Straight Spouse Network Open Forum

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

September 18, 2018 9:02 am  #21

Re: Thank You to the “old timers” AND How do you do it?

To OoHC,

Thank you, 


September 18, 2018 9:52 am  #22

Re: Thank You to the “old timers” AND How do you do it?

Thanks, Lynne; I appreciate it.


September 18, 2018 10:19 am  #23

Re: Thank You to the “old timers” AND How do you do it?


I can't say that I disagree with you.  I do feel that wanting to be something that you are not and cannot be is a form of mental illness, and should be treated as such.  We DO treat it as such in every other instance except for sexual identity.  You could even believe something slightly warped, and you've be viewed as at least mentally "off".  Think of an overweight, middle-aged male, thinking (despite his age and lack of abilities) that he was on a path to become a professional athlete or the typical type (baseball, football, etc.)  It would be evident at some point that he wasn't facing reality successfully, and he would be talked to about it by those around him that love and care for his well-being.  Even though we live in an "everything is possible" world where he might magically attain his goals and become the subject of a Lifetime movie.  He COULD become this pro athlete, but the reality of the situation tells us that he cannot do so at this point of his life with his current limitations and abilities.  He would need help, and he would be encouraged to get it.  The only way he'd be encouraged to try for such a lofty goal is to show him that it's unreasonable and unattainable.  If him thinking he could start becoming a professional athlete is unreasonable, then why is transitioning from one sex to the other reasonable?  It just doesn't make sense to me.

I've done a lot of thinking in recent years about transitioning, because I see it here on the board, and I've watched TV shows about it.  And my bottom line is that there is no amount of nail polish, high heels, jewelry, hair/makeup or dresses that make a woman a woman.  You can't put these things on and become a female any more than you can live in a garage and become a car.  Neither can you change your genitalia and be considered a woman.  They are parts - it's like putting Porche parts on your Hugo - it doesn't become a Porche because of a few parts.  It's still a Hugo with Porche parts.  It gets a bit confusing for me when you see shows like "I am Jazz", where the individual transitions very young (in that show, the child starts transitioning in pre-school), and therefore goes through a lot of the experiences of a female while growing up, complete with hormones and developing breasts and female experiences.  It's still not the same, but it's about as close as you can get without it having been "assigned" at birth.  That situation is more perplexing for me to determine.  But the mid-life transitioning stuff?  Yeah, NO.


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.

September 18, 2018 10:33 am  #24

Re: Thank You to the “old timers” AND How do you do it?

Written with your characteristic clarity and candor, Kel.
 Jazz Jenning has to have a faux vagina surgically constructed, one that the body will treat as a wound, and which will need daily dilating to maintain.  And the only thing that vagina will ever be used for, if it ever is, is as a sheath for a penis.  Jazz will never have a period, never be able to try for or have a child--all that hormone treatment has rendered the child sterile--and has lived such a public life as a trans child that I can't see Jazz as ever living anything like the life of a woman like you and me.  Jazz is trans.  
  The studies tell us that the vast majority of gender nonconforming children grow up to resolve to their original birth sex (and a percentage of these children are gay/lesbian).  Maybe Jazz would have.  Maybe not.  We'll never know.  I only know that Jazz will only and forever be a trans person, not a girl, not a woman.  


September 18, 2018 12:32 pm  #25

Re: Thank You to the “old timers” AND How do you do it?

OOHC, I always love reading your posts. I love the passion and clarity with which you write and share your thoughts. That is not necessarily my strong suit, so I please ask you to indulge me while I try to explain my thoughts.

First of all, I don't disagree with you. My spouse will never know what it means to really be a woman. The clothes, the make-up, the long hair, the hormones, the surgeries, etc. None of it will give my spouse the same experience I have had as a woman. (Oh, and I even heard it referred to "gender corrective surgery" recently. Seriously?!?) And any blood test will always and forever, identify my spouse as a male. 

Nor do I want to welcome these trans women into women-only safe spaces. I am appalled at the way many have bullied their way to the front of the women's movement and have tried (and unfortunately having some success) to put trans issues at the forefront of the feminist movement. I am even more appalled at the treatment of, namely the encouragement of violence against, women who don't buy into the "trans women are real women" way of thinking. 

That said, in the name of compromise, I am willing to call a male who wishes to live, as best he can, as a woman a trans woman. To me, that signifies someone who is presenting as a woman but was not born a woman, and presenting as a woman does not make them a woman.

In your post, you ask a great question....... "But what would the result have been if he'd at 10, when he felt the first inklings of sexual excitement during his first early experience of cross dressing, when he first put his mother's slip on, he'd been set on the path to a public manifestation of this desire, been encouraged to define his entire life by it?"  You then answer it so beautifully, but you only mention what it would have meant for him. My question is what would the result have been for you? In my particular situation, I think my spouse would be pretty much where he is now. His path there would have been different, but I think his ending up there was inevitable. My story, however, would have probably been much different. I would not have married my husband had I know that there was a possibility that one day he would become my wife. I'm not saying I would have found my Prince Charming and lived happily ever after, but maybe I wouldn't be sitting here some 25 years later feeling like I had been used and discarded like some piece of trash. Maybe my spouse's first wife would have also been spared some pain. Or who knows.... maybe I would have found my Prince Charming. [img][/img] 

Anyway, when I say I am an ally, that may not be completely correct. Perhaps I am a false ally. (And I am speaking about the trans community only here - not the LGB community.) I really don't care if things are easier for them or not. However, I firmly believe that making TTT easier and more acceptable is the best way to not bring any more women into our fold. At the same time, I want to tell women that they don't have to stay in these marriages. That leaving doesn't make them bad or uncaring people. That it won't get better and they need to protect themselves - physically, emotionally, financially, etc. I can and do share my story privately, but feel I cannot share it publicly until after my divorce. So, until then, I do what I feel I can by posting on boards like this and trying to help women avoid these relationships to begin with.

Again, OOHC, I don't disagree with you. I don't believe that my spouse, despite having multiple surgeries, will ever know what it really means to be a woman, and how can he say he is a woman if he doesn't know what that means and/or feels like.  I'm also not saying that we should play into any delusions. I just think that maybe we could do away with a lot of gender labels for clothing, toys, professions, etc. If we could, then maybe, just maybe, some future spouses would not have to go through what we went did - and still are. 

And I know it isn't a perfect solution - far from it. But I also know that if I had known about this - if my spouse would have felt free to share this side of himself - I wouldn't be sitting here 25 years later feeling like I have been used and deceived. I wouldn't be sitting here in my mid-50s trying to start over after my spouse spent a good portion of our money chasing his futile dream of becoming a woman, and I wouldn't feel this deep and profound sense of betrayal that I just can't seem to shake.

Anyway, that's all. I could go on, but I would just be rambling and talking in circles.

I wish us all much peace and strength.

Last edited by StrongerThanIKnew (September 18, 2018 12:35 pm)


September 18, 2018 12:50 pm  #26

Re: Thank You to the “old timers” AND How do you do it?


Can we talk more about your disagreement with the SSN statements?  I'd like to learn more about your point of view and bring it up in a future board meeting for discussion.  

I'll PM you

-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 


September 18, 2018 1:29 pm  #27

Re: Thank You to the “old timers” AND How do you do it?

I can’t say any of it any better than has already been said. To tag trans on to LGB to me is bizarre when we are talking about a mental disorder for the former. To be honest I’m finally getting to the point where I don’t want to think about it anymore, I just want anything autogynephillic or anyone who defines femininity by purely female clothes and mannerisms and gets sexually excited by themselves in any of those situations to just stay away from me and my mind. It is just too much for a sane, straight woman to reason with amidst love bombing and lies. Show me a “trans woman” who’s primary reason for “femininity” isn’t so that they can get off and maybe I’d rethink but if they want to be a woman so they can have weird sex with themselves and a mirror or a camera I really am not interested in any level of support for them.


September 19, 2018 3:52 pm  #28

Re: Thank You to the “old timers” AND How do you do it?

phoenix wrote:

Can we talk more about your disagreement with the SSN statements?  I'd like to learn more about your point of view and bring it up in a future board meeting for discussion.  


I'm curious about this, too.

I've always had some degree of skepticism about people who believe, rightly or wrongly, that they can transition from one gender to another.  But, ultimately I think the thing I care most about is that nobody should be getting hurt.  We have enough "straight spouses" in shock over this issue; if a single twentysomething wants to transition I can't see that anybody is harmed by this.

If my accepting trans as a legitimate identity will prevent future straight spouses from suffering what we've all gone through, I'm for it.


November 25, 2018 10:06 am  #29

Re: Thank You to the “old timers” AND How do you do it?

Walkbymyself I am new here and saw your post and it resonated with me. I am beginning the divorce process from my husband of 33 years who just revealed he is gay. I am so scared financially also. Just wondering if you have any advice on that topic? Thank you


Board footera


Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum