Good morning JK! Thank you for posting. In response to your questions/comments: 

1. Here's a tough question for you, Sean.  Do you know many other ex-GID spouses?

Yes I know many former gay-in-denial (or "GID") husbands. In fact, I had dinner with two of them just the other night and many former "straight" husbands are now my very good friends. 

2. I'm wondering if you/they ever even wanted children.  

All of my former GID friends are dads and many of them are exceptional dads. I've never discussed whether they wanted children or not. 

3. I believe that my ex was a robot, in his own life.  I think he did what he thought he should, including having children, but I know he was never himself.  

This could be a description of me. 

4. He seems to see the kids out of duty.  

Again this sounds a lot like me in my early days following separation, which I've often referred to as gay adolescence. I wasn't capable of functioning as a dad because I was so caught up in my own mental sh*t storm of coming out, having a new boyfriend, and being gay/fabulous. Mentally I was about 11 years old and also had to function as a father. So I agree with your statement. 

5. I have overheard 2 of my children saying that they know they were never wanted.  I made sure they heard from me that they were, absolutely, very wanted and very loved.  

How awful. You did the right thing by reassuring your kids. They should feel loved and appreciated. I reckon we're only capable of loving others as much as we love ourselves. As a formerly gay-in-denial husband, I hated myself to a point that I seriously considered suicide as a way out. It was back in December 2013. When I came out, I was lucky to have a very loving and supportive family, which includes my parents and big sister. This gave me the strength to function as a dad again although it took time. I also worked very hard to make new friends, many of whom are gay, and joined a local gay rugby team to have healthy gay relationships rather than just relationships based on meaningless sex. I love and have always loved my three children but following separation and in the early days of divorce, I was emotionally and physically adrift. During this period of "gay adolescence" I can appreciate that your children question if they were truly wanted, just as straight spouses wonder if they were truly loved. 

6. I didn't say what I was thinking.  What I was thinking:  "I don't think your father ever did want to have children."  That's a tough one.  

You make a very good point. I've often read about gay/straight or mixed-orientation-marriages abruptly ending when the gay husband finds a new boyfriend or new love. I seem to recall your (then) husband dropping everything, including a planned camping trip with one of your kids, for a getaway with his male crush. Given this kind of behaviour, the straight spouse is justified in questioning whether her gay (or gay-in-denial) husband ever wanted kids. I cringe when writing this but I remember hurrying through my youngest son's birthday party to run off for a dinner with my then crush. I'm not proud of that moment but it does capture my state of mind at the time. I was the emotional equivalent of a teen dad rushing off to party with his friends rather than fulfill his fatherly duties. 

7. I'd move far, far away, except I hesitate to take the kids away from their dad.

Do what's best for you and your kids JK. For a time, my ex-wife refused to let me have the kids on weekends. As I told her not too long ago, she was right to do so because the kids would come back from their time with me traumatized. And if I'm being completely honest, in the early days following separation/divorce, I was just going through the motions of acting like a dad. My priorities were: sex; my gay friends; and doing whatever my heart desired. My eldest son cut off contact for about six months last year because he was so angry with me. We've since reconciled. Things are better now and I see my kids regularly but for a time I was truly radioactive. Based on conversations I've had with fellow 'newly out' gay husbands and also based on what I've read here, most of us go through a form of delayed adolescence during which we act like boy-crazy teenagers. Sadly, kids aren't a priority during gay adolescence and some gay men get stuck there in a semi-closeted fog. In my particular situation, I made every mistake possible, hurt my kids, and damn near came close to permanently severing ties with eldest son (my fault). But once I came completely out of the closet, got support, went through therapy, and started actively sharing here, I slowly started to love myself as an out gay man which allowed me to reconnect with my kids. Sadly my ex-wife had to be and do everything for herself and my kids during this long period of self discovery. 

I hope that helps my friend. If you have more questions/comments, please feel free to share. Be well! 

Last edited by Séan (April 29, 2018 6:59 am)

Thanks JK. In reply: 

1. These past 2 posts from you have been very thought-provoking for me.  Thank you for writing.  Thank you for not becoming defensive, in your responses to what I think are tough questions to answer.  I've tried asking my ex some of these questions, but have stopped doing that.  His answers, always, turn into blaming me.  I always stop the conversation, the second he begins to blame.  (The "conversations" are only by email or text).  I don't speak with him, at this point.  

My pleasure JK. But please keep in mind that I was just like your husband no too long ago: meaning defensive, selfish, and immature. There was a time when I'd also turn everything against my (then) wife to a point that she questioned if she was the cause of my homosexuality. Just imagine your husband as if trying to co-parent with a 15-year-old boy so I think you're right to limit contact. 

2. You must be right.  He must still be in that "gay adolescence".  He is not prioritizing the children, in any way. He does the minimal expected by the court documents.  Not one speck more.  He says things like, "I regret, every day, leaving you."   (absolute bs).  I believe he says this so he can play out that imaginary life as a "good husband".  He says he is lonely and sad and thinks of us, every day.  What do his actions say?  His actions:  3 vacations, 2 out of the country, in the past few months...all while doing the absolute minimum for our children.  All while the children and I struggle, financially.

That's a shame. I hope it gets better. 

3. Often, folks here say, "Focus on yourself and your children".  That is excellent advice.  Every minute of time I spend trying to understand my ex is time taken away from my children.  Still, it helps me to hear your perspective.  Perhaps, some day, IF he does the work required, my ex will care a bit more about his children than he does about himself.

Let's hope he can be himself, honest, and thereby a good father to the kids. 

Question: is he now out of the closet to your kids, friends, and his family? Thinking of you my friend. 

2naive,
This is a confusing time.  12 weeks is very early, in this struggle.  I looked back at some of your earlier posts, and you are often supporting others, here.  Have you thought about starting your own thread, just for you?  With the right support, one step at a time, you can get through this and be an even better person, on the other side.  I never thought I'd say that, when I was at the 12-week point, as you are.  I am 2 years post-disclosure, and I am far better off, than I was when I was married.  I never thought I'd say that.

Sean's posts (along with so many others) have helped me a lot.  Thank you, Sean.

Hi all
I’m new here although I’ve had my suspicions about my husband for 3 years now. Where do I start...
3 years ago when I was pregnant with our daughter I found photos of my husband on his iPad, for me they were clearly aimed at men, pictures of him bent over etc. I also found evidence that he’d been on several gay porn and hook up sites. I cried for days but I didn’t mention it. I did briefly bring up the photos to which his response was something along the lines of practicing poses I could do for him!!
Anyway jump to 3 years, through which I’ve been constantly checking his history etc (which has all been wiped after every use) until last night I found similar photos and a new hook up site history from last month.
I’m angry at myself for letting this happen again. But I told myself he’s a good man, he can’t be gay, he takes care of us, goes to work so I can stay home with our children etc. I couldn’t face it being true and us breaking up.
There’s other things too, we barely have sex and he never even touches me anymore. When we do have sex he likes to go down on me, which is confusing as I though gay men didn’t like that? He’s very into pleasing me but struggles to climax and is never fully hard. I’ve found evidence that he’s ordered viagra in the past and when I’ve asked him about it he just shuts me down saying he didn’t tell me because it’s embarrassing etc. Which maybe I could understand if we were just dating but we’re married! He’s older than be by 17 years, I don’t know if that’s relevant or not and he was married before. That marriage ended because she cheated but I don’t know anymore about it really. Sorry for rambling on and I hope I’ve made sense. I just don’t know what to do!
In your experience does this sound like he’s gay/actively cheating? What should I do? I just feel so lost and sick and angry.

Hi Wondering. Thank you for writing. In reply: 

1. Hey Sean, first off thanks for helping all of us and putting your time into replying.

That's very kind of you. Thank you. 

2. I was wondering if you or other gay men you know have “gay phases” where you may be more sexually looking for men and then cool down a bit to enjoying everyday things.

I'm struggling a bit with this question my friend. I don't consider myself to be in a "gay phase" but rather just a full-time gay man. A gay man doesn't have a "gay phase" which sounds a bit like a new hair colour. I'd say that gay-in-denial men like me rather have a "straight" phase, meaning that I was a gay man who pretended to be straight by marrying a woman. As for sexual desire, I reckon it's the same for both gay and straight people. This means that it naturally goes up and down so yes sometimes I have a stronger libido and other times I just want to cosy up with a book in bed. Question: can you explain what you mean by "everyday things"? 

3. My husband seems to go dating sites or wanting to meet up with men then stops and doesn’t seem as interested gets back into hobbies and then again he will be back into gay porn, dating sites and so on. It is like if it peaks and goes back down again and gradually builds back up.

Let's pause here and highlight what you've written: "My husband goes on dating sites or wanting to meet up with men..." A husband shouldn't be cheating because he's dating his wife. Straight husbands (and fathers) don't: watch gay porn; cruise gay hook up sites; and sleep with men. I've just done a quick check of your previous messages and came across this: 

4. We are still in the same house. He was at his parents for awhile but yeh is back here. But he’s now admitted his gay and looking for men and I’m just doing my own thing for my happiness. I can’t say it I’m 100% fine with it but I know we will never be that cute old couple. I got through many of different emotions but I’m mainly focusing on me and the kids happiness seeing a therapist. I’m not trying anymore I’ve tried for so long and I’m tired now.. so I’m building my walls back up. He is gay and that’s all there is to it. 

I reckon both gay and straight spouses go through a bargaining period. And that period sounds a lot like: 

- Straight wife: "Maybe he's bi rather than gay?"
- Gay husband: "I've only been with one man and I still love you." 
- Straight wife: "Does anyone have experience with a mixed orientation marriage?"
- Gay husband: "I've stopped watching gay porn and am going to have lots of sex with my wife." 
- Straight wife: "I'm going to stay with him because I love him...and for the kids." 

My bargaining stage lasted about 18 months. It was a terribly unhappy time which sounds a lot like what you're going through now: the gay husband has admitted he's gay; the straight wife is both shocked and depressed; he's clearly having sex outside the marriage yet the couple doesn't want to admit that their marriage is dead; the straight wife clings to the idea that he may be "bisexual" or "still kind of straight" even though they haven't had sex in months or years; and their poor children are suffering because they don't know what's going on. 

I personally don't believe that being gay is a phase. I was born gay, have always been attracted to men, and despite marrying a woman my God-given sexual attraction to men never went away. Once I'd slept with a man, this shut the door on me being able to pretend that I was straight which includes acting straight in the bedroom. Sex with my wife became less frequent and then stopped completely. Others have shared about a different kind of limbo stage during which the straight wife was used by her gay in denial (or "GID") husband as a kind of sexual prop. This means her husband remained sexual but in a way that demonstrated he was clearly more interested in sex with men. This means he wants his wife to: peg him (penetrate him with a dildo); sleep with other men; or have sex with other men while he watches. It's a time when he is technically having sex with his wife but in a very male-on-male way. 

But I digress. In response to Wondering's kind message on this thread, I reckon the moment a straight wife starts posting here, her gay/straight marriage is dead. What remains is to truly bury the marriage via separation and divorce. I know from experience that it takes a long time to work through the bargaining or denial stages of grief. My own bargaining stage took about 18 months before my (then) wife and I separated and then divorced. So what's my point? Wondering89 there will likely come a point when you accept your husband is gay, always was gay, and there is nothing you can do or could have done to change that. That's the moment when the straight spouse stops bargaining and focuses fully on her own happiness. And most often that happiness begins when she leaves her gay husband. I hope that helps my friend. Be well.  

Last edited by Séan (May 14, 2018 2:26 am)