Hi OGT
I'm butting in here.  I'm 3 years into this almost to the day and my partner still denies he's bi or gay.  Right now as I type this there is a computer full of bisexual porn on his computer that he's left open.  I don't often check up on him but today I decided to do so several times and all day it's been a revolving door of straight/gay/bi porn.  Yet if I were to confront him right now he'd still deny it. 
And 3 years into this and yet it still stings like a bastard. 
Vicky

Thanks Vicky and Ongoingthoughts (OGT) for sharing. In reply to OGT's post: 

1. Thank you so much Sean. I think in my heart, I knew all those answers but it was nice to read it out and not think I'm crazy.

You're not crazy. You've just found yourself in a crazy situation. Please keep in mind that I'm not a mental health professional so I'd urge you to reach out for real-world support. This means creating your own thread here, discussing your situation with close friends/family, and perhaps by getting professional help. 

2. I still have so many questions and not much of an outlet. 

Ask away my friend. That's what this forum is for. 

3. Do you think there is a point that he will come out? When does it get too much to repress?

Most gay-in-denial husbands (GIDHs) never come out, simply because the consequences of being gay are too daunting. I came out to my wife the same day she challenged me about my gay porn and cheating, but I've learned this was an exception. Most GIDHs use the same excuses: 

- I'm not gay, just curious which is why I look at gay porn
- I'm not gay, I'm more bisexual, but still love you
- When his wife seriously considers separation/divorce, I'm gay because of ______ (sexual abuse, neglect, etc.)
- I'm gay and yes I chat on gay sex apps, but will never act on it
- Yes I've had sex with a guy, but it happened just once
- Yes I've had sex with a lot of men, but it didn't mean anything

The above represents the painful "trickle" discovery process in a gay/straight relationship. It's a bit like an iceberg really, the gay porn is just the visible tip of the iceberg a straight wife sees. Sadly, the remaining 8/9ths of his homosexuality (like cheating) remains underwater.  

4. There's a part of me that wants to help him during the process and tell him it's okay.  Is there a way I can help him come out or through all of this? Is it possible to still be friends after this? That's really what I want. 

That's a tough one. While I'm not a mental health professional, I'd read up on co-dependency my friend. I believe most GIDHs are narcissists and narcissists select kind/caring partners who are often co-dependents. These relationships are highly toxic, more so for the co-dependent. Again, I'd urge you to get therapy to work through all of this with a professional. With regards to helping him come out, that's a bit like a bartender trying to help an alcoholic client get sober. What I mean is gay/straight relationships are fundamentally unstable if not toxic, so no I don't believe you can play a meaningful part in his coming out process. But don't take my word for it. I'd reach out to long-term members (like Vicky or Ellexoh) for advice. From what I gather, most straight wives who choose to remain married to gay-in-denial husbands end up getting stuck in the muck of their husband's denial-related mental health issues. I firmly believe that both the gay and straight spouses start healing once they end their toxic relationships. He's (finally) forced to come out and deal with his homosexuality and she finds freedom away from his toxic narcissism.  

5. I'm not ready to let go just yet, especially since we have events in the upcoming months that we must go to. Is it bad for me to want to wait until those events are over to deal with everything? 

This is a journey my friend so take all the time you need. While it's easy for me and others to give you advice "from the other side" so to speak, I'm reminded that most of us took years to detach, separate, divorce, and heal. Following "discovery" that her husband is gay, I reckon it normally takes 2-3 years for a straight wife to eventually separate/divorce. So it is indeed a process.

6. Thank you again for everything!! At least I know I'm not crazy and the only one in this situation!

Thank YOU for sharing my friend. Please keep posting. For every straight wife like you posting, there are dozens quietly following your journey. Be well. 

Thanks for posting OGT. In reply: 

1. Thank you for being my outlet, since I can't talk to most people about this.

My pleasure. I'd encourage you to get professional help, talk to at least one close friend or family member, and continue sharing here. I see you've started your own thread which is a great start. I'd urge you to post here regularly for at least the next 60-90 days. 

2. It really hit home how you said that this is a journey and I can take all the time I need. I needed to hear that and it was good not to feel like I had to make a decision now.

Good. You're going to get a lot of forceful advice from the members here. Just keep in mind that everyone is sharing from their own personal experience. And many members have been through hell...and survived. You might feel defensive at times when members share strong opinions or blunt advice. I'd suggest leaning in to those hard feelings. I've been taken to task countless times here and, honestly, have grown the most when I'm challenged. 

3. Last night he was very drunk and I thought it was the perfect time to talk about everything going on and honestly (since he seems to tell me the truth when he's drunk). He told me about his porn preferences, which include straight porn. He said he doesn't look at guy on guy porn, he just likes their bodies and they do turn him on, but gay sex doesn't. He asked why it would matter if he was bi, since he's choosing to be with me.

He's lying and you both know that. That's a bit like saying you just like the icing and don't really want to eat the whole cake. He's scrambling and the drinking sounds like a coping mechanism. 

4. I know he would never cheat on me, especially since he grew up with this dad cheating on his mom and it had a big effect on him.

Given my experience, there is a very good chance he has indeed cheated on you. Telltale signs are: frequent business travel; a sudden interest in physical fitness/appearance; body shaving; new prescriptions to Viagra or Cialis; and gay dating/hook up apps on his devices. Yes it's possible that he hasn't cheated but I reckon 90% of the women who post here eventually found out their husbands had strayed. So I'd recommend you get tested for STDs. He'll also likely try to initiate sex with you to prove to himself he's straight. Use condoms. If he asks why, just tell him the truth: he might have cheated and you don't want to catch anything. 

5. I just don't know what to do. I feel like he has been honest with me...

He's lying. It's not because he's a bad person. It's just that he only knows how to lie about his sexuality. I've been there. 

6. ...however, I do know some things that he thinks I don't know.

Such as?

7. I also know that my view of him has changed. I'm a sucker for feelings and I can't stand to see him upset and trying so hard of us.

Please read up on co-dependency. Don't get too caught up in his feelings my friend. You should also focus on yourself. 

8. How do you know what's real anymore? How do I know if this is really what's going on in his brain?

I'm sorry you're struggling my friend. You're trying to apply logic and honesty to the least logical place on Earth: the gay-in-denial husband's (GIDH) swampy mind. I've often shared this example. Your husband doesn't know how to swim and is drowning in the deep end. Most (straight) wives dive in and try to help. You do this out of love for your husbands. Unfortunately, by getting in the water with him, he clamps on to you and you both start drowning. Most straight wives do this as follows: trying to get him to come out; trying to get him to share the truth; and eventually going to couples therapy. (We've all followed the same steps.) What you'll eventually learn how to do is detach with love. It's a bit like throwing a life ring into the pool so that he can save himself. And detaching with love means understanding that, while he's doing his best, the GIDH is often a pathological liar and manipulator. We gays often start hiding our true selves around age 5 or 6. The dishonesty and denial are hard-wired, to a point that most straight wives eventually separate/divorce to save themselves. I'm sorry if all of this alarms you, but this is likely the path you'll take my friend. 

So what's my point? While you'll inevitably focus on your husband, likely because you've been propping him up for most of your relationship, please don't forget to focus on yourself and your needs first. And that means: sharing here; getting friends/family involved; getting professional help; and getting tested for STDs. Good luck my friend! 

Last edited by Sean (February 16, 2019 9:50 am)

Thanks for writing Mimi. In response to your latest post: 

1. I’m back again and need your advice. I’m 3 months post discovery. We’re both seeing individual therapists and now a couples counselor which I feel that for the most part is focused on helping us communicate better. I’m not sure at this point if we need to focus on our communication skills really but I’m going along.

I'm glad you're getting solo counselling. Straight wives should follow your example and take care of themselves first which means individual counselling above all. With regards to couples counselling, I've often referred to it as akin to couples taking joint husband/wife swim lessons. Unfortunately, she (the straight wife) already knows how to swim and he (the gay-in-denial husband) doesn't. So during the lessons he starts drowning and then clamps on to his wife. They then both sink to the bottom. My point: couples therapy often serves only to blame the straight wife for everything he's done wrong (porn, cheating, gay chats etc). Using my swimming example, it's like you're both in the pool together. Clearly he has to learn to swim on his own and yet he spends every lesson blaming you because he can't swim. So what's my point? The straight wife doesn't make her husband gay. He was born a gay man and was gay before he met her. Unfortunately, the gay-in-denial husband often uses counselling to shift the blame his wife for his homosexuality. The most common lies are: she's distant; she's too cold; she's too sexually agressive; I was sexually abused; or (worse) she's gained a lot of weight. I recommend that each spouse do individual counselling for at least 90 days, before they attempt couples counselling. Put bluntly, he needs to learn how to emotionally tread water by himself before you get into the pool together. I hope that makes sense. 

2. My husband is in the honeymoon phase now trying to be the husband I always wanted him to be so that I can move on. Not husband really, but the best friend. We still have no sex because I can never see myself do[ing] that again.

This sounds a lot like detaching with love my friend.

3. I’m in a very frustrating state, stuck in this limbo phase. I think I’m mostly frustrated at myself for not making a decision. And now I honestly feel that since I haven’t left yet, he thinks that I’ve digested it all and moved on.

Understood. My "limbo" stage lasted for about 18 months. Others last for years or even decades. Every journey is unique so take all the time you need. Pehaps it's time to consult with a lawyer about separation/divorce. 

4. I want to feel that I’ve taken the right amount of time to think before pulling the plug on a 14 year marriage. but as time goes on, couples counseling and also my husband pulling me back to denial, is making me angry at myself.

I think you've made huge progress in just three short months so please don't be so hard on yourself. I'm not a mental health professional so I'd urge you to discuss this with your therapist, or perhaps with close friends/family. Few of us just walked away from our marriages so please take all the time you need. I myself was "in limbo" for about 18 months before deciding to separate/divorce. With regards to anger, I believe it's a necessary part and healthy of the healing process.  

5. Do you have any advice based on your experience on what to do in this phase? He goes to his individual therapy but of course won’t come out to me. Still says it was all a curiosity. (CL ads, hookup sites, porn...) What about couples counseling? Is it pointless?

I think you should continue to focus on yourself, your feelings, and whether this marriage makes you happy (or ever will). Many straight wives have waited years or even decades for honest answers from their gay-in-denial husbands (GIDH). The truth is some gay husbands are simply incapable of telling the truth. With regards to your situation, I think it's time to accept that he may never come out to you. Perhaps it's now time to start moving on. 

6. What should I bring up in the session to at least give it the right direction?

I think the better question is: do I want to remain in this relationship for the next 6 months, 1 year, 10 years, or even a lifetime? Your question (above) appears to focus on him and on couples therapy when I'd urge you to focus on yourself. Old habits die hard and I think that comes from a lifetime of propping up a severely damaged husband. As I shared in my last post to OGT (see above), I believe the GIDH's mind is like a black hole. (I know from experience.) Straight wives often lose themselves in their husband's darkness in the faint hope that things will improve...that he'll suddenly turn straight. To answer your question, I think you should continue speaking your truth during couples' therapy. "I think my husband is gay and I'm questioning whether to stay in a gay/straight relationship." And if you find couples therapy too uncomfortable, because he's blaming you for example, you can always stop. After all, this is your life. Maybe it's time to freely swim on your own, rather than spend the rest of your life treading water for two. 

I hope that helps my friend. Please keep coming back to share your journey. For every brave straight spouse like you sharing her story, I reckon there are dozens silently following. Be well! 

Last edited by Séan (February 17, 2019 3:06 am)

 Thanks for writing Mimi. I liked what you wrote: 

1. My therapist tells me not to focus much on his sexual orientation as you don’t know for a fact and he may never want to explore that with you.

100% agree. 

2. He says “focus on what you want from a marriage and if this is not it, then leave. Decide with facts and know that couples counseling won’t magically change people."

Also agree! 

3. What I’ve come to realize is that for the majority of our marriage I was always the flexible one, keeping him happy. There was always something that I had to work on and improve myself. As if I was never enough. And now I find myself there again, tying to fix this situation. Fix him. He is genuinely sorry now for what he has put me through in the past months, but the only promise he can make for future is that “I will never leave you for another man because I love you and want to spend my life with you.”  He says “it’s just fantasies and I’m not even bisexual I think.”​

You make some excellent points my friend. When I was in my 20s, I could have regular sex with my wife because I had the libido of a young man. However, sex became more infrequent as I aged, dropped off considerably after I started watching gay porn online, and stopped completely once I'd had sex with a man. Given what you shared, I believe my former wife silently shouldered most of this burden, wrongly thinking my lack of libido had something to do with her. With regards to your husband's promise to stay, I reckon he believes what he's saying. But it sounds like he's also offering some kind of sexless, emotionally draining, co-habitation. With regards to watching porn and gay chats somehow not being the same as wanting to have sex with another man, I call bullsh*t. 

I'll repost a more harmless example I post from time to time. Imagine if your husband has a fetish for chocolate cakes. He secretly watches cake baking videos on YouTube, is obsessed with the baking show "Nailed It", and exchanges texts/online messages with various bakers. When his wife challenges him about his baking obsession, he screams, "I never want to eat a chocolate cake, I just like looking at them! Why are you so obsessed with my obsession?" Well the whole thing is absurd of course. And it's the same with gay relationships/sex. No straight man would spend so much time watching gay porn, looking at pictures of naked men, and texting/chatting to arranged hook ups with men, unless he's as gay as a rainbow.    

4. I truly think that he is confused himself and he believes he can separate the two.

Yes and yes! 

5. Have his straight life with me but also live in his fantasy land online. But it’ll be a matter of time before sex is not sex anymore and he leaves me. Right?

If your relationship follows the pattern I've seen time and time again here, it goes something like this: 

- Wife always doubted her husband's sexuality
- Sex drops off and eventually stops
- First discovery (of gay porn and/or cheating) and first confrontation
- A honeymoon phase begins during which the couple doubles down on the relationship, often "For the kids"
- He claims to be "not totally straight" or perhaps "bisexual" and yet shows little sexual interest in her (outside of the Viagra-fueled "honeymoon" phases) 
- Couples therapy begins
- Second discovery (of gay porn and/or cheating) followed by a second confrontation
- Second honeymoon phase but now the straight spouse is seriously starting to consider separation/divorce
- He suggests spicing up the relationship through pegging, threesomes or perhaps cuckolding 
- Discovery/honeymoon/reconciliation repeats 3-5 times
- She takes steps to separate/divorce then he suddenly reveals sexual abuse (news to her) and that the abuse caused his "same sex attraction"
- The couple then works on the abuse issues
- They grow more distant, no longer have sex, and he starts almost openly having sex with men
- He believes one of his hook ups is "the one" and promptly dumps her
- His relationship is short-lived (3-9 months) and post-breakup, he tries to reconcile

This is the progression I've seen time and time again. It might or might not apply to your relationship Mimi, but I reckon it represents the common evolution of a gay/straight marriage. 

6. Also he’s slowly coming to realize that him being bi or gay was the source of many of our problems including our sexless marriage for the past few years.

I'm glad he's showing some self-awareness. But is it too late? 

7. You are so right about couples therapy.  It’s counterproductive because yes I wasn’t a perfect wife either and I can improve on some areas. But when the foundation of our relationship is the issue, what’s the point of talking about miscommunication and other secondary marital problems. It will only drown us both in more confusion.

Couples therapy is just another step in gay/straight relationships. We've all tried it. I like your use of the word "foundation" and the architectural metaphor. It's as if gay-in-denial husbands want to blame their wives for cracked windows or a leaky roof, but not the relationship's structural problem: he simply isn't attracted to women and never will be. Yes he could perhaps hide it when he was younger, but no longer. 

Thanks again for sharing Mimi. I learned a lot from this exchange. Take care of yourself my friend.