That is haunting, but at the same time enlightening. I suspect my wife of 22 years (together close to 30) could relate to the quote. When we were intimate, was always the deer in the headlights look, I always thought it was the abuse as child. My reality. 

rekamc wrote:

anyway, going back on topic. Glennon Doyle talks about what it was like to have sex with her husband: "It's like: I try to go dead inside but there is always a little life left in me, and that life makes sex unbearable. I can't be alive during sex, but I can't get dead enough, either, so there's no solution. I just -- I don't want to do it anymore."

I get the impression Glennon Doyle writes this in the context of having sex with her husband after his infidelity that bothered her to the core and not so much because she found out to be lesbian. So quoting her the way you did, may suggest a different picture.

Reading some passages from her book, I found it interesting to discover Glennon Doyles reasoning to be free and authentic, not to oblige to religious or culture pressure, is to a certain extent comparable to my wife's. But with a totally different outcome. 
Where Glennon Doyle stops at "being lesbian is the answer to her personal question", my wife didn't stop there and took a step further. She came to the conclusion that being really true to her self is expressed in her love and marriage with me, despite being lesbian.

So what Glennon Doyle describes as choosing her own liberated way... we personally see as her just conforming to cultural pressure actually. After all, contemporary culture, media, general opinion, expect that one persues to realize his/her sexual orientation as the ultimate goal. Not conforming to this expected path is rejected.
(not to specifically attack Glennon Doyle, because her situation with a cheating husband adds it's own dynamic to the whole).

Freedom of thought is freeing oneself from these external influences and making choices of your own. And true, sexual orientation is a personal aspect. But sexual orientation is just one part of one's "whole set" that makes us what we are. Mind you: to let that aspect rule all other aspects is also a choice!
And to make that explicit choice is certainly influenced by culture. Even to the extent that when one makes that choice to blindly follow what sexual orientation dictates, people describe this as being free...
But actually they are made willingness slaves of their own feelings and followers of comtempory culture without realizing it themselves.

For people in a MOM it's important to understand it's not only about sexual orientation, but also the cultural influences that play a major role. Especially the bi/gay spouses are subjected to that outside influence, it aligns with urges and feelings, so one has to be a real independent thinker to notice it's real effect.
But straights can be also dragged into this line of thought, typicaly resulting in "supportive behaviour". Not helping to rise above it all nor aimed to develop real choices of character for their spouse. 
Life choices should be stemming from the real person as a whole. Not just sexual orientation, but with all aspects included and integrated! Then, and only then, someone is really authentic.

(PS. I'm a straight man, married for 35 years. My wife found out to be lesbian after 20 years into marriage. We struggled to find a way, but arrived in a happy monogamous MOM, fulfilling to both and in all aspects).

Last edited by Dutchman (October 24, 2020 9:19 am)

I pulled that quote from a later in life lesbian forum and the 30+ replies that followed were: "wow that is exactly how I felt back when I had to have sex with my boyfriend/fiancé/husband"

and I agree with what lily said, I don't think about other men in a romantic or sexual manner - whilst I have no problem admitting that a guy is good-looking ("yeah, that is a handsome bastard, good for him") I have zero desire in "being" with other men (be it sexually or romantically speaking)

also I'm not a fan of this new age bullshit that has been going around these past few years (pan, bi, fluid, queer, ominsexual, etc..) in my opinion sexuality is pretty straight forward; you either like A or B - then again my ex was a closet lipstick lesbian who lied to me for over 30 years so my view on sexual orientation is definitely distorted

Last edited by rekamc (October 27, 2020 6:11 pm)

I pulled that quote from a later in life lesbian forum and the 30+ replies that followed were: "wow that is exactly how I felt back when I had to have sex with his boyfriend/fiancé/boyfriend"

Don't get me wrong, I think for a part of lesbian women it'll probably be like that. But this is not the general definition how lesbian women relate to sex with a man (or their husband).
It's much more diverse than that and many factors play a role. My wife just didn't feel the physical attraction, but never felt repulsed or something like that also. 
The main factor of her (growing) problem in our sexual relation (before she discovered to be lesbian) was that she didn't know what the cause of the problem was.
So to her the most painful aspect was: "What is wrong with me?"
When she found out 15 years ago, it was more like a relief to her to know she was lesbian and by that she found an explanation.  
Actually, knowing to be lesbian made our sexual relation easier to her. She didn't have to question herself anymore about lacking feelings of attraction that were supposed to be there. This didn't make her uncomfortable to be with me, and why would it? She considered: I was still the same person she married and been with for 20 years. Realizing she was lesbian didn't alter this suddently.
Your "quote out of context" is very different to my experience. (and also not what Glennon Doyle intended, reading the context of your quote in her book).

and I agree with what lily said, I don't think about other men in a romantic or sexual manner - whilst I have no problem admitting that a guy is good-looking ("yeah, that is a handsome bastard, good for him") I have zero desire in "being" with other men (be it sexually or romantically speaking)
also I'm not a fan of this new age bullshit that has been going around these past few years (pan, bi, fluid, queer, ominsexual, etc..) in my opinion sexuality is pretty straight forward; you either like A or B

Duh, I'm a straight man also. For most straights sexuality is pretty clear as well. 
But this doesn't mean it determines how all non-straights are. There it's not A or B, black or white, there is a lot of gray in between. Sure some are more extreme side of gayness (which probably make their sexuality as clear as it is for straights), but others are not. Sexual orientation shifts, or can be subordinate to other aspects. It's a very diverse world out there.
I don't think this is new age bulshit, but I agree some of the narrative is going further beyond into ideological territory. but this aspect/topic is too complex to address and goes off topic I think.

I can imagine the whole diversity feels threatening and unsettling, so reducing it to a simplified world view is like regaining some control over it. Here on SSN which is understandable, but this also seem to apply to the "later in life lesbians forum" which is somewhat remarkable.
IMO resorting to "quoting out of context" is a tell-tale sign. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quoting_out_of_context

then again my ex was a closet lipstick lesbian who lied to me for over 30 years so my view on sexual orientation is definitely distorted

The key may well be the "closet" aspect.
In the many stories I read, this aspect seems to be the game changer. Not the sexual orientation on itself, but how someone relates to it. Even, and more so, in a marriage with a straight spouse.
The "closet" that creates the denial, the secret and privatly kept focus, sometimes the narcissistic consequences for the personality over the years. The closet may well be the silent and hidden creeper, festering in a relation, that makes all the difference over the years.