Happy New Year JK! I hope you and your kids are well. In response to your post/questions: 

1. Throughout your in-denial decades, how aware were you that you were gay?  

As I've shared in previous posts, I knew that I was attracted to men (or boys back then) around age 5 or 6. Based on everything I've read about the coming out process, and I've read A LOT, most gay boys know they're different around the same age. It was at age 5/6 that I declared my love for a camp lifeguard to my stupefied sister and her  best friend. Sadly, their over-the-top negative reactions ("That's gay!" and "That's bad") meant that I started denying my homosexuality mere minutes after my declaration. In response to your question, I've known that I was gay since age 5/6, but actively denied it until my early 40s when I finally came out to my (then) wife in a tearful kitchen table conversation.  

2. Were you ever able to convince yourself into thinking that you were not [gay]?

Not to myself no.  However, I pretended to be straight out of fear of rejection and ridicule. When I first started posting here, I was shocked that so many gay husbands denied their sexuality; often in the face of overwhelming evidence such as gay porn and cheating. When my (then) wife first confronted me about hooking up with a gay escort, at first I denied I was gay, but then came out to her a few hours later. To be honest, it was a huge relief to finally admit to my wife that I was gay. 

3. Was this something you thought about, daily?  

As an adult, yes. At first, I lived out my gay fantasies via daily porn use. But I could only watch gay porn for so long before acting on my true sexuality. Near the end, I was using both porn and hooking up with countless men. In my case, my mental breakdown stemmed from the gnawing fear of what would happen when I was eventually found out: namely divorce; ridicule; and isolation. 

4. I would think you'd be thinking about this, constantly.  How many times a day did you feel guilty for marrying your then-wife?  I would think this guilt would have been eating away at you, daily.  If so, why did you stay married?

The guilt came after my separation/divorce. While closeted (and married), I was such a toxic narcissist that I was completely incapable of acknowledging other's emotional suffering.  While closeted, I had one goal: hide my sexuality. This single goal blinded me and meant I saw nothing other than my own interest. Post separation, I do remember feeling overwhelming shame for lying to, manipulating, and cheating on my wife while also neglecting my kids. That's not love. As I've shared in previous posts,  I've always believed that while I can actively deny the truth to myself and others, for example through lying about my sexuality, my body/mind simply can't tread water forever. I reckon this is while closeted I was drowning in addictions (to porn & sex) while also suffering from depression, insomnia, anxiety, and paralysing migraines. In response to your question, I stayed married simply because I was unwilling to go through separation/divorce.        

5. I would think that you were constantly wondering who knew.  I would think that you were thinking about the mistake you made in marrying your wife, every single day, since the day you married.  I would think that you would have been in a constant state of guilt, knowing you had children in a marriage that should never have happened.

At first, I obsessed more about acting straight. While married, I don't believe I obsessed about who knew because being married to a woman was the most effective cover. Near the end of my marriage, I don't recall feeling guilt nor guilty, more shame about my porn and sex addictions. As for my children, I don't regret having children because I love them. I do regret putting them and their mother through the agony of separation/divorce.   

6. I'd be interested in your reflections, as well as thoughts you've heard from other gay men you may know who had been married to a woman, previously.  I would imagine there are patterns you have noticed, as you have spoken to other gay men, who were previously married to women. I'm curious what you would say, if you wrote a book from your perspective. 

Yes I believe there are similar patterns to gay/straight relationships, many of which I've discovered here. And the patterns are: 

- The gay/straight couple are more best friends than lovers
- From the start, the gay-in-denial husband (GIDH) has little to no interest in sex with his girlfriend/wife
- As they approach 40, the couple stops having sex 
- Discovery: the straight wife discovers gay porn, emails, texts, or proof of cheating
- Confrontation: there is an "are you gay?" confrontation
- Denial: he claims to be straight and that curiosity or sexual abuse caused his homosexual tendencies 
- Honeymoon: he acts like the ideal husband, hoping she'll forget about 'the gay thing'
- Reconciliation: the couple begins counselling and he blames his wife for their marital problems 
- The cycle (discovery, confrontation, denial, honeymoon, reconciliation) repeats 3-5 times
- The couple separates and eventually divorces

I hope I've answered your questions JK. If not, please feel free to write again. Be well! 

Sean I think you should know you're a gem to this site and I'm sure in so many aspects of your life! I don't always comment but please know that your help has been invaluable. 
 I wish more men had your strength, courage and the remorse to not only come out and end the wrong but take your valuable time to help women that went through the process of pain.
That pain works both ways. 

I check in when I can and try to comment some. Quick update on me:
I still see my GID through work and social circles. I've kept a heart and sexual distance because I still don't know the truth but have enough evidence to cause a purge of distance.
I remain a friend because it's the right thing to do...and I don't hate him..Actually at this point I don't really care. I feel sorry for him as I can see it's a struggle that he will never admit to anything and is fighting it. I've dated other men and there is such a difference between the way a straight man responds to another males from a gay one. He can't help it. Just as I can't help it when a hot man catches my eye. We react and steal as many glances as we can. Women? I only look to compare but not in a sexual way. 
It's as if he really wants to be straight. 
But playing Beard is NOT on my New Time Clock... lol
xoxo

Happy New Year

Thank you Scrupulous for your kind note. In response to your post: 

1. I still see my GID through work and social circles. I've kept a heart and sexual distance because I still don't know the truth but have enough evidence to cause a purge of distance.

Good for you: detaching with love. 

2. I remain a friend because it's the right thing to do...and I don't hate him. Actually at this point I don't really care. I feel sorry for him as I can see it's a struggle that he will never admit to anything and is fighting it.

Some gay-in-denial husbands (or ex-husbands) simply never come out of the closet. 

3. I've dated other men and there is such a difference between the way a straight man responds to another males from a gay one. He can't help it. Just as I can't help it when a hot man catches my eye. We react and steal as many glances as we can. Women? I only look to compare but not in a sexual way. 

Good points. 

4. It's as if he [ex-husband] really wants to be straight. But playing Beard is NOT on my New Time Clock... lol

I reckon some closeted men are emotionally straight and yet sexually gay. I married a woman because I wanted to be a straight husband/father, however my attraction to men was clearly as involuntary as my eye colour. 

In response to Lolita's post: 

1. Thanks again for your words of encouragement.  Today I shared my story with a good friend who told me that he suspected that [her husband was gay] long time ago.  He even tried to tell but I would not listen at this time.

I applaud you for saying "my husband is gay" to close friends or family. I think you'll find many friends/family knew your husband's secret (or at least suspected the same). What always strikes me about straight spouses finally saying, "I think my husband is gay" is how much this mirrors a gay man's coming out experience. Just like closeted gay men, the straight spouse has her own form of coming out. The more you say, "my husband is gay" the more you'll accept reality: straight men don't watch gay porn; straight men don't join gay hook up sites; and straight men don't have sex with other men. What he calls "curiosity" is in fact "gay."   

2. I realize that sharing my story is giving me more strength to go through this and I'm happy I have found people like you and other folks on this website.  

Great. I'd urge you to continue sharing your story with friends/family, by posting here, and with a therapist. Now is the time to focus 100% on yourself, your mental health, and your happiness. 

3. The road does not seems easy but I guess it will be easier and easier with time and one day I'll be ready to celebrate that I survived this.  Take care. Lolita

Bravo! I applaud your strength Lolita. Thanks again for sharing and please keep coming back. Be well my friend. 

Happy new year Leah. I hope that 2019 will bring you the answers, and perhaps closure, that you're looking for. Now in response to your post:

1. I find it very hard to say "my ex is gay" mainly because we had quite an active sex life.  

I can imagine. Most of the exchanges I've had with straight spouses are quite black & white: meaning that the couple no longer has sex. I've had a handful of exchanges with straight wives who discovered gay porn, cheating with men, and yet the couple still had an active sex life. 

2. He says his gay porn was curiosity, his gaydar account was just nasty talk, and that even if he is gay here - pointing to his body - he can't go there here - pointing to his head.  

While I'm not a mental health professional, "curious" appears to be the standard response when a straight wife confronts her husband with gay porn, gay chats, or proof of cheating with other men. As for this head/heart pointing, I reckon your ex-husband was emotionally straight and yet sexually not straight. 

3. He has remarried a woman and shunned me completely as I 'outed' him - told our sons, family and a few friends that he had been serially unfaithful with men (and a woman which is when I had had enough as I had thought he just had a SSA that he didn't act on!)  

SSA = same sex attraction. It's not uncommon for deeply closeted men to remarry women as a way to "prove" their heterosexuality. As for "shunning" you, I've long believed that many gay-in-denial husbands (GIDHs) are also narcissists. And narcissists often use the silent treatment (or shunning) to punish people like you who don't give them cover, adulation, or praise. Put bluntly, you had the courage to call him on his "bullsh*t" and in retaliation he cut off all contact with you. I reckon he's done you a favour my friend. 

4. So I guess my question is:  Are there truly bisexual men?  I know it is a hard one.  And as he was a repressed Mormon man, who technically can't be gay openly, is it more likely he is just staying closeted? 

I'm 100% gay with zero attraction to women so I'd recommend you learn more about bisexuality directly from bisexuals. You could perhaps contact your local LGBT centre or visit www.americaninstituteofbisexuality.org. I personally believe that sexuality exists on a spectrum, meaning some are gay, straight, and many in between. If your husband demonstrated a sexual attraction to you (his wife) and men, this would suggest he is indeed  bisexual. So yes the facts suggest he is bisexual because he is attracted to and has sex with both men and women. As for his religion, I'm not going to touch that one with a ten foot pole! If, however, his religion, his family, and friends are anti-gay because of shared religious beliefs, this would make it nearly impossible for him to come out without risking everything. 

5. I feel like I could heal more if he would admit to being actively gay.  

I'm sorry you're suffering my friend. I'm sure the suffering must be particularly acute during the holiday season. I think it's time to work towards accepting that you'll never hear, "I'm gay" or even "I'm bisexual" from your ex-husband. If he remarried, I believe this is called "foreclosure" meaning that he's trying to permanently shut the door on his bi/homosexuality. So you'll probably never hear an admission nor apology. You may feel the need to make contact or warn his new bride: don't. He's no longer your responsibility. 

6. I know he probably is, but it does pray on my mind still.  He is v v angry with me and so we have no contact after 27 years and three children.

He's angry because you disclosed his worst secret: "I have sex with men." 

7. He has moved on quickly and remarried a woman.  It seems almost to prove his story that it was just curiosity and experimentation.  

A quick "straight" remarriage happens from time to time, particularly with deeply closeted men in their 50s or 60s. I reckon it's the same as the "honeymoon" phase when, post discovery of gay porn or cheating, a GIDH is on a mission to have sex with his straight wife again, often after years of sexual neglect. In the face of overwhelming evidence of gay porn, gay chats, and infidelity, I believe these deeply disturbed and deeply closeted men are trying to prove how straight they are. 

8. Yet he admitted cottaging 25-28 times with men.... and an affair to check if he was gay with a woman.  Why can't I just accept he is lying?!  It drives me crazy at times.  

I'm very sorry you're still struggling with this my friend. I think the challenge for any straight spouse is to move on, without a final admission or apology from her gay or bisexual husband. Whether gay (like me) or straight (like you), closure comes from understanding there is only one person I can change: me. If I may be so bold, your use of terms like "same sex attraction / SSA" and "cottaging" suggest that you may still be holding on to some hope of reconciliation or perhaps of a kind of relationship with your ex-husband. At the end of the day, you divorced because your husband was f*cking men. Curious is when we try something once or twice, not when we cottage 20-30 times. And please keep in mind most people only admit to a small percentage of their wrongs, so he's likely had 50-100+ gay hookups. That's not mere curiosity my friend. 

So what now? I'd continue exploring why you need an admission from him, either via posting here or with a therapist, until you're over it. Tell your story over and over again, cry about it, mourn it, then bury it and move on. Your husband has chosen his closet over you, clearly with zero regrets. Now I reckon it's time you accept that you had no choice but to separate from a dishonest man who cheated on you. 

I hope that helps my friend. Keep coming back. 

Last edited by Séan (January 7, 2019 4:56 am)

Happy new year Lily. You've asked some interesting questions. In reply: 

"You describe yourself as 100% gay but what about when you were getting married and having children, for a period of time there you were only having sex with a woman. Doesn't that make you a bisexual?"

Perhaps. Although I'm currently in a relationship with a man and have zero attraction to women. As I've shared in previous posts, I first felt an attraction towards men around age 5 or 6. (I don't remember ever feeling a sexual attraction to women.) I first saw gay porn around age 18, ironically around the same time I'd had sex with a girl for the first time. Yes I had sex with my wife/girlfriend and even fathered children, but over the course of our 20+ year relationship, I probably only initiated sex with her maybe 2-3 times. While having sex, I always fantasized about men and wanted sex with her to end as quickly as possible. With the dawn of high-speed internet, I quickly became addicted to gay porn and increasingly used that as a sexual outlet from my early 30s until stopping with the porn about 5 years ago. (I haven't watched porn since because I no longer need it.) My first sexual experience with a man was at age 39 and, once I'd acted on my true sexuality, I could no longer have sex with my (then) wife. Am I bisexual? I don't think so. I've never sexually fantasized about women. I've never been physically attracted to women, although I can quickly develop an emotional, friend-like attachment to women. While I have indeed fathered 3 children, I was never sexually attracted to my (then) wife and really only had sex with her reluctantly. So no I don't believe I am, nor ever was, a bisexual. I'm not sure if that answered your question. If not, feel free to write again. 

Last edited by Sean (January 7, 2019 5:21 pm)