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August 24, 2019 12:46 pm  #1


Crowdsourcing content for a new SSN article

Hey friends, 

In recent episodes of the straight voices podcast they have touched on some topics that revolve around giving advice to LGBT spouses on how they should treat us and proceed with their lives.  This has had me thinking about compiling an article to help future straight spouses by advising their spouses to make decisions and take actions that will make our experiences lass traumatic and easier to heal from and move forward.  I want to share it across the internet and use it to help build bridges with LGBT organization who can share it with those who might be in this situation.  I want to education them and open their eyes to our situation so that they can make wise choices and lessen our pain and suffering and show us compassion. 

What is the one thing you wish your ex or soon-to-be-ex or current spouse would have done differently that would have helped make your experience easier?

The obvious answer is "You should have told me you were LGBT and not married me in the first place".   That one is clearly the first point in the article, but we're going to focus on those who have already crossed that bridge.  Now that they are married, what should they do and how should they treat us?

I'm looking to use direct quotes from anonymous Straight Spouse forum members, so if you don't want your words to be used, either don't post or please state clearly you are just adding to conversation and would prefer not to be quoted. 


Here are the types of answers I'm envisioning:   Don't be a narcissist/controlling/selfish jerk.  Don't cheat on us - wait until you separate to experiment or find other partners.  Be honest as soon as possible.  Tell us the whole truth.  Pick a safe place and time to disclose to us so, not the morning before we have to go to work, not with the kids around.  Have some compassion and understand how much this is going to hurt us.  Know in advance that it's hard to predict what range of emotions we will display.  Give us time and space to process.  Be willing to move out for a time if needed.  Put the kids first and don't let them see or hear arguments.  

*The above are just examples.. please feel free to pick any of these or all of them.  I'm not trying to steal an idea.. just getting the creative juices flowing.    If someone already said something similar, but it's the one big thing for you, please feel free to restate it again in your own words.  

Thank you all in advance for your help with this.  I hope we can all take part and make this a helpful resource. 

 


-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 

 
 

August 24, 2019 2:02 pm  #2


Re: Crowdsourcing content for a new SSN article

Worst thing is that in many cases soon_to_be_LGBT spouses are in such condition, that they could not think or act wisely. Severe health, mental and job problems together with new findings just blow their minds.

But, in the ideal world, i'd like to:

- Hear that kind of news in counselor room with family therapy help and lots of talk together about the situation. Not on friday evening when your are playing with a child, just before spouse leaves to a new lover for the night. That thing works too, of course, but it's not that easy.
- To be ready for questions and for the future. Have a plan. I understand, that it's hard to admit "new reality" for that person, also i know that it may take some time to realise "new feelings". But i'd like to hear clear options, what would be done next. What does it mean for her/him, what do he/she plans to do, what are the most real ending.
- It's hardly possible, but it would be ideal that these findings won't include third person "a new family member" around. If spouse loves another person and lives in dreams about him/her, it kills any kind of cooperation. Then it seems a simple treason, like all others.
- Don't try to tell, that "i would like to remain friends, i don't want to hurt you or i still love you". Actually you may tell this, but if all you give (in current time) is pure pain, what's the point of telling this? Leaving spouse should clearly understand, that it's not a happy end, it's a hard decision and it breaks emotionally, even if it would be better for both of you in a long term. So there most certainly may be no "good friends" anymore, especially if there's another person, a treason, lies and so on.
- If you're gone, you're gone. Don't try to be friendly or show your feelings and affection after you decided to leave. If you made the decision, there left nothing to say and you left, then we're now just partners in crime to finish divorce/separation. Not that i like you less now (maybe), but it's hard to see you again, to talk or be in silence together and not to think about "old times". It may differ between people, but i think, that when the decision is made, there should be no looking back. It only makes things more complicated.
- Be prepared for shock and confusion, negative emotions and extraordinary behavior. You lived with "something is not right with me" for years if not all your life. Lived with the idea of "new myself" for years or for months. Very likely, you've had many talks with your conselor/new lover about your situation. Well, welcome to my hell, because i didn't have this long story of adaptation at all. And i don't feel what changed. Yet, the information to accept is the same.

p.s. ups. sorry, forgot about the "one thing" :D i guess i would choose that one about telling "i would like to remain friends". It's a clichee i hate everytime i hear.

Last edited by morpheus (August 24, 2019 2:08 pm)

 

August 24, 2019 2:34 pm  #3


Re: Crowdsourcing content for a new SSN article

I would say, do not project on to your spouse what you think he/she should be doing or feeling.  Do not do things "for your spouse's own good" if they're really for your own good.  Do not confuse your own agenda with what you are convinced is the best thing for your spouse.

In order to stop lying to your spouse, you have to first stop lying to yourself.

Also, particularly trans spouses?  Do not guilt-trip your spouse for not wanting to continue in the marriage.  It's not their job to sacrifice their own view of a marriage just in order to "accept you for who you are."  

 

August 24, 2019 3:23 pm  #4


Re: Crowdsourcing content for a new SSN article

Don't claim to be "bi" as if dating and marrying a member of the opposite sex makes it true. That statement, accompanied by "but I want only you" leads us to believing that there is at least a 50/50 attraction to our gender and that this relationship can work.

I didn't want a husband who at best (and giving him the benefit of the doubt) loved me like a sister. If you can want sex with a man why can't I?

 


Try Gardening. It'll keep you grounded.
 

August 24, 2019 3:31 pm  #5


Re: Crowdsourcing content for a new SSN article

great stuff so far!!!   Thank you and please keep it coming


-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 

 
     Thread Starter
 

August 24, 2019 5:15 pm  #6


Re: Crowdsourcing content for a new SSN article

Don't make us be the bad guy. We read story after story after story about how it is the straight spouse who has to file for divorce and be seen as the one who doesn't want to try to make things work. And that leads us to......

Don't make us live in your closet. Don't make it our responsibility to protect your secret because that means you are asking us to lie to those closest to us and from whom we may need to go to for support.

For the trans-identified spouse, for goodness sake, please don't say that you will never want to fully transition, take hormones, etc. Even if you believe you don't want it now, tell your spouse that you may want it in the future. 

Also understand that while you are celebrating and feeling intoxicated by your new life, your spouse is grieving, but she isn't going to say anything because she doesn't want to hurt you even though you have hurt her right to her very core.

 

August 25, 2019 3:09 am  #7


Re: Crowdsourcing content for a new SSN article

As someone whose ex is in the process of coming out as female, what bought our relationship to a dramatic end is that they never once asked me how I felt or how I found different situations.

I tried to be supportive, I asked them these questions and listened to / discussed their replies together but it was always only one way.

Anything I said that wasn't 100% supportive or positive was stamped on. I wasn't allowed to have my own feelings or express them. They gave me the feeling that I just didn't matter and they assumed that nothing would change between us.

I asked them to read some good articles I found on the experience of the straight spouse but they were only interested in watching makeup tutorials and shopping online.


I think that if we had been able to have open, honest and respectful discussions together, we could have come to a joint decision about our future instead of me taking the decision alone to leave.



Thank you, I think this will be a useful video.

 

August 25, 2019 7:31 am  #8


Re: Crowdsourcing content for a new SSN article

     Personally I believe that the trans experience is different enough from the gay/straight one that you should deal with it separately.  
   
      When a spouse is gay or lesbian, it is sexual orientation that is at issue.  When a spouse declares themselves transgendered, it is sexual orientation AND gender identity. 

     The gay/lesbian spouse does not seek to alter the body with hormones and surgery or believe they need to--and can--change their sex (which in any case is an impossibility, as the basic chromosomal building blocks of female (XX) and male (XY) are not alterable).  Nor does the gay/lesbian spouse suddenly and drastically alter their behavior and appearance and begin performing an exaggerated version of femininity.  Nor does the gay/lesbian spouse seek to redefine the sexuality of the straight spouse; but a transgender spouse, having declared themselves lesbian, now declare themselves to be in a lesbian relationship with us.  Last, straight spouses of gays/lesbians are not told they should be willing to remain in the marriage in order to show their acceptance of their spouse's sexual orientation (and gender identity).

    As for advice? 
      
   Have the courage to accept that in order to become the person you wish to become your have effectively ended the marriage.  Realize and accept as normal and natural that your wife is going to grieve the loss of the person she fell in love with and married.  Every change that is exciting to you is devastating to her.  She fell in love with and married a man; you don't want to be a man.  You want her to love the person you are becoming; she loves the person you were.  Don't lie to yourself; your desire to become a new person means that you are not and will not be--and don't want to be!--"the same person inside."   Don't ask or expect your spouse to "adjust," and don't make her promise to remain in the marriage or ask her to help you, and especially don't suggest that her grief or a desire to leave is an attack on you.  

   And as a personal aside, I will say that I have absolutely no expectation that any of this advice given to a spouse declaring himself transgender will make even a dent, because I can't think of a single instance in which, on this forum, or on any other I've been to, such a spouse has not been a textbook case of extreme narcissism or wounded narcissism-in-waiting.

What I wrote above is what the OFFICIAL SSN position might be able to use, because the SSN position on transgenderism tacitly accepts the belief that one can be "a woman in a man's body" and that one can "transition" from one sex to another.  

     Neither of those, however, meets the criteria of logic and science. There's no credible science to support the "woman in a man's body" nonsense, and it's biologically impossible to change your sex--a man can feminize himself by taking female hormones, but he remains a male; a male can through surgical inteventions seek to change the appearance of the body to more closely resemble that of biological women, but he remains male.  The logic undoes itself at the most cursory glance: if there's no such thing as biology, if biology is "socially constructed" (and yes, gender theory now claims this, that science is not real but a construct), and we are all "assigned female" (or male) at birth, then what is the source of these observable differences in bodies, the very characteristics that transitioning individuals seek to alter themselves for?   
   I believe it is dangerous to women, actual, biological women, to promulgate and support such nonsense. (It's also dangerous to men, too, because taking female hormones has deleterious long term effects on their health.) For just one example, look at what is happening to girls' and womens' sports, where males who simply declare they're women are allowed to compete against women.  From UFC (one transwoman fractured the skull of a woman competitor) to rugby to track and field to bicylcling to weight lifting, males are now accepted as competitors against women--and crowing about their wins and being lauded for their achievements on behalf of transwomen!  
   Parents are desperate in the face of the burgeoning social contamination of all things trans.  Go visit 4th Wave Now and read the stories of mothers of girls--mostly--whose daughters are examples of "Rapid Onset Gender Disorder" (ROGD).  Detransitioned women (females who took male hormones and had surgery, in many cases, to remove their breasts) decry the lack of real psychological help they got with their dysphoria; instead, under "affirmative care," they were rushed to hormones, sometimes after a signle visit.  




 

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (August 25, 2019 8:32 am)

 

August 25, 2019 11:22 am  #9


Re: Crowdsourcing content for a new SSN article

Yes, practically speaking they aren't listening to what the straights say other than how can I spin this to my advantage.

But - the times they.are a'changing - and I predict the time is coming when the straight is an endangered species and highly prized. 

 

August 25, 2019 2:28 pm  #10


Re: Crowdsourcing content for a new SSN article

Paraphrasing others in concise terms that they use on us about acceptance.

“You just voided the fundamental terms of the marriage that I signed on for. There’s no logic to expecting acceptance if I don’t want those terms. I don’t want those terms. “

“Isn’t every death grieved? You just killed the marriage, so why are you surprised at my grief?”

 

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