Thanks for posting Lily. I like the term sock puppet to describe gay-in-denial husbands. I was recently chatting with a paramedic who said the hardest part of his job was telling people that their husbands/wives have died. When I asked him if there is a pattern, he said yes: denial ("He was just drinking his tea"); bargain ("When will you take him to the hospital for treatment?"); fear ("Can't you revive him?"); anger ("How could this happen?"); and finally tears of acceptance. I was struck by how much this mirrored the death of my own marriage.

If you're new to this thread, I came out to my (then) wife back in May 2012. We limped along together then separated in December 2014. What struck me about the above conversation was how much it resembled the end of my relationship...my straight existence really. Even after coming out, I claimed that I "loved" my wife. I clung to my sinking ship of a relationship "for the kids" when truly I was scared to come completely out, live as a gay man, and potentially be alone. So what's my point? Looking back, I now understand how deeply I was in denial about my relationship. I was a gay man, was born gay, and chose to marry a woman as cover. While I could convince myself that I loved her and even told others the same, love isn't going into a relationship based on a lie. And that lie was that I was a straight man. I should add that I'm not bisexual. I'm 100% attracted to men only. I have zero sexual nor emotional attraction to women.

So what's my point? Most of the clashes I've read about here are between long-term members (myself included) trying to shake new members out of their denial. Not unlike my paramedic friend speaking to a newly widowed wife who can't accept that her husband just died, I'm slowly starting to understand that this is a process - for both the gay and straight spouses. Whether they accept it or not, 90% of gay/straight marriages fail. Mine did, but only after we tried everything to stay together. This forum exisists to help straight spouses go through the grieving process at her own pace. It may take weeks, months, years or even decades. But like my paramedic friend, I'm always struck by how similar the process is. And it sounds like:

Post disclosure: "Is my husband gay? He denies it and I'm not sure. But there is all this porn and chat history."
Stage 1: "I told him I would NEVER be in an open relationship. He's trying really hard and we had sex (kind of)."
Stage 2: "The honeymoon is clearly over! And he's really angry at me when he's in the wrong here. I'm confused."
Stage 3: "I caught him cheating and on gay porn...again!"    
Stage 4: "I'm p*ssed. I can't believe I spent so many years with this *sshole!" 
Stage 5: "That's it. He's gay and there is nothing I can do to change it. I'm getting a lawyer." 
Stage 6: Separation
Stage 7: Divorce 
Stage 8: More anger. 
Stage 9: Healing begins. 
Stage 10: She can't believe how long she spent with a gay man and that she even denied he was gay. 

This is of course an oversimplification of the process so I'd like your input friends. But it's my take on what happened in my own relationship, denial, bargaining, sadness/anger, and finally acceptance. I hope that helps friends. Be well!   

Last edited by Sean (July 2, 2018 10:32 am)

Thank you for sharing Violated. How goes your separation my friend? I think it's an excellent idea to get counselling from someone who has experience with straight spouses. Good for you. Now in response to your post: 

1. Sean, the worst part of this process for me is that my GIDH refuses to admit he is gay. He now claims he was a "victim" of a forced sexual encounter with 4 men, where he claims he was unable to leave and was held down and sodomized. And now he claims that forced encounter was how he contracted hepatitis B. I have to use my rational mind. At times, I want to believe his stories so badly. But seriously now he is a "victim," of a rape 12 years ago, and because of his "guilt" he couldn't have sex with me for the past 10 years. I am suppose to believe this story?

I'm not a mental health professional so please gage my opinions accordingly, but this seems to fit a common pattern in gay/straight relationships. Just when the straight wife is about to leave, one of the final "Hail Mary" passes a gay-in-denial husband (GIDH) tries to make appears to be a claim (or claims) of sexual abuse. This seems to serve two purposes: first, it makes him seem blameless for being gay similar to "well the porn made me do it"; and second, I reckon it's an attempt to cast himself as the victim so his wife tries yet again to save him. I've written extensively about this issue in previous posts. I personally believe that a pathological liar (most GIDH) will say anything to stay married and in the closet, so straight wives are right to be skeptical about claims of sexual abuse. I've written about that before: 

Gay in denial husband cries "I was abused": http://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=11686#p11686
Determining whether or not it's true: http://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=11695#p11695
Exchange with a Straight Spouse who disagreed with me: http://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=13221#p13221 

2. If someone was raped by 4 men, would the "victim," continue to look at gay porn and use anal dildos? I have begged him to tell me the TRUTH, but he just continues to lie and lie. And when I tell him of how much pain I am in.......and that he needs to understand my pain.......he focuses on himself again, his pain, and him being a "victim," and that he was "traumatized." I don't know why I need to hear the truth so badly....I think in some way the truth will help me heal.

There eventually comes a point when the straight spouse no longer looks to her GIDH for answers. There comes a point when every straight spouse has to stop focusing on fixing him and she starts focusing on herself. 

3. I have made contact with a counselor who specializes in counseling straight wives. I am praying for courage, for strength. How can I still love this man after this kind of betrayal?

As I shared in my previous posts, finding out your husband is gay is almost like coping with a death in the family. So straight wives need to take time to fully mourn the end of their relationships. And I think this includes detaching from him with love.  

4. Sean, I wish more GIDHs were like you, tell the truth and admit they are gay. TRUTH, all I want is the truth. He now even tells me if I leave him, he will date women........What a mind f--k game. I am trying to hold onto my sanity.

I'm no saint Violated. For a few hours, I tried to lie and evade my way of out my (then) wife's question, "Are you gay?" But the same day I admitted it. I think it was the first time in my life that I stopped lying to myself as well. I reckon that's why coming out is so traumatic. By coming out to others, particularly our wives & mothers in my case, we are forced to come out to ourselves.   

Straight men don't watch gay porn. Most straight men don't collect dildos. And few straight men just randomly catch Hepatitis. Gay men like gay porn, like anal sex, and if they have unprotected sex with other men they catch Hepatitis (or worse). I hope therapy helps you find more clarity and peace my friend. Be well! 

Violated:  it’s entirely possible that your husband actually could have been attacked as he described. If he were cruising gay bars or bathhouses there are people who prey on closeted men. It wouldn’t alter his orientation, as he seems to be claiming, but it could have happened.

But I agree with Sean, there’s nothing to be gained by trying to debate him.

I hear you.  

Sean: somewhere upthread you'd posted that most mixed-orientation marriages ultimately fail.  I want to thank you for posting that (and I realize it's probably a guesstimate, not an actual statistic).  I have had a dozen different people now advise me that I should file for divorce, and I've recognized that it's what I want to do, but haven't found courage yet.  But somehow hearing your off-hand observation clicked, not because of what it says about the marriages that fail ... but what it says about the small number that don't.

It seems to me these marriages don't thrive.  They're endured.  They're tolerated.  Nobody is overjoyed to be in these marriages.

Thanks for speaking with words that finally penetrated.

Walkby said, "..these marriages don't thrive.  They're endured.  They're tolerated."

    That is what I also concluded about being married to a man who decided he's transgendered, after I visited numerous sites and read the comments from the wives who were trying to convince themselves that they could stay, as well as from reading the stories posted here by wives who to a woman told tales of their spouses' incredible selfishness, the shifting of boundaries and the ever escalating behaviors.  
      I had to confront the question of whether or not I could live with myself if I stayed, knowing that I was consciously deciding to settle for a kind of half life in a marriage in which we would essentially lead parallel lives with an occasional point of intersection rather than a truly intertwined life. 
    I decided I could not do that, although I was helped along in my decision to leave by my stbx's self-serving heartlessness toward me and the position he had put me in.  I actually now shudder to think that had he been willing to meet me even a third of the way I might have continued to delude myself for even more years that we might be able to work things out in a mutually satisfactory way and that someday, maybe someday, we could find the happiness I'd always wanted to find with him. 
    Every day I stayed in that marriage after disclosure added to the trauma that now has to be processed and somehow overcome.

BTW, walkby, I do think "three years" is a statistic not just a guesstimate.  I seem to recall that someone here (Sam, maybe?) posted a link to the study.  I made it just under three years from disclosure to moving out.

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (July 7, 2018 2:33 pm)