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August 26, 2016 11:56 pm  #1


Is this how female desire works?

I have been with my wife for 23 years.  As soon as she got pregnant with our first child (20 years ago) she lost all interest in sex (except for the subsequent attempts to get pregnant).  Back then she said she had no interest in sex.  As time passed, the reason became she was too busy with the kids and too tired.  "Sex is just another chore, why would I want another chore?" We had sex two or three times a year for a while, but all she ever did was lie motionless.

As our children got older and her duties as a stay at home mom lessened, she started listing my faults as reasons she did not want to have sex.  Over the past ten years I have worked to overcome these faults, but my efforts never changed her steadfast view that my faults were preventing her sexual desire.  And she always came up with new faults.  In my defense, these faults were never that I ignored or mistreated her or our children, I am an overly devoted husband and father.  My entire life is work and family (no friends, no golf, no drinking, no drugs, nothing but work and family).  We started having sex less than once/year.

I believe she started having a lesbian affair four years ago.  The evidence is all circumstantial (unlike so many of the gay men I've read about on this forum, it seems that lesbians might be more discrete), but there are a lots of little things that paint the picture of a lesbian affair.

Three years ago I told her I thought she was having a lesbian affair.  I presented my evidence and my feelings.  She was furious! She had no interest in my evidence.  She added my accusation to her reasons for no sex. We have not had sex since.

Over the past four years she has emotionally distanced herself from me.  It is to the point that she won't speak to me unless I speak first, and she hardly ever asks anything about my life (every day I ask about her life).  She has given up on chores, shopping, and cooking and I've taken up all the slack (we have one child still at home).  Now that I do all the chores and never ask for sex, she no longer voices any complaints.  As long as I don't ask for sex (which I haven't in three years), I think we could go on forever without her voicing a single complaint.  On the other hand, I am desperately lonely.

I told her that after 10 years of trying to change and failing to meet her other demands (the flowers and the gifts and my undivided attention was not enough) it is unlikely I will change much more.  Then I asked her if she would ever be sexually attracted to me.  "If you are not going to change I won't."

I could understand her not wanting sex with me if I was a drunk, or non-attentive, or did some other bad behavior but my transgressions all seem to be tangential (e.g. I have too many headaches, or I'm not happy enough (I once suggested that sex would make me happy, she replied that it would not be worth it)) or statements that she misinterprets without bringing them up.  For example, nine months ago I made a statement that was intended to compliment her work skills.  She interpreted it as criticism she does not make for money.  The most resent reason she is not attracted to me today is this misinterpreted statement from nine months ago.

Is this how female sexual desire works?  Are small transgressions tallied on a scorecard and only when years have passed without any transgressions the desire surfaces?

 

August 27, 2016 12:20 am  #2


Re: Is this how female desire works?

Absolutely not.  You have been treated horribly since the birth of your first child.  Your wife clearly no longer loves you and has not loved you for a very long time.  I am sorry to be so blunt, but you need to hear it.  No woman who cared for you would be so cold and honestly cruel.  It is true that sexual desire can wax and wain and is often low during those exhausting days with newborns and multiple young children.  But what you describe is abusive.  She wants you to provide helpful services (money, help with children, housework) but offers no affection or intimacy.  I feel quite strongly that you are being badly used.  You deserve so much more from her.  Whether her cold behaviour is a result of her being a lesbian or not is irrelevant.  You dont need a reason for her unloving behavior.  I hope you will seek individual counseling to explore why you would be willing to accept this treatment for so long.  You are worthy of human sexual interaction also known as love and intimacy.  I hope you will one day soon take steps towards finding a partner who can provide what you have been denied so long.  And just to be clear, cheating is never okay, so what I hope for you is either a magical ( and unlikely) transformation of your wife or a divorce.

 

August 27, 2016 1:47 am  #3


Re: Is this how female desire works?

Your relationship is obviously not a typical hetero relationship, so no, this is not how female sexuality looks. I will say this, most women, with normal female sex drives, need an emotional connection & trust before we'll engage in sex. If you are not helping around the house (regardless if she is a SAHM), you are not getting any sex. It then does become another chore. No respect, no compliments, no making her feel like she is still the sexiest beast you've ever met, you are not getting any sex. No spontaneous dates, surprises, cleaning the house, making dinner, you are not getting any sex. I'm not for a minute suggesting all the above has to be done daily or weekly, but definately more than once every 3 -10 years! There is a direct correlation to feeling loved & respected & giving back affection. But that's coming from a hetero woman. 

Your wife was scrounging for any excuse possible to shut the sex gate closed. She owed you an honest answer as to why she didn't feel like sharing herself intimately or emotionally, but instead took the coward's way out & blamed you all these years. 

I don't know if it's a female thing, or just me, but I shut down sexually more than a decade ago. After "fat" calling, zero compliments, zero dates (in 25 years he has orchestrated maybe 3 dates with me, touching my lady bits & kissing me like I had the plague, I decided that he didn't fucking deserve me intimately. Not that I don't like sex, I just felt like I was having a one nite stand with a stranger, i felt that disconnected & used. And screwing around was not an option for me. He swears he never cheated on me. I don't believe it. A man with sex addictions is hardly capable of being sex deprived for 7 years. 

So JFord, none of us here are examples of a "normal" sex life. Sad that we're all finding this out, after decades of wondering & settling. 

 

August 27, 2016 7:20 am  #4


Re: Is this how female desire works?

Jford,

I could have written a lot of what you wrote.  But until she had her affair I could still get my wife to have sex..she had no problem getting that from me.

Your wife is a narcissist.  As best she no longer loves you..at worst she's having an affair.
** sorry for being so terse and blunt ***

No spouse that loves the other would deny them not only sex but basic human affection and etiquette.  Its not normal. Its evil.  Its abuse.  Its not morally right.  A spouse isn't supposed to step on our basic human diginity..we have strangers and enemies for that.

So I read your post and I just wanted to say its not really or just about sex.  At a high level it's not even about gay or straight..if she is gay that just makes it more horrible and unrepairable.

I urge you to start distancing yourself also..you did nothing wrong..it's not you (they make us believe it is but it's absurd..)
Be kind to yourself and take steps each day for yourself..because she will not. 

She ended the marriage long ago from what you wrote.   You should let her go ignore and sex starve someone else.  I tried like you did for only a while and could not do it..one person cannot hold a marriage together. 

Move forward..always forward.

I offer you a sincere manly ehug (sincere and authentic..because I know what it's like to be denied even a basic human hug)

Last edited by Rob (August 27, 2016 7:21 am)


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

August 27, 2016 10:39 am  #5


Re: Is this how female desire works?

Jford-

Congratulations on your awakening and starting transition from victim to butterfly. Welcome to our forum.
 
My heart goes out to you. I had one like yours for almost 4 decades. When my son was out and away, I jumped off the Merry Go Round. 

As I understand your post, Your GID wife:

1. Cheats on you with women (just one? how many? guys too?)
2. Changes her reasons for denying you – Crazy Making ??  http://verbalabusejournals.com/about-abuse/crazymaking/  
3. After she beguiled you into marrying her and had anchor babies to keep you chained to her, has starved you of emotional and physical support (progressively destroys you) Maybe you’re getting this http://1solutionfocusedcoaching.com/2013/03/25/the-pyrotechnic-sexuality-of-the-narcissist/  ?
4. Blames you for everything (her actions, WHO SHE IS, etc).

You: 

1. Have til now accepted her alternative universe where you make all the mistakes (in my view commendable attempts to escape a calculating, selfish Vampire).
2. Try harder when she rubs your nose in her dirt.  Pick Me’ ?? http://www.chumplady.com/2012/04/the-humiliating-dance-of-pick-me/   
3. Are beginning to doubt her inversions of reality – (Wake Up and Reclaim your life??).  

This woman sounds a complete cad of a person with no qualities I consider loveable. 

Might you be emotionally tangled with this treacherous and cunning person in some way other than love? I suggest maybe a Trauma Bond, wherein she’s not your sweetie, but your Addiction? [see Betrayal Bonds by Carnes] also
https://www.firstwivesworld.com/index.php/my-narcissistic-ex-husband/item/8321-how-to-play-the-blame-game-and-win-big  
http://pro.psychcentral.com/recovery-expert/2015/10/what-is-trauma-bonding/  
http://www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Survivors/trauma_bonding.html  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRLmE71oW6s  

In my mind, you’re on track and should consider falling out of “love” with her (a non-lovable, non-reciprocating spouse), avoid ‘counseling’ and keep going, instead of letting her Hoover you back in. Its your life to live, not her’s to use. 

Reasons not to counsel with a narc:
1. Explains why NOT to do therapy with your GID spouse: http://www.co.washington.or.us/CommunityCorrections/VictimServices/Services/upload/12-Reasons-Why-Couples-DV.pdf  
2. A therapists prayer about narcissists: http://letmereach.com/2014/01/10/a-prayer-for-those-diagnosing-the-narcissist/  
3. “The Sociopath Next Door” book by Stout explains who you’ve been gamed by and spaths’ cold, reptilian world view. 

After 2+ decades of systematic abuse, you’re not strong enough to face this yourself.  Get help til you do.  Advice: 1) Assemble your professional lawyer, therapist, doctor team, 2) Get her out and away so you have space to grow 3) keep your sympathy and finances for yourself and 4) participate in this blog daily. 

You have a brilliant new life ahead just beyond your 1) understanding, 2) acceptance, and 3) hard work. 

Pray, exercise, rejoice, get the best lawyer, divorce ASAP, build a wiser life.

Best wishes for a fabulous future. 

Consider printing all this and other good posts as it’s a lot to get your head around.

- John

 

August 27, 2016 4:55 pm  #6


Re: Is this how female desire works?

I would wonder if perhaps she has an aversion to sex because of her personal history: abused sexually at some point and/or cultural and/or religious background which considers sex dirty and not something to be desired by women?

Over the years I would think that the possibility of counseling would have been raised by you and if it was rejected or didn't help it's too late now to suggest it because she does not want to change.

Is she having a lesbian affair? It could be emotionally if not physically. Whatever it going on she's obviously is not into you.

You can't change her but you can start thinking about how you want to spend the remainder of your life. There is life after divorce and it can be good.

 

August 27, 2016 10:20 pm  #7


Re: Is this how female desire works?

No, that's definitely not how female sexual desire works. We are unlike men in that sex starts with our mind, and so sometimes we have a difficult time disengaging from the bothersome stressors and demands of the day. You gentlemen learn this, and unless you are callous, you often try to relieve us from stress in order for us to engage more fully (or willingly) in intimacy.  Some women take advantage of this, abusing the opportunity to have life made perfect in exchange for sex. Part of this is because we can become accustomed to infrequent sex, and forget how wonderful of a balm it can be. It then becomes a chore (since we see it as work which benefits only you, having forgotten its value to us), which we will only exchange for work from you that benefits us. Sensing your desperation, we hold sex out like the priverbial donkey with the dangling carrot on a stick.  It seems to take some men years to figure out that the carrot is unobtainable. We will feed you one only often enough to keep your hopes of obtaining one more often alive.

It could be that your wife is just not interested in sex, for whatever reason. Maybe because of past abuse, or because she has asexual tendencies. Or maybe she just never learned to let go and enjoy it. Regardless, any decent non sex-loving woman understands that it's a need for her husband, and will do what it takes to leave him at least satisfied. Otherwise her marriage will suffer and she risks losing her man. But only if he's making her aware of this risk. Without the threat of what she stands to lose, she will do what she prefers to do. There is no reason not to.

It's possible that your wife is a lesbian. It depends on what you found that led you to question that in the first place. If you found evidence that she had desires for women but none for men (specifically you), then that's a reasonable conclusion to come to. But even if you never found an ounce of evidence that she has sexual desires, you are still left with your problem of no sex.  And it's completely reasonable of you to expect intimacy within your marriage. Intimacy is a basic human need. You should not have to beg for it within your marriage. It shows a lack of concern for you that you cannot regularly have it.

Kel


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

August 28, 2016 2:13 am  #8


Re: Is this how female desire works?

Thank you for your insightful comments.  You have given me sound advice and a lot to think about.

I have thought of leaving for many years.  I've been waiting for my children to grow up.  My youngest will be going to college next summer, so my wait is nearly over.  I am resolute that we will divorce by next summer; I want to minimize the impact of my daughter's senior year but I also want to minimize the impact on her first year of college.

The intent of my post was to bolster my self esteme and my hope for loving relationship in my future.  Your kind words and advice certainly help.

It has been a dozen years since we tried counseling.  During the last session the counselor suggested to my wife that we try to have sex every week.  My wife cheerfully agreed.  For a while we had sex three times/year, but that only lasted a few years.  I pushed for counseling over the years, but she refused because she didn't want someone to tell her she had to change when I was the real problem.

Four years ago I was certain my wife was having an affair (lots of sneaking around, emotional distance, and she radiated that glow of someone in a new romantic relationship).  Then I found a note in the car with a woman's names, address, date, and time.  I did some snooping and convinced myself this was a personal ad hookup (the name was a pseudonym for the person who lived at that address -- who uses pseudonyms?).  I was devastated and threw the note away.  The following year I brought it up.  I got two responses, "I can't remember everyone's house I went to last summer" and "If you don't have the note there is nothing to talk about."  And she was so angry.  If she had accused me of having a homosexual affair I would have laughed out loud, welcomed a discussion of her reasons, and spent time and energy trying to calm her fears.  My wife stormed out of the house swearing.

Since then there have been a several more clues: an earning I found in the kitchen after returning from a trip with my daughters that did not belong to my wife (my daughters don't were earrings), unusual food in the kitchen after returning from trips, 8 hours tennis games, 4 hour pedicures, etc.  I've told my evidence to two female friends (for my entire adult life, my closest friends have been women).  One thinks I'm insane and there is no way she is having an affair.  The other thinks half the evidence is enough and I'm being abused.

My nature is to accept all the blame for our failed marriage.  While I never criticized or insulted her, I was not good at spontanious dates or compliments (my compliments have always been met with a sigh of dispair indicating she doubted my sincerity).  She never liked the gifts I got her, so I channeled gift buying through our children--she would not criticize them.  But I've always done what she has asked me to do.

I am comforted by the thought that she is a lesbian because it explains the failure of our marriage without putting all the blame on me.  It is difficult to imagine anyone would ever want to be with me if I am as aweful as my wife thinks I am.  But as I've read from many on this board, I must move on with my life and be prepaired to never find the answer to that elusive question.

Thanks again for your help.

     Thread Starter
 

August 28, 2016 7:56 pm  #9


Re: Is this how female desire works?

Jford,

These spouses are sick.  I noticed, too late, that I was being criticized and blamed for everything.  Then came the distancing and discard.

But there is nothing you can do to make your wife gay...this you know.  A spouse doesn't become gay because your lousy at buying gifts.

Part of my ex wife's gayness I always felt was she liked the hurt it caused..she liked the finality and the breaking of taboos it caused...narcissist with a capital N.

Yours sounds like a gay narcissist.  Its a double punch..a 1000 nails in the coffin.  From everything I learned about narcissists the only thing you can do is flee them.  Same thing with a gay spouse.


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

August 28, 2016 8:59 pm  #10


Re: Is this how female desire works?

First of all only someone quite warped would treat you as if you have to bow to her with perfection as a spouse, never mind to bow to perfection to have sex. She is emotionally abusive. Trust your gut. It's more than mere friendship why you think she's having an affair. No one deserves to be starved fr sex in a marriage and then blamed for it on top of that. We get it. We here in this forum have experienced it too. Most of us have also learned that a person can be too loving, understanding, and kind to an abusive spouse because of love towRds them. We enable them to continue on as we scurry around perplexed but still trying to please that prrson. Agsin, trust your gut. Also, many men hide their same sex love interests too.

 

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