My wife has a relation where she's loved by a man who is trustworthy, who she can count on even when times are difficult and dark. Someone she can open up to and share her most inner feeling with. Have fun with, have deep conversations with, to watch Netflix with, take walks in the forrest with, be (grand)parents with, and he is also a good cook. For me goes the same the other way around (except the cooking). In other words: a happy life together with someone you really love and who really loves you. Sexuality is important, but real love is the most valuable. And that is something she "gets out" our relation, and "puts in" too!. In our case sexual fulfillment followed and is now part of the deal also.


My wife told me once that she would really like making love to a woman, to experience that. (btw. she only said this to express her feelings, not that she was about to embark on an way to actually cheat on me). Well... being a lesbian that's no surprise. I like making love to a women too, so I surely can relate to it. Being a 50+ man with healthy sex drive, I would like making love to two women in their twenties. Yep, we all have our wishes. And mostly, if we're sensible, leave it at that. To quote Mick Jagger: "You can't always get what you wah-ahnt".

For it's important to realize what you really want. 
Do I really want that threesome fantasy fulfilled? My sexual orientation, sexual feelings and hormones all say "yes, go for it!!!" 
But I'm more than just those set of feelings. For example: What about my faith? I don't feel suppressed by my faith, no it's freedom for me. But I do know that sexual infidelity is a no go. It's wrong. Not because it's a law "Thou shall not...", but because it goes against the biblical notions of love and faithfulness and what marriage depicts. Those are beautiful concepts that have real value.
Or what about the vow I spoke to my wife when we married. My very consciously outspoken "Yes" to all witnessing it (including God). And my "Yes is a Yes". I would make a liar of myself if I wouldn't keep my word. I wouldn't want to have that on my conscience. After all: Love is not just a feeling but it's an act of your will.
I would give a distorted meaning to Love if I cheated my wife, the one I love most in this world. I would also be the cause of much pain for her, while I'm supposed to be dedicated to her wellbeing. Well, I can extend this list of objections by many more reasons. 
So when I consider "what I really want", it's not that threesome with some great looking girls (ah, it would be so nice...), but actually it is: living up to values and principles that are worth something. 
btw. I only describe it this way to make a point (i.e.. Realization what my true will is), it's not like I have a ongoing urge and struggle to keep myself from going on sexual escapades...

And that is why I wrote "Draw the line". 
For it constitutes what you are. If I were to deviate from it, I would severely harm myself (and possibly others).  
Not just because I feel obliged by others (... if they wouldn't know, so I could get away with it...), but something I hold for myself. It's my own free choice, my own free will, I'm free to decide!

The same thing goes for the homosexual spouse. He/she has to realize (or determine) what he/she really wants and make a choice. Realize and making a choice, is not the same as having "good intentions". No, it's a considered decision based on what one really is inside, their true self. Including every aspect that makes them the person who they are (sexual orientation included). So according to their own true and complete identity. Not because you are policing it, but because he/she understands their own complete identity and decides for her/himself.
My wife isn't suppressing her feelings. She doesn't experience it as a yoke, just accepting the fact that she's lesbian as a part of who she is, and so be it. So she isn't struggling against feelings or fighting cravings. And how she leads her life, is according to her conscious and free choice i.e.. according to her complete identity. 

 
More than once my wife met people who said: "Live out your lesbian sexual orientation, be true to your self!". But my wife replied she is exactly doing that: by being in a loving and monogamous relation with me. This is being true to herself, because her "identity" is not only determined by her "sexual orientation", but much more than that. (pe. like the motivations I gave concerning my "threesome fantasy").
So it's not about suppressing feelings. It's letting them be in the total constellation that forms us as whole persons. Letting feelings be as they are, doesn't mean giving in to every whim. It would make a bloody mess if we did, hetero, gay or lesbian alike. No we are not slaves to feelings (ie. not unless we allow it to be so). So live according to real and complete identity.

When feelings are in focus, they tend to dominate the mind. So struggling with homosexual feelings, is often caused by loosing overview of what the whole identity is. Fighting against feelings brings them into focus, but accepting them makes them "just an one of the many aspects". And who cares... we all (hetero of gay) have "aspects" in our complete identity. So going about it in a relaxed and accepting way, prevents it becoming a focus point (for myself AND my wife). The overall aspects that make a whole person become the more important, and that builds trust, assuming that both have the same values and goals. This is very important! You have to go for the same joint goal and hold shared values. This must be very clear, it's not okay if one should sacrifice him/herself to a no good spouse.

But please take note that not all gay/bi spouses are the same and will live-out according to a some unavoidable path. That is also the reason that made me decide to write some postings on this forum. For one might think that every (monogamous) MOM is a doomed in some way or another (or sooner or later).


Communication is so very important. Did you talk about these issues, do you know what your husbands true complete identity is, does he know/realizes it himself? If he does, has he made real decisions based on his own free will choices? If so, for you the task to rebuild trust. And I know how difficult and elusive this is. That's also not a switch button, it takes much time. Allow mistrust to exist while trust is not restored yet, speak it out to each other, don't feel guilty about it. And help each other building trust.

It's really work that is measured in years rather than weeks or months. But it can be so very worthwhile! Like I wrote: "this was the best thing that could happen to us". Not denying years of deep sorrow and misery we got through. When we started our journey, communication was very hard, my wife would "shut down". It was very frustrating to me. Later I realized a part of this had to do with my own vulnerability, it was hurting to me to hear and accept all that was so different from what I expected from life and marriage. And my wife didn't want to hurt me (because she loved me).
We wasted a lot of time trying not to hurt each other. It's certainly a good thing to be careful and considerate, but in the long run it hinders. As I wrote in my post about our life experience, a decision taken from my faith lifted me above vulnerability. That really moved things forward in our lives (I don't know if you're christian?).
My wife saw that she could say more about what she felt, without it depressing or hurting me. I could handle it in a positive way, that gave her confidence to speak more. etc. It's step by step. 

And now.. we talk about everything, open and not restricted anymore (well... sometimes we need to give each other a little push). For us this has become naturally. That's just one of the things that changed (and maybe wouldn't have changed if we didn't go through all that had happened). 

We are all that too....the sharing, the walks, the grand/parenting, cooking together, exercising together. I trust my partner in EVERYTHING BUT THIS DIFFERENCE IN OUR BASE SEXUALITY . And initially the sexual attraction we had for each other was part of the very core that made us US. The possibility that one day he won't be able to contain the desires he's stuffing down, and he will destroy us holds me back. 

So your relationship is worthwhile, both feel good in it, love each other, and (if possible) definitely want to continue together. You have invested many years, it's worth going for.
There is a great deal of trust, all would go well, except for that one thing... The elephant in the room.

As I understand nearly three years ago you discovered (or he mentioned/admitted) a new sexual side of your husband (bisexual desires, crossdressing).
I can feel with you, this wasn't something you were waiting for or was expecting to happen! I think this goes for most/all hetero spouses, including me.
Deep down there is a feeling "how can you do this to me!" For me it also felt dishonest: "I've been there for you through all those years of (your) troubles, and this is my reward!?". (yeah, well, that's me also, I'm not pretending to be perfect). That moment the sky falls down, and it really sucks!
And then you ask yourself: Am I accepting this or not? (it may take some time to answer this).

First thing: Am I willing to accept my spouse as she/he is? Some people reject the very notion of homosexuality (or accept it as long as it's far from their own beds and homes, easy talking while it's not something they themselves have to deal with). When it comes really close, you're confronted with it in your own life, it's a totally different ball game. Even more so when it happens within your own marriage. The things you know about homosexuality (or you 'think to know' about it) are just not good enough.
Trying to understand sexuality is like entering a swamp, there are no fixed rules, or predictabilities like "if you push this button, then that will happen". Everybody and every situation is different and brings his/her own set of rules. So you're on your own, figuring things out in your own private situation.

Well... how to think about your spouse being a lesbian, or a bisexual with crossdressing? 
How does it feel? Can you accept that fact? And are you willing to?
 
It must be hard for you. You're lost from what you thought you were in his eyes and at the same time see something in him that doesn't appeal to you at all.

Albeit our settings and backgrounds are different, this is our common denominator I think.

My partner, for a man in his mid-fifties, seemed not to grasp the danger he was putting me in...by not wearing protection (this during the 4 year open r'ship we both had) and it was this that started my ending of the OR. Our sex-life now is very....vanilla. Just how I want it to be because my mind is forever full thinking "it's not really me he's with"

Because of the period you both were in a OR and how he handled protection, not acting responsible, is worrying you. He might act out irresponsible again. Not only concerning safe sex, but in a broader way. So... can you trust him? This distrust is part of what´s consuming you, and is spoiling what possibly might be positive.

I read most couples who stay together in a MOM...end it after 3 years. We're at 2 years, 9 months

I wouldn't take this deadline as something that has to apply to you. You handled things wisely, drawing the line, not following blindly "the things that you are supposed to do". That is a big win!
And I get the impression your husband isn't foolishly following feelings as they emerge. Yes, he is different, and it's gonna be an challenge for you both to deal with his "awkwardness". But if you both try and learn to be open, there is a good opportunity go for it. Keep to your true self, and don't give in! Look inside both of you! What are you worth really? Can you rebuild trust? Talk with each other, be open. 
I think you both have still ample opportunity to find a positive way through this all. 
But both have to think another (and better) way to cope with things than you're doing now. For I do understand your feelings and doubt at this moment.

He doesn't like talking about it. Initially, when he thought he could 'win me around' to his suggestions of me allowing him "one day a month to fill his bisexual desires"...he talked about it often. Now I've drawn the line  he's scuttled back into his introverted (his word) self and pretends like this whole Mindfuck didn't happen

Okay, well done by you! For if you went down the line he proposed, you would probably be signing your divorce papers with it. The thing is: does he understand that too? Let him wake up to more understanding of himself and you and life. The things you wrote about your relationship you both have... is he blind not to see the treasure he shares with you in that? 
Sharing the strange and awkward things, accepting them, communicating it can bring you to another level through it all, if you grasp it.
Both have to be in it 100%! You have to start talking (again?). Without open communication, there is no chance rebuilding trust.

 

I just want to say Dutchman....I don't know but maybe you've written a book because it seems like you are well-versed in all this. All the advice is very counselor/psyclogist-sounding, like you do this for a living, as well as actually being in & experiencing a mixed-orientation r'ship...
....but it's so good to be able to talk to another person in the same boat as me, and having felt the same vulnerability as I do

I'm just a guy who went through this situation the last 15 years. However, I did read what I could about the subject and did al lot of research and thinking about it, for it was my own situation I had to deal with. My wife is also a source of wisdom. It´s because of her I can see and talk about the other side of the straightspouse. IRL We do have contact with other people concerning homosexuality (in or outside MOMs). 

Lily, I'm an ordinary christian, with a daytime job in the IT business. My wife works as a nurse for elderly people. 

God and our faith is important to us, in mind and heart. Faith was certainly our source of inspiration and strength to handle the difficulties that came on our path in life.
But I do acknowledge there are other sincere christians, who have faith and love for God and do what they can, but can't find a way to make a MOM work. So I'm certainly not saying that if one has enough faith, one can be sure live a happy MOM. There are so many factors involved and it's much too complex to reduce it to that. And apart from that, I want to be miles away from judging people or blaming them for handling things wrong "as good christians should". God goes His way with every person, whatever this way maybe, and with that I leave it in good care.

Faith can certainly be a strong force coping with the situation that arises. Most importantly because faith is something that is (potentially) more important then sexual orientation. So it can help to get above all the emotions and feelings, and see things in another perspective. A person is so much more then just 'sexual orientation', having ones identity in Christ is a paramount more important aspect.
But also people who aren't christian, can surely realize that they are made up of so many more ingredients then just their sexual orientation I hope.
The culture we live in puts much pressure upon people to reduce themselves to "a package of sexual feelings". One feels obliged to live out feelings, otherwise one is deemed as being "not authentic". As if there is not so much more that defines us as a person.

But don't get me wrong, by this I'm NOT saying that sexual orientation should be suppressed, denied or ignored. Sexual orientation certainly is an important aspect of who we are, everyone has to deal with it, and should deal with it. I also think it's a good thing that homosexual relations are accepted more widely, less homosexual people feel the (external) pressure to get into a MOM for wrong reasons. For many 'sexual orientation' is not so complicated. I think most of us here, heterosexual spouses, 'sexual orientation' was hardly an issue to ponder much about... until you found yourself being a spouse in a MOM.

I certainly think it's the utmost important for the homosexual spouse, to sort it out for themselves what they really are as complete persons. What actually forms their real and complete identity. Sexual orientation will be one of these aspects (not to be denied), but also ask the question which priority this has this among all other things they are made of? Including their real love for their hetero spouse and family, their principles and values. It would be a sad thing if homosexual spouses in a MOM believed to be nothing more then their "sexual orientation" and all the rest by definition is of minor or less importance. To others, but most of all to themselves. They must get this straight, no pun intended.

So there is a rational and well considered aspect to this, which is very important, for this is the foundation. But there are also feelings and an emotional part of it.

There acceptance played a mayor role for us. I accepted my wife, just how she was, and she accepted herself as she was. This is crucial! Real acceptance. Not just by word of mouth but really so. While there is some internal resistance against it, there is no real acceptance. So it has to be really "really accepting"?
Just accepting the fact that she is lesbian? Yes, that would be accepting her 'sexual orientation', but not who she fully is as a complete person.
She is more then that. Accepting her complete, is not only acknowledging her sexual orientation, but embracing what she is as a person. Including her love for me, her faith, her love for our life and history together. AND vice versa! Mind you, this is not a one way street. Both are involved equally, you're in a marriage right? These things should go both ways. So she accepts me as I am, not just by word of mouth etc. Both spouses on a road together. Very much connected, and maybe more than the average marriage. Like you said: "we're doing something special, something extra loving". 
So right this is! But it has to come from both sides to work in a MOM. It's really as simply as this: the homosexual spouse has to be real loving also. Real love as in true love, not a commercial or popular kind of thing, but real! Conforming to their real identity as complete persons. 
I don't blame you (or others) that tried their best to make it work, it has to come from both sides equally. 
It's a challenge to both to get to higher grounds, but it can go far beyond the "how do I cope with that lesbian feelings, that I wish they were not there".  

About religion I would like to make some observations.
If faith is something that really makes one feel free, it most definitely has a positive effect on navigating your life in a MOM. To us our christian faith is a part of celebration of our marriage, by grace we feel free to do right things. Not under a law of do's and don'ts, but do what is beautiful and good. (certainly not meaning to go loose on anything our emotions or feelings come up with).

But some say "homosexuality is a deadly sin", according to their interpretation of the scriptures. I think they are wrong! But all of this has an very negative impact on dealing with homosexuality within a MOM. One focuses on avoiding this sin (or tendencies towards it). Well, the most effective way to make something a real problem for people is by making it a sin. Struggle and fight... Yeah right, it's an accident waiting to happen and don't hold your breath.

No way for us, we didn't want to get on this road to disaster. So no Exodus, ex-gay, healing or prey the gay away. To our opinion it's all BS.
So for us no back breaking struggle and or fighting against sinful thoughts! Not at all, we accept all without having a struggle to have to fight something. (there is nothing real to fight against).
Whoops, can't I have a thought or temptation? Well yes, and deal with it. (like all people have to, duh).
Being as I am, I'm not different or better then my lesbian spouse. I have to deal with this also, and who cares about that?  But in all these things alike we have to live to our principles and convictions, and stick to that. Draw the line. It's very wholesome for the both of us.

It all has an emotional impact on us hetero spouses too. If you're really in it together, it's evenly distributed I think (at least of sorts). Both go through their own kind of feelings, not the same, but not less hefty for both spouses a like. Actually, in our situation at least, it was easier for my wife than it was to me to deal with sexuality. I was struggling with my expectations that I had of marriage, my expresion of love through sex wasn't appreciated/received the pure way I intended. I didn't feel appreciated as a man. It felt horrible, I really did. Eventually I wanted to avoid sexual intercourse, and that didn't work out also. So I got stuck.
My way out was: "Love your wife as God loves you". This was something that went beyond my troubles and feelings, a way that went so much higher then my own feelings and struggle. 
It was the right thing to do and I went for it, no matter what. A leap in faith I suppose.
After that open communication increased. It was step by step, but it did! and was ongoing. One can wait on the other to make the move, but daring to being really vulnerable and taking the first step gets things in motion. I wasn't that vulnerable anymore, I leaped in faith, It was more like: I do this and I don't care what it means to me, because this is way more better then I myself could ever have done.

So... away went my vulnerability. And eventually this had consequences for my wife also. (and because she wanted it to). It's something that goes both ways. 
How this all was the unset to change my wifes feelings is another part of our story. 

I've no problem answering your question, and it's also okay to argue a bit.  

With "ordinary" christian I meant: not being a pastor or something official, just a regular member of our church. 
We're in an Independent evangelical church. It's somewhat orthodox (the bible is Gods Word), but not bound to a tradition. Also not charismatic. Sunday services are like most protestant services: announcements, prayer, singing, sermon, and afterwards drink coffee and talk. We have a dispensationalist view, emphasis is put on the grace of God and not being under the law of Moses. In Christ we're totally free, but don't use this freedom to do wrong, on the contrary, it should enable us to choose good things freely. One is encouraged to read and study the bible themselves, and don't take all traditional views for granted. (of course not to the extend that we question things like mentioned in the Apostles' Creed)
We believe that every christian is member of the Body of Christ, and accept the fact that other denominations can interpret the bible differently, so we don't build "walls" around us. Even within our church, people can feel free to think differently about subjects. To quote Paul: "One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind". We certainly believe God goes His way with each believer personally, to make us bear His image more and more in life. We consider this a graceful honor, not something that is pressed upon us by fear for punishment.

This gives a general impression of our church. It's certainly not a "spiritualist church", for all I know that's some kind of "new age movement". 
The church your grandma went to may be the ´Plymouth Brethren` (in Holland they are called "The gathering of believers"). Last year I had a theological discussion (in person and via mail) with someone from that church on the subject of homosexuality. Their stance is: "It's no sin to be homosexual, but one must not act on it", so live a celibate life. They affirm the (Dutch version of the) Nashville statement. I hold to a different interpretation of the bible, so we didn't agree. Nevertheless we're on friendly terms and respect each others different views.

But I'm not here for a theological debate about homosexuality. I just want to tell about our personal experience. For us it was essential to fully accept ourselves and each other, without any restraint or reproach. For reproach would become a struggle and fight against who we are. Feeling guilty to God or to the other. It could lead to bitterness and despair or insincerity.
For my wife it was actually a relieve to realize she was lesbian. By that she understood why she had felt so much trouble in the sexual relationship with the man she loved, and didn't have to blame herself anymore for not being able to give and feel what was expected.
Only a few years before that, she truly realized that God loves her unconditionally. So for her it was like God told her: "okay, now you truly know and trust I love you, than now has the time come for you to learn about who you are". So it was more like a blessing to her to realize she was lesbian, then something she had to feel guilty about and struggle against.
Anyway, approaching things quite differently then generally speaking "christians are supposed to be thinking".


Sexual orientation is not to be denied as important part of our being, but following it is not as essential as the beating of the heart. Otherwise my wife surely would have died 15 years ago. ;)
So it's possible to deviate from it. It would be interesting to determine the boundaries and when can a MOM (potentially) be successful? Feel free to shoot or comment!

I think:
1. Both must really love each other. It's hard to describe this in an objective way. Speaking for myself: I would give my life for my wife, for me that's clear enough that I truly love her. And I don't have to feel "in love" every moment of the day. Love is not just a feeling, it's something you decide also. Feelings follow and are result of. 

2. There has to be attraction and respect. Maybe not the physical sexual attraction, but on an emotional level. Sexual orientation is not like an one dimensional line from hetero to homo. There is the physical sexuality aspect, but there is also an emotional/romantical aspect. This last aspect can run different from the physical side of sexuality. It may well be that this is decisive whether a MOM relation is doomed or not. But I think in many/most cases of a MOM there has to be some attraction, otherwise: why did the relation start in the first place, there has to be something going for you. So in my opinion it's not as black and white as you state it to be (like magnetic poles) there is a lot in between. That's not just bisexuality. Labels are not sufficient or suitable. There is much more going on then the term "sexual orientation" suggests.
btw. all of this is not relevant to relations that are build on denial, deceit, dishonesty etc. (and have nothing to do with real love whatsoever). I think those should not even consider staying in a MOM and are better of with divorce asap. 

3. Both must (learn to) have an (some) understanding and control of their feelings. Not blindly following impulses (for that is a sure recipe for damage and disaster).

4. Shared reason and common goal to stay together. Finding it important to keep to marriage vows (as a deeply felt principle), many years of investment in the relation together, being a secure home for children, having a good and happy life together. etc. These things shouldn't be the decisive factors, but do certainly play a role. 
 
5. Willing to seek each others interests in a sensible and loving way. That is NOT necessarily: live out homosexual feelings. Because this will go against all the things before (and not wise if BOTH are aiming for the goal of an monogamous relation). It means finding a constructive way in the sexual relation. It may be limited and not as naturally flowing as it could, but that doesn't mean it's impossible or problematic.
I do agree that it has a limitation. The physical attraction part is lacking (from one side) and that's surely a miss (for both). It won't block real love and other aspects of the relation can compensate for that. One isn't just limited to "sexual orientation" as all defining principle that should be followed at all cost. That is not our experience.
We could find a way to make our sexual relation as good as possible. We just tried to make the best of it. Why should that be impossible if both really love each other and thus are willing to please and give the other? It may not be steamy super sex, but still love is the driving force behind it (and that may well be better then the other way around).
Emotionally there are difficulties, but as I wrote earlier, also these problems can be overcome. So sexually it can certainly be okay to live with and be enjoyed, for both.

6. Open communication. If we weren't able to (learn to) communicate I think we would have failed. Open and honest communication is the oil in the engine. I think this is important for every marriage, but for MOM's it's extra extra important!


Please note that I'm just saying a long term happy MOM can exist. I'm not at all claiming that everyone should, could or must.