OurPath (formerly SSN) Open Forum » I am in crisis mode and spiraling

hopelesslylost · June 8, 2020 2:21 pm

I have spent the last 48 hours reading this forum and as many posts as I can. Currently, I (cis female, 46) am sitting here waiting to speak with a crisis counselor. This weekend I discovered my husband has been researching HRT and gender reassignment. He has not spoken to me about this. Gosh, I am really struggling how to put everything into words. I need someone to just understand. I cannot talk to anyone about all of this. First, I love my husband very very much and in no way wish to cause him grief. But I do no know if I can deal with this. I have been struggling with depression and was seeking treatment for it before the whole covid thing. But since then my only option has been remote and with people home I am unable to have the privacy I need to have sessions. Then I lost my job. Although I had never had any disciplinary action whatsoever the let me go for "performance issues"(while I was working from home because I had covid symptoms.) So I was not even eligible for covid unemployment. I have not been able to find work in my chosen field and my depression has gotten significantly worse. Now all of this?!?!?
My husband and I met at a BDSM club in 2006. Kink was the beginning of our relationship. I was submissive and he was dominant. From the first date we were inseparable. He was handsome and masculinity personified. An amazing lover and very soon we found ourselves falling deeply in love. He collared me. For those not familiar it is a ceremony of deep commitment in a BDSM relationship. Everything was wonderful.
about 2 years into our relationship he confessed to me that he liked to pleasure himself with anal toys. I personally have no issues with that but that sort of play is not my thing. I tried a few times with him but it never went well, and frankly was a huge turnoff for me. I once asked him if he thought he might be gay or bi and he said no. He did say he was molested as a young boy. Anyway, long story longer, we moved on from that, got married and 8 years later moved across country to start our wedded life together. Kink has faded into almost nonexistence and we dont really talk about it. Our life is pretty peaceful mostly. He's been pretty depressed recently and I thought it was stress about me being out of work for so long. I really really need a job(sigh) Anyway, this weekend my phone was dead and on the charger and we were sitting here watching tv and I grabbed his phone to lookup the weather because it has been raining nonstop, and I find his browser open to a page on MTF transition. And another tab open to a search for trans makeup tutorials. I looked at his browsing history and the last week it's nothing but searched for HTR, providers in our area, hair removal, and nail polish. I say nothing. I don't know what to say. I am in shock. I put the phone down, and I feel like my life is over. I am sitting here looking out into my beautiful yard and I can't even see anything but the self pity I feel. I have spent most of today crying because I couldn't cry this weekend. My depression has gone from disabling to crippling me. I am writing because I literally have no one to talk to about this.
I have read about couple who made it work. People say that if you love them it's enough. I don't know if it can be. I have had sexual relationships with women. They never fulfilled me in the way my relationships with men have. I honestly don't know if I could even be sexually attracted to him as a woman. I am and always have been an avid supporter of LGBTQ rights. I don't know how I could even support him if this is something he chooses to do. I am too fragile myself to be able to not have a breakdown over this...hell I am having one now. I literally looked up how to have myself committed just a couple of hours ago.
I don't know if any of you have sage words of wisdom to impart that can help me to get my life in order before he comes out and breaks it, but if you can, know that it's appreciated.

Leslie77 · June 8, 2020 5:36 pm

Oh ... I feel for you. When it happened to me, I felt so alone. I could not discuss with anyone I knew. It was soul shaking.

I don't know what BDSM is. Is it sado/masochism? You say that the kink stuff faded away a number of years ago. Do you think maybe he is getting involved in other alternative sexual aspects for some excitement or other fulfillment in his life?

Well, these are my thoughts, since you are asking, please take or leave as you see fit. My husband of 10 years decided several years ago that he had a female identity that he could no longer suppress. I do not know how long "she" had been there; my husband is in his sixties and showed no previous signs of wanting to be feminine ever before although looking back, I do see many red flags that perhaps he had a gay side. Still ...

So, you found this information that it appears he is looking to transition to a female. Have there been other signs? Does he talk about it? Who are his close friends; what are his other interests? I think you need to have a frank conversation with him and ask many questions. I tried that with my husband and I think I was asking the wrong questions. ("Are you gay?" "No" [He wanted to BE a woman. If he had sex with me, does that make me a lesbian? Does it mean that either or both of us are gay? I don't know.]

Beyond the labels - you have to ask yourself if you can handle this, and if so, what are the limits. My husband decided that in addition to going to gay bars and drag queen shows, he was going to dress up as a woman and walk around in our hometown. The thought of him wearing full makeup, sparkly jewelry and a dress made my stomach turn. I thought he was sexually repulsive. We tried to talk it out - but it just wasn't what I signed up for 10 years ago. I really thought I was marrying a man who would love/make love to me in a hetero fashion for the rest of our lives. That didn't happen. We are getting a divorce.

What do YOU want? What can you not live with it? How would you make this work? It's not all about him, you know. Please consider your own feelings. My husband was quite selfish when he was going through his crisis. It took me a long time to understand that I had feelings, too.

I am so, so sorry for what you are going through.

Last edited by Leslie77 (June 8, 2020 6:02 pm)

lily · June 8, 2020 10:40 pm

As Leslie says - it's time to think about what your needs are rather than his. And I would like to echo what she says - discovery is mind-bending. Soul shaking is a good way of putting it. And that feeling of being alone in it all - I found that every person I talked to about it, that helped me feel more grounded and sane.

cis = comfortable in your own skin doesn't it. it's a sort of odd label to me, as if being comfortable in your body as it is needs a label! Sometimes it is used to differentiate between transgender and gay. From the way you talk about it all I get the feeling you are straight not gay?

imo, it is very normal as a straight female to want to be the submissive one. and yes, a husband who wants to put things up his ass is a turn off. Let alone wanting to do the trans thing. My ex was only gay not trans as well, but from what I have learned here and from reading articles there is a lot to be worried about right now not least is the massive costs involved, and the selfishness and the pink fog that goes with it.

He might already be taking the hormones. Have you noticed mood changes?

((hugs))

hopelesslylost · June 9, 2020 1:36 pm

Hi Leslie, I am sorry it too me so long to reply. I am trying to truly think through things and the crying jags make organized thought difficult.

Leslie77 wrote:
I don't know what BDSM is. Is it sado/masochism? You say that the kink stuff faded away a number of years ago. Do you think maybe he is getting involved in other alternative sexual aspects for some excitement or other fulfillment in his life?

Yes BDSM is basically S&M and all it's flavors. The kink stuff faded for a number of reasons. Many of them due to what appears to be a desire to be submissive himself. It's very possible he's exploring other things to fulfill his life but it completely took me by surprise.

Leslie77 wrote:
So, you found this information that it appears he is looking to transition to a female. Have there been other signs? Does he talk about it? Who are his close friends; what are his other interests?

He's never spoken to a desire to be a woman. He has always hated his body hair. I always took it to mean he hated it because he was comparing himself to the muscular shaved models the media portrays and what a pain it is to achieve that look. I mean, he's not the first man I have known to bitch about body hair. He has painted his toes before, but I have know other men to do that too so again never thought of it. His other interests are survival skills, fishing, HAM radios, and music. He really doesn't have close friends. Only work acquaintances. I have close friends but they are all back in my hometown. I have made two friends since we moved here but I wouldn't say we are super close. I personally, am one of those people perfectly happy being snug in my cocoon, and I thought we both were.

Leslie77 wrote:
Beyond the labels - you have to ask yourself if you can handle this, and if so, what are the limits.

Honestly, I read more and more of the stories here and it's so disheartening. I have been struggling with depression and this is already too much, and he still doesn't know I know. I do not know if I have the capability to move forward in any way. I think about trying to stay together and I read horror stories of self absorbed people completely doing a 180 in personality and behavior and gas-lighting the spouse who says anything. I am barely hanging on by a thread and I cannot imagine absorbing more stress and being able to manage that.

Leslie77 wrote:
The thought of him wearing full makeup, sparkly jewelry and a dress made my stomach turn. I thought he was sexually repulsive.

The thought is repulsive to me as well. I am very supportive of the LGBTQ movement, but I know what I am attracted to and that is not it. I do love him, and I know this sounds terribly selfish, but I cannot put all my energy into him until I am healthy. And who knows when that will be. I do know this is a major setback.

Leslie77 wrote:
We tried to talk it out - but it just wasn't what I signed up for 10 years ago.

I am so afraid to talk to him about this. I don't want him to confirm. I am loosely able to deny or rationalize what I found right now. I know I need to talk to him though. The longer I wait the longer crisis mode last. The longer I am frozen in limbo. He has spent the last week asking me if I love him no matter what and so on. So I believe his intention is to bring it up soon. If he does not I will. I am sick with this knowledge.

Leslie77 wrote:
Beyond the labels - you have to ask yourself if you can handle this, and if so, what are the limits.

Honestly, I read more and more of the stories here and it's so disheartening. I have been struggling with depression and this is already too much, and he still doesn't know I know. I do not know if I have the capability to move forward in any way. I think about trying to stay together and I read horror stories of self absorbed people completely doing a 180 in personality and behavior and gas-lighting the spouse who says anything. I am barely hanging on by a thread and I cannot imagine absorbing more stress and being able to manage that.

Leslie77 wrote:
The thought of him wearing full makeup, sparkly jewelry and a dress made my stomach turn. I thought he was sexually repulsive.

The thought is repulsive to me as well. I am very supportive of the LGBTQ movement, but I know what I am attracted to and that is not it. I do love him, and I know this sounds terribly selfish, but I cannot put all my energy into him until I am healthy. And who knows when that will be. I do know this is a major setback.

Leslie77 wrote:
What do YOU want? What can you not live with it? How would you make this work? It's not all about him, you know. Please consider your own feelings. My husband was quite selfish when he was going through his crisis. It took me a long time to understand that I had feelings, too.

I am so, so sorry for what you are going through.

I want to wake up and have this all just be the worst dream I have ever had. But I realize that this is my reality. I guess what I want is the shortest path to being out of this pain. If that's him deciding he will give me an easy divorce to stop this charade, I guess that will be what I choose. I know it means I will likely have to move cross country again. I suspect it means I will be lonely for the rest of my days. I am well past that age where love comes easily and dates are something you turn down regularly. But perhaps, maybe that's for the best. Thank you for your kind words Leslie. I appreciate your support I am sorry you also had to go through this.

OutofHisCloset · June 10, 2020 6:20 am

I'm sorry you're in this situation, especially as it's going to get worse before it gets better.

I agree that it is highly likely your partner is about to drop his trans bomb on you, and is hinting at it with his "will you love me no matter what?" questions. That mode of hinting, while not telling, by the way, is something I experienced with my now-ex. It's manipulative, and designed to get you to trap yourself: if you say "yes," then when he says "I'm transitioning!" you've painted yourself in a corner, as far as he's concerned, and can attack you for your doubts ("You said you'd love me no matter what!"). And please forearm yourself for the inevitable "I'll be the same person" argument. He won't. If he were, he wouldn't insist on transitioning. He wants to fundamentally alter himself, and he wants you to fundamentally alter yourself: if he becomes a transwoman and still wants to have sex with you, then he'll insist that you're now a lesbian, or, as sometimes happens, he'll insist that you always were a lesbian, because he, "the woman who was hiding in a man's body" (and or the record, this is an impossibility) for all those years, was always one, too. I'm here to tell you that this will wreak havoc with your sense of self as a woman.

You're going to have to make hard choices for yourself, and to do so while being pressured and attacked by your partner. You two already have had a dom-sub relationship, and although he may indeed be fantasizing about being the sub, he will go about doing so from a position of calling the shots. I always said my now-ex was never more masculinist (dominating) than when he was acting as if he were a caricature of a submissive feminine woman. If you look at my posts, going way back, you will see the particulars of what I experienced, including my experience of sex with him, while with my agp then-husband.

  I probably can't save you from your own impulses with a story of what I did wrong, but I can't not try. So I'll say that a traumatic experience was made more so because in my shock at the blow struck at my marriage of 32 years (at the time he dropped his trans bomb), to save my marriage I made an ill-thought out decision to participate in his fantasies, which ended up making it more difficult, because of the trauma bonding and sex, to leave. But leave I did, after three years.

I am in my mid-60s (early 60s at bomb drop), and I am so glad I did leave. My life now is more peaceful than it ever was, and I am now able to see how my own bouts of depression were fed by the situation of living with a person who, never happy with himself, managed to project onto me his unhappiness by blaming me for it to the point that I internalized that blame. My physical and psychological health has improved dramatically. I'm not saying life will be hearts and flowers for you, but at least you will be able to deal with your problems, and not problems caused because of an unstable partner.

I have posted in the general list a list of resources (search my name and you should find this post) for those of us who are partnered to trans-identified men, and on it is a reference to the psychologist Michael Bailey's "The Man Who Would be Queen," which defines and outlines the characteristics of men with autogynephilia ("the love of oneself as a woman"); if you read it (it's available as a pdf for download), you will see that men with autogynephilia also often are attracted to other sexual paraphilias, masochism among them. It is also common for men who have autogynephilia to have worked in very male fields or been associated with "he-man" type activities (think Bruce/Cailtlyn Jenner--Olympic athlete or James/Jennifer Pritzker--Col. in the Army); that your partner was your "dom" but now seems attracted to submissiveness is not an indication that he can't be an autogynephile. Because an autogynephile is a man who gets sexually excited by the thought of himself as a woman, and because you have already engaged in a sub-dom relationship, you will likely be called upon to assist him in fulfilling his sexual fantasy of acting like a woman, and he will be asking you to dominate him. Again, this wreaks havoc on your own sense of who you are as a woman.

I notice that you say "If [the easiest path out is] him deciding he will give me an easy divorce to stop this charade, I guess that will be what I choose." Thinking in those terms leaves the ball in his court, giving him the power of decision making. If you want a divorce, you do not have to wait for him to decide anything. You go to a lawyer, and you discuss with the lawyer what rights you have under the law, how marital property is apportioned in your state, and, if you decide you want out, you tell whatever lawyer you hire to file.

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (June 10, 2020 6:27 am)

hopelesslylost · June 10, 2020 11:04 am

Hi Lily, I have been thinking about all of this stuff on repeat. I wish I could simply step out of my own head for just 1 day.

lily wrote:
As Leslie says - it's time to think about what your needs are rather than his. And I would like to echo what she says - discovery is mind-bending. Soul shaking is a good way of putting it. And that feeling of being alone in it all - I found that every person I talked to about it, that helped me feel more grounded and sane.

I have been shaken to my core. Every day I wake up and it's immediately a bad day. What an awful feeling. Thankfully I found this forum. I have looked for other support and thus far there is none. No support groups in my city, and other support seems all towards helping your partner/spouse transition. Nothing for us, the widows. The faithful partners whose entire lives are upended because the world has forced them to suppress themselves. having the feedback, the kind words, of you all has made me feel less alone.

lily wrote:
cis = comfortable in your own skin doesn't it. it's a sort of odd label to me, as if being comfortable in your body as it is needs a label! Sometimes it is used to differentiate between transgender and gay. From the way you talk about it all I get the feeling you are straight not gay?

I guess I would say I am mostly straight. I have had a couple of relationships with women. Mostly they left me always feeling of kilter and unfulfilled. I have always experienced SSA, but always gravitated to men way more. It's more like my bi side is better left in fantasy. I know it makes no sense but it is what it is for me.

lily wrote:
imo, it is very normal as a straight female to want to be the submissive one. and yes, a husband who wants to put things up his ass is a turn off. Let alone wanting to do the trans thing. My ex was only gay not trans as well, but from what I have learned here and from reading articles there is a lot to be worried about right now not least is the massive costs involved, and the selfishness and the pink fog that goes with it.

I know that for a while after he initially told me of his anal proclivities I cringed a bit whenever I thought about it. I learned to compartmentalize that aspect of his sexuality in order to be able to have sex with him, but it definitely influenced my feelings. I am worried I would never be able to get over this and return to any kind of sex with him or her should he decide to start transitioning. And the costs would force us to give up on what I thought was our retirement dream. But from what I have been reading the "pink fog" would make it all worth it to him.

lily wrote:
He might already be taking the hormones. Have you noticed mood changes?

((hugs))

No real mood changes other than him being depressed. I don't think he is taking anything yet. But I have gone full bore looking either. I am not going to lie I have searched the house. But not his truck and I have no idea what he might keep at his office. Thank you for the virtual hugs. I could use hugs right now.

Abby · June 10, 2020 11:46 am

The fact that you are in this much pain is a warning that to accommodate him you are trying to contort yourself into positions which are outside your range of motion. Now is when you need to stop thinking of yourself as a submissive but as an equal entitled to live your own identity and sexual expression. You do not have to settle for whatever he doles out.

Don't force the issue with him now but start preparing for it to come up. Before deciding whether to stay or go you should know where you stand legally at this point in your marriage and what the family finances are so you can protect yourself financially. Don't wait for him to catch you off-guard but have a plan formed to deploy as needed. It will help you move from "fragile" to strong.

OutofHisCloset · June 10, 2020 2:00 pm

Here is another forum that is reserved for the wives of trans identified males. I know they will welcome you.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3898348-Trans-Widows-Escape-Committee-4-A-New-Hope?msgid=96172775#96172775

hopelesslylost · June 11, 2020 8:32 am

I promise I will respond to everyone. I just want to thank you all for your support. I have been reading the MUMSNET threads as well as several other resources. It breaks my heart that so many have struggled for so many years, all the while being overshadowed by the needs of their spouse. Are there any truly happy straight spouses of transgender reveals? Anyone who has really made it work? I have read a few bit pieces on how people are trying to make it work. But nothing, like a long term blog or something about a couple have made past 5 or 10 years and transition. I have see women paint on a smile over the saddest eyes I have ever seen. What is the reality here? I have read so much hurt and anger and vitriol along with a few platitudes that ring false among the rest of the pain expressed. I don't hate him. He has been a kind an wonderful and giving man. The MtF's I have read about are selfish, narcissistic, abusive, and angry. I just can't even see my husband as being any of those. Do they all get that way? I need the reality. Are there statistics?

hopelesslylost · June 11, 2020 3:22 pm

OutofHisCloset],
Thank you for all of your tips and pointers.

OutofHisCloset wrote:
I agree that it is highly likely your partner is about to drop his trans bomb on you, and is hinting at it with his "will you love me no matter what?" questions. That mode of hinting, while not telling, by the way, is something I experienced with my now-ex. It's manipulative, and designed to get you to trap yourself: if you say "yes," then when he says "I'm transitioning!" you've painted yourself in a corner, as far as he's concerned, and can attack you for your doubts ("You said you'd love me no matter what!"). And please forearm yourself for the inevitable "I'll be the same person" argument. He won't. If he were, he wouldn't insist on transitioning. He wants to fundamentally alter himself, and he wants you to fundamentally alter yourself: if he becomes a transwoman and still wants to have sex with you, then he'll insist that you're now a lesbian, or, as sometimes happens, he'll insist that you always were a lesbian, because he, "the woman who was hiding in a man's body" (and or the record, this is an impossibility) for all those years, was always one, too. I'm here to tell you that this will wreak havoc with your sense of self as a woman.

I has already messed with my sense of self as a woman. Just thinking back to things he has said or bought me. Interestingly enough, he has always called me a Lesbian. Not all the time mind you but at least every couple of months throughout our entire relationship. I was always forthright with him about my sexual experiences. I also always told him that I was bi-curious and was never happy in those relationships.

OutofHisCloset wrote:
You're going to have to make hard choices for yourself, and to do so while being pressured and attacked by your partner. You two already have had a dom-sub relationship, and although he may indeed be fantasizing about being the sub, he will go about doing so from a position of calling the shots. I always said my now-ex was never more masculinist (dominating) than when he was acting as if he were a caricature of a submissive feminine woman. If you look at my posts, going way back, you will see the particulars of what I experienced, including my experience of sex with him, while with my agp then-husband.

I have started reading your posts. Thank you for sharing so much of your experiences.

OutofHisCloset wrote:
I probably can't save you from your own impulses with a story of what I did wrong, but I can't not try. So I'll say that a traumatic experience was made more so because in my shock at the blow struck at my marriage of 32 years (at the time he dropped his trans bomb), to save my marriage I made an ill-thought out decision to participate in his fantasies, which ended up making it more difficult, because of the trauma bonding and sex, to leave. But leave I did, after three years.

I can't even imagine. The few times I have tried to indulges his desires to have me dominate him and also arse play with him, have left me disgusted and demoralized. Unable to become aroused my even my own sexual fantasies for weeks at a time. And I had a pretty healthy libido.

OutofHisCloset wrote:
I am in my mid-60s (early 60s at bomb drop), and I am so glad I did leave. My life now is more peaceful than it ever was, and I am now able to see how my own bouts of depression were fed by the situation of living with a person who, never happy with himself, managed to project onto me his unhappiness by blaming me for it to the point that I internalized that blame. My physical and psychological health has improved dramatically. I'm not saying life will be hearts and flowers for you, but at least you will be able to deal with your problems, and not problems caused because of an unstable partner.

I wish there was a way to unsee all of this, to unknow. I was mostly secure in our relationship, other than my pervasive depression that I have been struggling with. I thought we were good. I thought we were really solid. On the plus side of this is it gives me time to process all of this before it is "revealed" to me. But now I wish to get to the peaceful life beyond. If only we could snap our fingers and magically things would happen.

OutofHisCloset wrote:
I have posted in the general list a list of resources (search my name and you should find this post) for those of us who are partnered to trans-identified men, and on it is a reference to the psychologist Michael Bailey's "The Man Who Would be Queen," which defines and outlines the characteristics of men with autogynephilia ("the love of oneself as a woman"); if you read it (it's available as a pdf for download), you will see that men with autogynephilia also often are attracted to other sexual paraphilias, masochism among them. It is also common for men who have autogynephilia to have worked in very male fields or been associated with "he-man" type activities (think Bruce/Cailtlyn Jenner--Olympic athlete or James/Jennifer Pritzker--Col. in the Army); that your partner was your "dom" but now seems attracted to submissiveness is not an indication that he can't be an autogynephile. Because an autogynephile is a man who gets sexually excited by the thought of himself as a woman, and because you have already engaged in a sub-dom relationship, you will likely be called upon to assist him in fulfilling his sexual fantasy of acting like a woman, and he will be asking you to dominate him. Again, this wreaks havoc on your own sense of who you are as a woman.

Thank you, I downloaded and started reading the book. Very difficult to read but I am going to work my way through it. Again I am not interested in helping him playout the fetish or fantasy or whatever. Since autogynephilia is a fetish, are there ways of therapy to help? I know wishful thinking.

OutofHisCloset wrote:
I notice that you say "If [the easiest path out is] him deciding he will give me an easy divorce to stop this charade, I guess that will be what I choose." Thinking in those terms leaves the ball in his court, giving him the power of decision making. If you want a divorce, you do not have to wait for him to decide anything. You go to a lawyer, and you discuss with the lawyer what rights you have under the law, how marital property is apportioned in your state, and, if you decide you want out, you tell whatever lawyer you hire to file.

We are a no fault state, but since I am out of work right now I am not sure how it would work. I have looked up a couple of lawyers. I was hoping to just get an uncontested divorce.