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August 28, 2018 11:59 am  #1


Legal Question

I am a straight spouse currently in the process of a divorce initiated by my mtf spouse who is progressing with transition.  We were together for over 25 years and the divorce took me by surprise.

In the divorce settlement it is being requested I sign a Non Disclosure Agreement with respect to our lives together.  They are threatening to seriously disrupt maintenance if I don't agree to sign.

Does anyone have experience with this?

On a personal level I felt I kept this secret for so many years and relate to many of the experiences discussed here.  I feel I should now have control over my life now that we will not be together.  Possibly to share my experiences with others.

Any feedback is appreciated. 

 

August 28, 2018 12:58 pm  #2


Re: Legal Question

Hi constructive!

Welcome to our group.  Sorry you are going through divorce and all the stress that comes along with it.  I hope it's the start to a new and wonderful life. 

Do you have a lawyer?  If so, this is certainly a question that you should review with your attorney.  If you have already, and you are just looking for 2nd opinions, then hopefully we can help.  I do know that at least one of our members is an attorney, but I'm not sure what extent she is able to help. 

I am definitely not an attorney, so take my thoughts as simply slightly educated guesses. 
I don't think alimony/separation maintenance can be associated with or require an NDA.  It seems like a judge would strike that down with a quickness.  Unless perhaps your ex has agreed to go far above and beyond what the court would consider "fair" and is giving you the extra in exchange for your promise of secrecy.  But that doesn't seem to be the case here. 

One of my biggest platforms is that straight spouses should never be forced to remain in the closet.  Most of the SSN board and our founder and most of the members of this forum all feel passionately about this topic.  We are marginalized and forgotten about by society enough as it is.  We should always have a chance to speak out on our own behalf and tell our truth.  

You absolutely should have control over your life and you can tell the truth of your story to whomever you wish.  

Hopefully you get lots of help here with this question.  I'm sure it will spark a great dialogue. 


-Formerly "Lostdad" - I now embrace the username "phoenix" because my former life ended in flames, but my new life will be spectacular. 

 
 

August 28, 2018 2:42 pm  #3


Re: Legal Question

  I am divorcing a man who remains in the closet about his belief he is trans (he remains male in his public life, and indulges his desire to act as if he were a woman at home).  He has in the past said that if I speak the truth of my life and why I am divorcing him I will be "outing" him.  To me "outing" is something done vindictively, in order to expose him to prejudice and harm; I would not ever and have not done that.  He seems to think his desire to remain in the closet requires my silence; my response is that his reality does not trump my right to tell the truth about my life, and he does not have the right to dictate what I say about my own life.

 I suspect your stbx's NDA has to do with the phenemenon of "dead naming" so prevalent in the trans community.  He wants to draw a line between his past as a male and his future as a transwoman, and to dissociate himself from his past, to live as if he were Trans-Athena sprung from the head of Zeus, with no history.  It's a Soviet-level rewriting of history, and I call bullshit on it.  His life as a man happened; it was his life, and your life with your male husband was your life.  He should not have the right to erase your past and to force you to act as if it never happened, all so he can proceed on his merry trans way pretending he was always a woman.  

 Personally, I think it is extremely important for our healing to speak the truth of our lives, and he should not legally be allowed to bind you to silence about your own life.  I'd work with your attorney on this.  It's to be hoped that the trans lobby has not gotten so far in legal circles as to have this be acceptable. 

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (August 28, 2018 2:44 pm)

 

August 28, 2018 2:43 pm  #4


Re: Legal Question

constructive changes wrote:

I am a straight spouse currently in the process of a divorce initiated by my mtf spouse who is progressing with transition.  We were together for over 25 years and the divorce took me by surprise.....In the divorce settlement it is being requested I sign a Non Disclosure Agreement with respect to our lives together. . 

 

I'm not clear on what the consequences and ramifications of a NDA would be in your country but.....signing it sounds like the truth of your r'ship would be forever buried, and you would be a forever-silenced partner....ex-partner ...in something that wasn't of your making, just so he/she/whatever can be guilt-free?

Fuck him/her/whatever. Don't sign it. There must be another avenue to go down!
 

Last edited by Ellexoh_nz (August 28, 2018 2:44 pm)


KIA KAHA                       
 

August 28, 2018 6:51 pm  #5


Re: Legal Question

I think the only reason to even consider agreeing to silence is if it results in a generous and swift settlement. This is your personal history your spouse is trying to erase so you get the final say about it. I hope you already have legal advice, if not I think you should in order to protect your interests.

Last edited by Daryl (August 28, 2018 6:54 pm)


“The future is unwritten.”
― Joe Strummer
 

August 28, 2018 8:58 pm  #6


Re: Legal Question

Hi Constructive, I guess I am a little confused. You say your spouse is progressing with transition. Does that mean socially and medically? If so, the secret is out or at least will be soon, so protecting his closet isn't an issue. Is it the "dead naming" issue that OOHC mentioned? My STBX, also MTF, hasn't asked for any such agreement now that transition is complete. However, I have often told friends that she got everything she wanted and still doesn't seem happy, so she is trying to get rid of everything she no longer wants - like me. I know she was even trying to get her birth certificate reissued to reflect her new name/gender, so that is definitely all a part of what OOHC addressed. Still don't know how to explain away the male DNA and the kids she helped produce as a male, but okay.

Anyway, I personally feel many of these relationships are traumatic and abusive. To take your voice is just another form of that abuse.

Please speak with an attorney, and not just about this. Don't take your spouse's word about what and how much you are entitled to. 

Also, please don't answer the questions I posed - at least not publicly - just in case a NDA would be in your best interest (although I don't necessarily see how).

Stay strong.

 

August 29, 2018 2:42 pm  #7


Re: Legal Question

Hi Constructive,

I'm an attorney, but I don't specialize in divorce law.  But I do know this: if you do not have a lawyer right now, please get one.  Going into a divorce settlement without good representation is all very well and good when you have two people in essential agreement, and nobody's trying to extort anything from anybody else.  It's entirely inappropriate if someone's trying to exploit your financial vulnerability in order to compromise your ability to function at a minimally honest level going forward.

I don't know your situation or the legal nuances of your jurisdiction, but I would not sign an NDA.  I would not sign it, I would not discuss it, and I would not even remain in the room as long as it was being brought into the discussion.  I would very strongly make the point that you are NOT Donald Trump's porn star mistress, that you do NOT have the ability to melt into an anonymous crowd after the divorce is final, that this was a marriage, not a one-night fling you could be expected to slink away from and never speak of again.  

He has every right to ask you to be discrete or sensitive about his secret.  And if he really needs your discretion that badly, he should make damn sure every waking breathing moment that he is treating you as well as any human possibly could treat another human.  Putting the onus on you, in a contract, and threatening to hold up your spousal support is not acceptable.

Spousal support is your lifeline, which you have earned over the course of however long your marriage was.  It is not charity.  It is not freeloading.  If he wants to pay you tens of thousands of dollars in a separate payment, as part of a separate agreement, for nondisclosure ... fine, figure out how much it's worth and cut a deal with him.  But that agreement would absolutely have to be completely unrelated to your support payments.  The support payments should be absolutely paid, no matter what.


Relinquere fraudator, vitam lucrari.
 

August 29, 2018 3:07 pm  #8


Re: Legal Question

Constructive, I'm sorry for the serial posting, but I just got really angry on your behalf.

After 25 years of marriage, your maintenance payments are life-and-death to you.  Under absolutely no circumstance is it acceptable for anyone to use your vulnerability against you like this.  The only thing that should appropriately result in a reduction of your maintenance payments would either be that you have won the lottery and no longer need the support, or your ex has suffered an extreme financial setback not of his own making that convince a judge he should be allowed to reduce your support payments.

If he wants to negotiate a separate NDA (and again, I wouldn't sign, but that's just me), as long as your maintenance payments are not part of the enforcement within that contract, that's up to you.  But I'd be clear about this much: your divorce settlement is intended to reflect only the division of assets and financial support obligations going forward, and not who was at fault during the past.  So past behavior has been reasonably excluded from consideration, in working out his payment obligation.  Fair is fair.  If his past behavior has no bearing on how much he pays, neither should your future behavior be a factor in reducing that obligation. 


Relinquere fraudator, vitam lucrari.
 

August 29, 2018 7:49 pm  #9


Re: Legal Question

Thank you all for responses.  I do have a lawyer. He is advocating I accept nda due to financial offers.   Literally I am not allowed to discuss any element of my life as it may impact spouses ability to earn. Which is ridiculous as has been in transition mode.  Hormones. Laser.  Clothing etc.  We live in nyc.  People have made observations.  Both of us have expensive nyc lawyers. Court is aware of tg issues. The nuances are frustrating as my lawyer has known about my concerns since this began and I’m now being pressured to sign off quickly.  It is literally a financial vs feeling ownership of my life conundrum.

Thanks for listening

     Thread Starter
 

August 29, 2018 7:59 pm  #10


Re: Legal Question

I read the talk of a NDA with curiousity.
It sounds like narcisstic entitlement to me.  These spouses are not God or Dr Who..they cannot rewrite the past or make like it never happened.  It is all in their head and telling us to be silent does not make what is in their head true..


"For we walk by faith, not by sight .."  2Corinthians 5:7
 

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