Thank you everyone for sharing. If you're new to this thread, we were discussing a recent post. Here is the post link: http://straightspouse.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=14837#p14837. In brief I wrote about how similar gay-in-denial husbands and gay/straight relationships are. In response to your comments: 

Lily wrote: "It [divorce] has been over 4 years now. He is in the closet, he poked his nose out for two weeks - he told me he was bisexual, that meant he was special, it meant he had a choice, and it was none of my business.  and when I kept on saying whatever it was bisexual wasn't straight and he should have told me he changed his mind, told me he was 100% straight and I would be considered deranged if I thought different. That is not an idle threat.  It is amazing the way people believe him and think he is such a nice man.  It is an enduring relief to be divorced. He loves his closet, maintaining his closet is his prime motivation - when I said he poked his nose out, not really, he was simply attempting to maintain it by retaining the marriage. He hated me for the financial hit of divorce but that's nothing to how he responded when I spoke openly about him being gay after we had separated.  He likes to charm any women who are friends or associates with me and then turn them against me.  Highly successful at it, the fact that it is to their detriment too is a bonus for him, he doesn't actually like them. I have finally realised how he has been playing these sorts of games all along and no wonder I was hurting so much and it's all him.  I've stopped blaming myself for feeling bad.  It doesn't matter what you do, if someone wants to hurt you it hurts." 

Wow. He sounds like a monster Lily. I don't know why but I always thought you'd separated/divorced earlier. I didn't realize it had been just four years. Your point about him turning friends and associates against you sounds familiar. I've read heart-breaking posts of straight wives who were shunned and punished for daring to even mention their husbands were gay. Sadly, many of these people who shun and punish are his family & friends. I'm now starting to believe that having a gay-in-denial husband warps reality. The denial is so deep and systemic, pre-dating even the straight wife's arrival, that any spouse who tries to pierce through that denial often gets clapped down...or even slapped around, by her husband and his allies. Thanks for posting Lily. I've learned something.

Kathyd wrote: "Just like LIly's GIDX, mine was very good at schmoozing the ladies and had lots of women "friends" at work.  They all thought he was so handsome, so nice and couldn't possibly be gay.   If they only knew.  A sock puppet as well."   

Thanks for sharing Kathyd. In my experience, women generally "let their hair down" with gay men. For example, when I tell female clients that I'm gay, in short order they often tell me EVERYTHING about themselves. This phenomenon is something I've discussed many times with my boyfriend and gay friends. So I can easily see a gay-in-denial husband using these skills to turn friends and family against his straight spouse, particularly when she's about to reveal he's gay. 

Greyhoundgal wrote: "I don't fit those categories Sean, with the exception of "your intuition onwards" which pretty much describes the last year. We had a very active sex life pre marriage and right up to when the kids were born. It was pretty good to start with, although the years when our children were small right up to when they left home were difficult. I know know thats when he started looking at porn, when our youngest was only 5. It coincided with our getting our first home computer. It picked up a bit after the kids had left although I dont think I was ever really satisfied. I've just read this back and realised something I hadn't noticed before. We were married nearly 27 years and the problems started after only 2 years! Holy crap. I hadn't worked it out before. I then had (let me work this out again), 19 years of intermittent mostly unsatisfying sex. Bloody hell. Followed by ok sex for the last 18 months. So that makes 3 and a half years out of 27? Have I got that right? Oh and one other thing I've just realised. He used to "accidentally" try anal only move it when I told him. Jeez. Thanks for this-its made me look back honestly. Oh and I've just ordered my first vibrator! Lol."

Thanks for sharing this fascinating insight Greyhoundgal. If I'm reading this correctly, you started off by writing that your sex life was fine, then ok, and then upon deeper reflection you realized it was truly ok for about 2 years, then not so great thereafter (19 years apparently). Good on you for looking at the facts...and for buying your first vibrator!

I've read similar posts from straight spouses clearly trapped in their husband's dark closets. And the denial isn't just about their sex lives. In an exchange of posts on this thread, there was a straight spouse who continued to claim her gay-in-denial husband was still a "good guy" even though he had AIDS, clearly from years of unprotected gay sex, and might have even given it to her. That's monstrous. BUT what I find most helpful about this forum is that straight spouses find a safe and honest place to share what's going on, often for the first time. Your recent comments remind me about just how manipulative gay-in-denial husbands (like I was) can be. That's why I think it's so important to focus on facts, rather than spin. And the facts don't lie. If your husband no longer has sex with you, watches gay porn, spends hours cruising for male-on-male sex, and has cheated on you with men, he's as gay as a rainbow. And if he DARES to try and explain away all of this or, worse, make you feel like ANY of this is your fault, he's also a rainbow-coloured *sshole. End of rant!  

Last edited by Sean (June 18, 2018 8:42 am)

Thanks OOHC. I hope life is getting better, and clearer, now that you're living on your own. I loved this:

"Deep and systemic" the warping is...

Sounds very Yoda-like. May the force be with us all my friend. Thinking of you. 

Lily if you don't mind me asking, why do they love their closet?  I hear that expression alot but don't quite understand the full meaning.  I mean, my GIDH hates himself for the fact that he's gay I believe so why do they love their closet?   It's so infuriating that other people think I said he was gay because I was so hurt and that was the only way I could deal with it.  His people don't believe me either.  FUCK THEM.  They never gave a shit about me anyway.  I was just "his wife".  UGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Sean you're so right about why he tends to be every woman's confidant!  If he only knew that it was a red flag.  I bet it would stop right away.   He loves the attention he gets from them too much to stop.  

Last edited by Kathyd (June 18, 2018 2:44 pm)

Why do they love their closet?  I think the one word answer is chemistry.

I think they're getting a constant dose of oxytocin out of it.  some sort of endogenous opioid anyway.  And that, I think is how come they can be so charming - the internal chemistry of lying.  

Perhaps you could say lying a lot about things that really hurt bad is stimulating an internal reward.  Like exercise and endorphins.  I don't know exactly and I now know I don't know so much I can't actually imagine what its like to be him.

Emotionally speaking I thought it would be better for him as well as me once we were apart and there wasn't someone living right next to him pressing on his closet walls, forcing him to lie a lot but I was entirely wrong about that.  

We can't imagine what it's like because we're built different.  Yes I like my endogenous opiates as much as anybody else but to get it out of harming someone instead of loving them is well I just can't wrap my head round it either.

At one time I was always trying to get him to talk, to open up with me and eventually I was pleading with him and he told me not to be emotional and walked off saying don't burst my bubble.  One of those few more honest things he said.

I felt guilty at the time, now remembering it I am sad for myself, wasn't he horrible.  There was a time my nickname for him (never spoken aloud) was bubble boy.  I came to realise it wasn't me doing something wrong he just would never care about me.  But if I tried to leave, there'd be trouble.

As their wives we are not just their 'beard', not just there for appearances sake.  We are supply.  We're providing the extra-good stimulation - they're not just deceiving their neighbours, they're deceiving the person who is up close and personal.  It is hurting us and they know but don't care, sadly I think it must be the cherry on the cake for them.

And I think this is why it's so hard to tell - far from alleviating him of stress, you are threatening him with the loss of supply in opening up the closet.

I think the men like Sean who find love with another man are the better ones.  The more sexually repressed and reliant on the closet for the good feelings they are, the more monstrous they become.  And I think it's a process that is ongoing through the generations.

Seeing as I've got this far I will also say I think staying with a gid is a hiding to nowhere, and if you thought it was bad before you know, once he knows you know it is not like sharing a secret with a friend who is likely to love you more it is the opposite.  well that's been my experience anyway.  It's just been so good to have this time away from him, I am sitting on my sunny verandah with the cat.  Almost immediately I fell in love with a straight man and tho it hasn't worked out to be together which was/is so painful it is a clean pain, and it's also been wonderful.

Last edited by lily (June 18, 2018 7:36 pm)

Thanks Lily. I liked that image of you quietly drinking tea on your verandah. This passage struck me:

"We can't imagine what it's like [to be closeted] because we're built different.  Yes I like my endogenous opiates as much as anybody else but to get it out of harming someone instead of loving them is well I just can't wrap my head round it either. At one time I was always trying to get him to talk, to open up with me and eventually I was pleading with him and he told me not to be emotional and walked off saying don't burst my bubble.  One of those few more honest things he said. I felt guilty at the time, now remembering it I am sad for myself, wasn't he horrible.  There was a time my nickname for him (never spoken aloud) was bubble boy.  I came to realise it wasn't me doing something wrong he just would never care about me.  But if I tried to leave, there'd be trouble. As their wives we are not just their 'beard', not just there for appearances sake.  We are supply.  We're providing the extra-good stimulation - they're not just deceiving their neighbours, they're deceiving the person who is up close and personal. It is hurting us and they know but don't care, sadly I think it must be the cherry on the cake for them."

Scary but true. I've read a lot about narcissism in an attempt to understand my own gay-in-denial (GID) narcissism. What you've shared sounds similar to a relationship with a toxic narcissist or even a sociopath. I characterize these relationships as "conditional love" because narcs and sociopaths don't have real feelings. They only want a constant supply of love and adulation. In my own gay/straight marriage, it went something like this: I'll continue to act like I love you as long as you go along pretending this fake relationship is a marriage. Put bluntly, once a straight wife starts making things difficult for her GID husband, namely by asking "Are you gay?" while also demanding love and affection, that's when he either walks from the relationship, punishes her (like Lily's ex-husband), or bludgeons his wife back into the closet. Thanks again for sharing Lily, although I'm sorry your ex-husband is such a wanker. Be well!