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1 - OnMyOwnTwoFeet
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Wasting time trying to get husband to see the pain he has caused
I saw these Dr George Simon quotations, and thought about how much time I've wasted assuming that if I just helped my husband understand my pain, it would make a difference. I also have hurt myself by working so hard to evaluate and explain, as it has put me into a role of criticizer or evaluator. I had some panic attacks about this early on: I somehow thought--and my husband told me this too--that if I cared about the relationship, I needed to point out his hurtful behaviors.
So as we have gone along, if I point them out, at great effort to be kind and respectful, he almost always justifies his behavior, or tells me it was my fault, or says he is tired of being told he is a bad person. And then this upsets me even more because it is the old patterns of him never taking responsibility.
Dr Simon points out that this is not helpful in any way:
"It's not that they don't see, it's that they disagree."
And: "Trying to reason with them to examine their behavior assumes something that is patently untrue. It assumes that what they need is insight. . . . We live under this delusion. Therapists do this all the time! They think they are going to be the person who says just the right thing in just the right way, so that this time a light bulb is going to go off in this person's mind and all of a sudden they will understand and "see" the error of their ways! The problem is, they already understand!
"It's not that the disturbed character doesn't know what they're doing and what damage comes from it. If the wounded party is crying their heart out and is miserable, it's not like you don't know what you've done and what an effect it has had -- it's right there. They already see this but disagree with the notion that they should conform their conduct and work to make amends."
- Violated
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Re: Wasting time trying to get husband to see the pain he has caused
Waste of time.....I fully agree.
- control
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Re: Wasting time trying to get husband to see the pain he has caused
Totally agree too! Waste of time & effort trying to explain or get them to see anything. They are aware and ha e been aware of what this would cause or is causing........ hence living a lie (secret life)!!! As I move toward divorce, I no longer will try to explain anything because it is like talking to a body with no one inside!
Looking forward to my freedom from this hell!!!
- Lynne
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Re: Wasting time trying to get husband to see the pain he has caused
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Last edited by Lynne (April 25, 2020 11:18 am)
- Leah
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Re: Wasting time trying to get husband to see the pain he has caused
OMG, yes, it is a total waste of time because to admit how much pain they have caused would require them to admit that they are not the wonderful, understanding, sensitive people that they want to believe they are. And you have probably given them credit for being in the past.
And even more damaging for those closeted spouses, to really admit to the damaging nature of their betrayals and truly empathize with their spouse might get in the way of them feeling good about themselves because they do not want to be gay or seen as gay. So they minimize endlessly, justify themselves and generally try to make it all about you. Classic deflection. My GIDX always managed to make the expression of any justifiable complaint I had seem like a total character assassination. Seriously you would think that to say - he was inconsiderate not to do x, y or z - was tantamount to calling him a murderer - his reactivity was so extreme - but now I know it was simply a very guilty conscience that occasionally (not often) flared up whenever I was displeased with him on some level. I was a harridan if I got angry, only out to make his life miserable if I spoke about his betrayals. He was always so reasonable, from his position of superiority and clear knowledge of the whole picture - which I, unfortunately, didn't have. And probably never will have. Arggh it is always so sad to see so many others with these same issues, but somehow comforting too. Don't waste anymore time expecting others to feel sorry for you. They are just getting on with their lives, like you need to. It sucks.
My name is
beard and I am legion as Kel used to say....
Last edited by Leah (April 18, 2019 7:38 pm)
- StraightSpouse1979
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Re: Wasting time trying to get husband to see the pain he has caused
I could have written this especially today...
The last two days my husband has been going on and on about the hormones he should have but the pharmacy can’t get the generic
That it’s some conspiracy against him and Others like him
I tried to be supportive but it was getting to me
My sleep has been rough at best lately so I said while I under your frustration I don’t think I’m the one to discuss this with
He turns this into i baited him into talking to him and that I don’t care about him
So even expressing my opinions turns into him
- OutofHisCloset
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Re: Wasting time trying to get husband to see the pain he has caused
Ah, the "always a victim" card.
Think about that claim that you "don't care about him." Yet he's the one who has decided he has the right to expect your support when he has upended your marriage in the most fundamental way possible, by declaring that he is no longer your husband but will become your wife. That you fell in love with and married him because he was MALE, that his new hatred of his maleness, and his attempts to feminize himself in a quixotic quest to disavow that maleness? Well, that's nothing for him to worry himself over.
Not when the Entire World is Conspiring against Him and Others Like Him!
Sheesh. Talk about "wasting time trying to get husband to see the pain he has caused"...
Last edited by OutofHisCloset (April 19, 2019 8:37 pm)
- Calamity
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Re: Wasting time trying to get husband to see the pain he has caused
SS1979, I've been in similar situations. I was once well-acquainted with baiting - a less than perfectly sympathetic, affirming response would result in anger, frustration, and diatribes about how I didn't listen, didn't care, wanted "everything my way," and was generally unsympathetic.
Remember: You are not responsible for his coping mechanisms or coping ability. You have a right to take care of yourself. You can say, "I'm sorry you are feeling so upset, but I need some time to relax and get to bed." At one point I tried to put time limits on our discussions ("I need to be in bed by 11:00") but this turned into discussions about how I was callous, hard, and "only allotted" him so much time. He turned my need for sleep right back on me as infringing on his need to talk until all hours about his unhappiness. It wasn't about the time for me, the man I had happily talked with into the early hours in previous stages in our relationship.
For all I said it, I don't think my ex ever understood the lack of sleep he was causing me, much less the emotional hurt. If he is focused so much on himself he won't be able to see the impact on you.
- Lisa Emelsee
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Re: Wasting time trying to get husband to see the pain he has caused
So true with this. I dont think they dont know what they have caused, I think they refuse to deal with what they have done to others. In all the freedom of disclosure and Pat's on the back for bring so brave, they just compartmentalize the trauma the inflicted and stick it in a locked box somewhere in their brain then lose the key. So,if intimacy suffers it's just blown off, not up for discussion. That's how it seems to be going over here anyway.
Lisa, married 8/19/2011 disclosure 7/21/2028.
- a_dads_straight_journey
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Re: Wasting time trying to get husband to see the pain he has caused
They don't understand. Empathy is lacking.
A good example of the projection, and lack of empathy I experienced and still do is the following example.
During my marriage, my ex continually made me feel that her problems were my problems, especially that her intimacy issues were my fault. I tried everything. I read books on how to be a great husband, I read Divorce Busters, Seven Principles of a Healthy Marriage, Covey, etc. I supported and paid for her recreational pursuits of hockey and art so she could get a break from the kids and hopefully have energy to be available for us. She complained that I was a grouch. (Of course I was irritable - deprivation of basic needs (intimacy, connection) creates a hunger that causes irritability and frustration.) I could write a chapter about this topic of her blaming me, projection, and her lack of empathy, but I think her parting comments at the separation says it all - She said " I would have left sooner if you had been more of a dick. You made it too comfortable". I was an excellent provider and father and supportive spouse and yet I was responsible for her denial and her staying? Give me a break.
They lack empathy which causes disagreement which cannot be resolved. Worse yet, in my case, my ex can't even agree to disagree - meaning two parties can acknowledge there can be two valid different viewpoints of the same issue. (This is still a problem, five years out, in co-parenting. )
I found Gordon Livingston's book on "How to Love" very helpful in understanding my ex and accepting these issues. The first half of the book identifies personality traits (not disorders) that have caused relationships to fail and he suggests avoiding anyone with these traits if one is to succeed at a fulfilling long term loving relationship. The second half of the book are the traits he recommends to cherish. (I plan to give each of my children a copy of this book as they enter early adulthood).
Many of the negative traits outlined are evident in our experiences here. We have to accept that these traits exist in our ex-spouse or spouse, are unchangeable, and we need to adapt in interacting with them and move on. Otherwise we will go crazy with frustration.
And, I do not underestimate the energy it takes to adapt. Interactions with my ex are exhausting and take mental preparation to get through any conversation where I know we won't agree. I limit my interactions with her to only parenting issues and it is still difficult.
I hope these observations are helpful....