by dysfunctional, I mean: 
a. The husband has never been interested in sex with his wife and sex may have stopped altogether. 
b. He is verbally or emotionally abusive.  
c. He masturbates to gay porn. 
d. He has sex with men. 
e. He makes his straight wife feel as though most of this is her fault...and this is often why she's posting here. 

5. Following "discovery" or "disclosure", which is when the straight spouse confronts her gay-in-denial husband about gay porn, gay chats/texts, or sex with men, the gay-in-denial husband often follows a pattern:
a. Lies: "It never happened"
b. Minimizes "It happened once", "I was just curious", or (my favourite) "It's just sex. I don't want a relationship with another man."  
c. Distracts: "Ok I've been having sex with men for years. But only because I was molested as a child."  
Most straight spouses start posting here following disclosure/discovery. 

6. Most gay/straight relationships resemble narcissist/co-dependent marriages. In layman's terms, this means the gay-in-denial husband (GIDH) is often a manipulator and emotional abuser while his straight wife feels an overwhelming need to protect and save her husband (and often others).

7. Following disclosure, most gay/straight couples go through a "bargaining" period during which they attempt to stay together. This often means:
a. Couples' counselling.
b. A mixed orientation (gay/straight) marriage (or MOM), even though 80% of MOMs fail.
c. A short-term "honeymoon" phase when the GIDH may show a renewed interest in the relationship. It rarely lasts more than a few weeks or months. 
d. Scared of divorce, the gay-in-denial husband (GIDH) often promises monogamy and to stop all gay sexual activity (porn/cheating). 

8. If the couple attempts a mixed orientation marriage (MOM), most gay-in-denial husbands (GIDHs) eventually ask to open up the marriage, meaning he wants his straight wife's blessing to have sex with men. 

9. The cycle of: discovery/disclosure; bargaining; abuse; and honeymoon phase repeats 3-5 times before the straight spouse seriously considers separation/divorce. 

Thanks for reading my post friends. If any straight spouses have questions/comments for a gay ex-husband, please post away. Be well! 

Last edited by Séan (November 11, 2020 4:26 pm)

Thank you for writing SusannaH, although I'm so very sorry you've found yourself here. In response to your post:  

1. I have a question from your last post. I guess it isn't a question, but a statement. It's  about what gay men do when exposed or disclose: (BTW, my husband is bisexual , not gay...we enjoy sex together!) 

Please get tested for STIs and only practice safe sex with your husband. If he protests about using condoms, you can calmly remind him that he lied about cheating before and might be cheating now. I guess my question is: are you having sex that truly satisfies you? Most straight wives who ask me questions no longer have sex with their husbands so it's more black and white. As such, I reckon you're lucky on that front. As I shared in my last post, I am 100% gay and do not identify as bisexual so I can't comment on his sexuality. However, there can still be red flags with sexually active couples, particularly when: 

a. The straight wife simulates gay sex by "pegging" or penetrating her husband.
b. The husband needs to watch gay porn before or during sex with his wife.
c. The husband wants threesomes or wants to watch his wife have sex with other men ("cuck" fantasies). 

2. Not that it makes a difference in my answer. 

I think it makes a difference my friend. The most important person in this relationship is YOU. You are entitled to a relationship and sex life that fulfill you, however, please get tested for STIs and only practice safe sex. 

3. “5. b........ “(my favourite) It’s just sex. I don’t want a relationship with another man.” My husband does NOT want a relationship with another man.

This is called minimization and it's very common among gay-in-denial or cheating husbands. 

4. This isn’t just something he says. He would only have impersonal sex with guys from the internet or the local porn video store. He’d go to the store or the guy’s house, do the deed & leave. He never even had lunch with any of them. Heck, he met a guy for 2 years because the guy was same age/ also married/ ‘safe’/ & could get there within 30 minutes every time 😑....and, he didn’t even know his last name.

Ok. Let's turn this around and see if his logic still stands: 

"He would only have impersonal sex with women from the internet or the local porn video store. He’d go to the store or the woman’s house, do the deed & leave. He never even had lunch with any of them. Heck, he met a woman for 2 years because the woman was same age/ also married/ ‘safe’/ & could get there within 30 minutes every time 😑....and, he didn’t even know her last name." 

Question: would you still feel the same if he were having sex with the same woman for two years...at her house? I reckon cheating is cheating my friend. 

5. It’s also one of the reasons he decided to stay in the marriage rather than go out on his own & have sex with men. If he left, he’d have 20-30 minutes of “whoopie!” and the rest of his life would be bleh. He doesn’t want to hang out with any of these men at all. So, there are men who truly only want sex & no relationships.

With all due respect, I think you're in deep denial my friend. Let's look at the facts. Your husband has admitted to a two-year relationship with the same man. That's not just a random hookup on a business trip. We're talking about two years of regular sex with the same person. He further admitted to having sex with this man at his house which means they likely met at your house as well. As I shared in a recent post, straight people tend to think that gay sex happens frequently and spontaneously...like some Roman orgy. Nothing could be further from the truth. Without getting too graphic, when two men have anal sex, there is a top (he who penetrates) and a bottom (he who is penetrated). The bottom has to douche/rinse thoroughly before being penetrated which requires a certain amount of planning. (TMI?) Your husband said his sex friend was also married which requires an even greater amount of planning/secrecy. So these "meaningless" home hook ups with this other married man required a great deal of planning, preparation, and paraphernalia (like lube/condoms). I reckon these two men exchanged a lot of text messages and put a great deal of planning into each hook up. 

I've taken the liberty of scanning your first posts here and understand that you have decided to stay with your husband. If you've been posting here for a while, you now know the risks. You also shared that he's been having gay sex since the "boy scouts" and has a history of drug addiction. Following discovery/disclosure, when a straight spouse confronts her husband with proof of cheating, most couples do try to stay together. Then there is often a "honeymoon" period during which he's a doting and faithful husband. But please be cautious. If your husband has a long history of cheating (with men), he'll very likely do it again. 

I hope that doesn't sting too much my friend. Please focus on the most important person in this relationship: you. And that means: safe sex; posting here; going to therapy; and sharing all of this with a fellow straight spouse, close friend, or family member. Be well!

Last edited by Séan (November 11, 2020 6:49 pm)

Séan many of the items you listed resonated with my experiences with my current spouse.

I sought out and found this group primarily for TTT declaration a few months ago. However this was just the latest progression over several years of increased escalation.

I’ve been wondering lately if there is GID added to the mix (with TTT and what seems to be some level of narc behavior patterns). Him being GID would not change things (this relationship will not continue, with a whole lot of work could become an amicable co-parenting one that is it). However, wondering your opinion of this scenario given your background (realizing not all of these things apply to your personal experience ie TTT, bi)

* man and woman begin relationship that is stereotypical of a hetero one sexually (only item of note here is it seemed to take a long time for him both for the relationship to progress sexually but also how long it took for completion of acts but chalked it up to everyone being different)
* woman discovers man in her underthings, discussion around his long held desire to dress in traditionally female attire and history of that.
* sexual activity after that point progresses more and more toward only pegging type activity (which was never present or requested before discovery) with lack of enthusiasm from the female partner
* evidence of at least online relationships with men at least including receiving explicit photos. Questioned and denial of being gay.
* sexual activity diminishes substantially (partly due to child entering the picture, also due to now exclusive requirement that the man takes on the female role)
* disclosure of TTT full time. Again questioned and denial of being gay. Then disclosure of being bi and anger at the woman (me) for never disclosing being hetero.

Reading story after story here and elsewhere I’m starting to think perhaps he is GID. Just wondering your perspective.

Thanks TangledOil (TO) and OOHC for posting. TO I reckon we're comparing apples (your relationship) to oranges (most straight spouses here). Based on what you've shared here, let's take a snapshot: 

Apples/TO's marriage: knew he was bisexual (not gay) from the beginning, enjoys watching gay porn and pegging (penetrating with toys) husband, active/fulfilling sex life, loving/honest husband, no history of cheating, husband does not want an open marriage.

Oranges/Most straight spouses here: had no idea husband was gay, is repulsed by gay porn and pegging, little to no sex in the marriage, abusive/depressed/dishonest husband, proof of long-term cheating with men, husband wants to open up the marriage "to have his needs met" 

Put bluntly, TO married a prince whereas most straight spouses are married to trolls. So I fully understand why my thread and opinions might trigger you TO...because they simply don't apply in any way to your husband, let alone your relationship. Please let me know your thoughts my friend. 

In reply to Zenobia: 

1. Séan many of the items you listed resonated with my experiences with my current spouse.

I'm so sorry you're suffering my friend. 

2. I sought out and found this group primarily for TTT declaration a few months ago.

What does "TTT" mean? I assume "trans" but please let me know. 

3. However this was just the latest progression over several years of increased escalation. I've been wondering lately if there is GID [gay in denial] added to the mix (with TTT and what seems to be some level of narc[issitic] behavior patterns). Him being GID would not change things (this relationship will not continue, with a whole lot of work could become an amicable co-parenting one that is it).

Ok so you have decided to divorce. Noted.  

4. However, wondering your opinion of this scenario given your background (realizing not all of these things apply to your personal experience ie TTT, bi)

If you're referring to transgender and bisexual relationships, you're correct that I have zero experience with either and try to avoid commenting on both my friend. 

5. * man and woman begin relationship that is stereotypical of a hetero one sexually (only item of note here is it seemed to take a long time for him both for the relationship to progress sexually but also how long it took for completion of acts but chalked it up to everyone being different)

Can you provide more details? 

6. * woman discovers man in her underthings, discussion around his long held desire to dress in traditionally female attire and history of that. * sexual activity after that point progresses more and more toward only pegging type activity (which was never present or requested before discovery) with lack of enthusiasm from the female partner

"Pegging" is often when a wife penetrates her husband anally using a strap on or dildos. Some enjoy it, most women posting here don't. 

7. * evidence of at least online relationships with men at least including receiving explicit photos. Questioned and denial of being gay. sexual activity diminishes substantially (partly due to child entering the picture, also due to now exclusive requirement that the man takes on the female role)

Cheating, denial ("I'm not gay!"), and minimization ("Ok so we had sex once...but it didn't mean anything.") are common among gay-in-denial husbands. 

8. * disclosure of TTT full time. Again questioned and denial of being gay. Then disclosure of being bi and anger at the woman (me) for never disclosing being hetero. Reading story after story here and elsewhere I’m starting to think perhaps he is GID. Just wondering your perspective.

Please define "TTT" as I don't know the term. The denial ("I'm not gay"), grudging acknowledgement in the face of overwhelming proof of sex with men ("Ok I'm bisexual!"), post-disclosure anger at the straight spouse ("You outed me!"), and bullsh*t blame shifting ("You never admitted to...[being hetero]!") are all quite common among the straight spouses I've exchanged with over the years.   

I hope I answered your questions my friend. But please post again if I haven't provided enough info. Be well! 

Last edited by Séan (November 12, 2020 2:45 am)