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1 of 1- upnorth
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Relationship not going well
Hello, I haven't been here in a while, but just came back and am reading some posts. Such a supportive community. I'm married to a transgender man who is still in the closet, only out to me and his therapist. Things were pretty rocky a few months ago, but have calmed down over the summer. He and I get along, but we don't really have a marriage anymore. Sex has disappeared, poof, non-existent. He doesn't make any moves, and I don't make any moves. I tried to schedule some time for it on Sunday, but when it came down to it, I just couldn't do it. I couldn't bring myself to want it. It's like a switch turned off. He seemed amiable and ready, and was hurt when I told him that I was tired and didn't have it in me that day. Which was just an excuse. I did end up telling him this morning that I didn't want to have sex with him anymore, which precipitated a fight and hurtful words and anger. Which I don't really understand because he never asks me anymore. So I don't know if he is just waiting for me to get interested again, which I'm afraid isn't going to happen. I don't want to even talk about this stuff with him anymore. It just gets emotionally charged and I shut down and we don't solve anything. I have known for weeks that I don't want to do it anymore with him. I think doing our nails together really just threw the towel in for me. I was trying to be supportive and understanding, and it just killed any sexual drive or interest I had in him before that point.
We haven't talked about the transgender thing in some weeks, I think because it got talked out when it first came out and we both just took a think break for a while on it. But it's there. He dyed his hair bright blue and bought a pop doll of a BabyMetal character that sits right in front of his computer monitor (Japanese pop metal girl band). He has told me several times that he feels like a cute Japanese girl on the inside. I don't understand any of it. He's planning on writing a web comic, (he's a gifted artist) and I can't be 100% sure, but I'm pretty certain it is going to be about transgender topics. This is a new thing he wants to do and he obviously has a story in mind.
I don't look on his computer for porn or other things, mostly because I know it is probably there. He professes not to be gay, and maybe I'm a fool but I believe him. But there are warning signs, like he would always ask me for anal sex through our marriage. I never really thought much about it until reading some of the stories on here. And he would always protest any attraction to men. Maybe he protests too much. He did confess to me once laying his head on his roommates lap. But he never took any of the gay people who hit on him up on their proposals, so not sure what to make of all of it. I'm tired of trying to figure it out.
I know he hasn't cheated on me. I always know where he is between his penchant for staying home and his previous job. So we haven't cheated on each other, at least we have that going for us. Unless porn counts as cheating. That particular donkey has been beaten to death in our marriage, and I wasn't strong enough to leave because of it. I didn't want to be the one responsible for breaking it up. This transgender thing is really rocking my boat though.
It doesn't help that I feel like a heel and a bitch too. I haven't been very nice to him, when he is working so hard to clean up his act, quit drinking and smoking, eating light, trying to lose weight. He has a lot more energy and drive now that is isn't working the job that sucked out his creative soul. But that also means he is pushier around the house, having opinions about things he has never cared about before. That has been disconcerting too. But I can't complain because he is doing the dishes and laundry now, so obviously I'm just the whiny bitch.
So I've been pushing him away. I don't even attempt to be intimate anymore and we just avoid each other unless interaction is necessary. We are generally civil and friendly. Even so, I find him mildly irritating, and if I wasn't married to him I wouldn't be his friend. But sometimes I wonder if this isn't just a passing thing, like I just need some time and space to get used to this new person, and maybe things will get better. But I also feel like he is going to just keep changing and changing and I'm going to be forced keep adjusting. I'm not going to be good at that, so all I can look forward to is this perpetual limbo and me in a grossly unhappy state.
But there's all sorts of things I wonder about myself. I wonder if I'm really cut out to be married to anybody at all. You see, I just don't like being around people. I'm not an intimate person. I don't divulge details about myself, especially to people that are close to me. I've always been this way. I'm more likely to talk about intimate topics to a total stranger than to a close friend or family member. Because at least I don't have a relationship with the stranger. I get lonely, but when it comes down to it I don't have a deep need for intimate relationships. It's super weird. I'm pretty happy being by myself. I don't ask for things from people. In fact, I think people find that disconcerting. I don't need anything from anybody. I'm cursedly independent. Having two kids has been hard, hard, hard. I dealt with massive rage and anger from the sleep deprivation and meeting my children's relational needs. I have a deep well of patience that I drew from to make it, but most of the time I was in survival mode, my house a mess, barely making it through just to do that. I was so grateful my husband worked 12 hour shifts because I could not have made it if he had been home more than he was. I probably would have left. I've fantasized about leaving this marriage for several years, and almost did it a few times. It's easier now that the littles are a but older, but still hard somedays. I can't figure out if I really am a bitch or if I'm just an extreme introvert with little need for human contact. I'm fine when I am around people, I just don't need to be intimate with others. I get along great with co-workers, have been a leader all of my life, do fine in crowds, speak publicly, lead worship, breezed through college. But one on one I just can't be myself. I kind of feel sorry for my husband now that I realize all these things. I really didn't know myself very well before getting married.
There was lots of emotional and even a few occasions of physical abuse over the last 3 years. Most of the time I started it, or at least did little to stop it. I was almost addicted to the emotional release of the fights, even though I hated them at the same time. I didn't know who I was anymore. My husband needed so much more from me emotionally than I was capable, or still am capable, of giving. I was never able to meet his need to connect. It would weird me out. When women would bemoan their husbands lack of communication or intimacy, I would think how lucky they were. I was so tired of being psychoanalyzed and asked for things that I simply could not deliver. When the transgender thing came to light, some of it made sense because he was looking for a "girlfriend", which of course I wasn't, because I was trying to relate to him as my husband. It was an awful combination. So many hurt feelings. Sorry, but I'm not interested in giggling on the couch and watching horror movies, something he always wanted to do with me. I hate horror movies.
Anyways, I don't know if anybody ever can relate with me. I feel pretty, pretty alone. I feel kind of like a freak, actually. I don't think my husband is totally at fault, and I don't think I am totally at fault that we are where we are. I think we both had good intentions when we got married. We just didn't know ourselves very well. I'm not a quitter, but I don't think I can make it very much further in this marriage. I think he deserves someone who accepts him completely for who he is, transgender feelings and all. I need someone who likes my introversion and doesn't expect more than I can give. And at this point, I'm not even wanting to be married again. I don't think the state will make me happy or at peace. Singleness is looking pretty darn attractive.
- upnorth
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Re: Relationship not going well
So I just had a long conversation with my husband only to find out he was dreading sex as much as I was. He flat out told me he was tired of the control his sex drive has had over his life and felt so free when it disappeared when he was on the anti-depressants.
Our conversation was civil and calm, and we both admitted that we weren't happy. He feels rejected by me, which is true in a bunch of ways, and that I don't accept the transgender part of him. Can't say I have gotten around to embracing that part of him, which is really what he wants. He told me that I wasn't flexible, like his mother. Ugh. Well, maybe he is right. He also said that it frustrates him, but that he doesn't blame me, but he doesn't want to be treated like dirt either.
Sometimes I can't help but treat him like dirt. I'm never overt about it, but he's pretty emotionally aware and picks up on passive aggressive things I do. But sometimes I'm just surprised by the things that go on with him. He's always saying something to shock me. He's just too much for me. I don't have the emotional grid to handle him/her. So we are in a truce now. No sex, just taking care of the kids and the house, trying to keep a roof over our heads. He has the galls to be angry at me, like I created this situation and he didn't. It's too much to wrap my brain around.
I'm feeling pretty messed up over the whole thing. I'm pretty ready to leave. I don't see much hope at all. He told me he had been seriously considering it as well. He would be up a creek though. He has no steady job and we are on my 25 hour a week job health insurance. We are trying to get our website building business rebooted, but that could take a year before it is anything to support anybody. I care about him enough not to want him out on the streets without a job or a means to support himself. I guess if he really wanted to leave he would get himself a job and get out.
Last edited by upnorth (August 17, 2016 2:16 am)
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Thread Starter- WendiT
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Re: Relationship not going well
Dear upnorth,
Welcome. I don't have any experience or knowledge about navigating the Trans issues. But I wanted to give you a book suggestion about introverts: Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking by Susan Cain. One of my children is an extreme introvert and loved this book. I never finished reading it because they grabbed the book before I could finish. The author also has a very good TED Talk about introversion that is worth taking a look at. I have noticed that this book is becoming suggested reading on many a Summer Reading List for schools.
There are others here that will come along who will be able to give you their thoughts and suggestions on navigating Trans issues. I have no experience with it so I have no advice to give. However after reading your post I was struck with the thought that it should be okay that your fire isn't lit by you H who is transitioning.
You will find understanding and acceptance here and I hope it makes the journey easier. You are not alone.
PS - the link to the TED Talk:
Last edited by WendiT (August 17, 2016 8:16 am)
"No matter how hard the journey may be, remember to be kind to yourself..."
- Kel
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Re: Relationship not going well
Hi upnorth,
What you're going through sounds very stressful. And confusing. I think you've got a great sense of self-awareness though, and that will help you very much. To know what you're capable of is a HUGE part of figuring out what you want. Part of me wants to suggest to you that you get counseling to get down to the bottom of the issue of why you're so devoid of need for human interaction. The other part of me feels that if you're comfortable this way, then why change something that's not bothering you? And then the final part of me says "because it's not a healthy way to be, and your kids need to see healthy behavior". You don't necessarily need to become an outgoing person - that's not what I'm talking about. But if you don't feel deeply connected to your kids and them to you, that's not the best life you can live. That all being said, I am easily connected to everyone on the planet, and I hated the sleep deprivation and constant issues of parenthood, too. It's exhausting - physically and mentally. So I believe that's normal, too. That doesn't mean you're not connected.
Now,..... as for your marriage. Wow. I'm really sorry you're going through all of that! What a clusterf*ck!!! On the one hand, I feel like the lack of sex isn't a problem for you, since you don't want it and don't seem to miss it. But on the other hand, I do believe that you might feel differently if it seemed like an avenue worth pursuing. If it was with someone you felt connected to and had chemistry with and desire for. And I'm not sure you'll feel those things for your husband when he's moving further and further away from what drew you to him in the first place. And that's normal. I love my current (st8) husband very, very much. Part of me thinks that if you put him in a completely different body, I'd still feel the same things for him. But..... if he suddenly went all Caitlyn Jenner on me? I would NOT feel the same way about him. I adore that he's the big, protective man (and I'm also large and fiercely independent, so I don't "need" the protection as much as I enjoy the feeling of him having my back). I love that he's all man and looks and smells and acts and thinks like one. If I wanted a woman, I would have married one. I love men - I love THIS man more than all the rest. And no, I would not be cool with him transitioning into a female. I might still love who he is on the inside, but no - he wouldn't be the "man" for me. I think that's perfectly reasonable and acceptable. It's not politically correct, but to hell with that. My truth is my truth. Trust me when I say that I can't think of a man alive that wouldn't have a huge issue with his wife transitioning into a man. HE would have to be gay to be okay with that. And you would have to be a lesbian to be okay with your husband transitioning into becoming a woman.
I also had a situation where I didn't think my GIDXH would be able to support himself if I asked him to leave. So he took 2 years to finish his education and get on his feet before he left. It.was.miserable. I couldn't figure out what else to do though, since he had no friends and his only real family in the state was his mother, who was living with us. The truth is that it wouldn't have mattered how long I gave him - he still (even with an education and me without one) couldn't seem to support himself, much less make child support payments. So he did just what he was good at - finding someone else to step in and support him. They make it work somehow. His first live-in boyfriend actually called me several months after they moved in together, asking if my ex had always had job issues. Uh-oh. Yes, yes he did. The guy was like, "Well, then he lied about you - he said he didn't have any money because YOU demanded it all. From my interactions with you, I think he's lying. Is he lying?" And I told him that yes, he was lying - he hadn't paid me anything for over a year at that point. The guy was like, "I had NO IDEA he was like this. I'm older and am looking toward retirement. I'm no one's sugar daddy! I can't do this. I wish I would have talked to you months ago." So obviously them taking advantage of us has enabled them to hone the skills they need to do what's necessary with someone else. Trust me on this one.
It seems to me that if you two can't be who the other needs, the relationship is doomed. I think you'd both be happier alone - whether with the possibility of finding love again, or content to be alone.
Kel
You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
- upnorth
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Re: Relationship not going well
Thanks for the link Wendi. I had heard of the book before, but haven't taken the plunge and read it. I've been aware of my introversion for some time now and have done some other reading up on it when I run across articles and such.
Thanks for the thoughts Kel. I did try a counselor for six months, and it helped me a little bit, but the counselor seemed to think I was a pretty even keeled, if introverted person and seemed at a loss as to how to help me. Maybe I'm just not brutally honest or something, or I wasn't really listening. Like I said, I tend to project security and I've-got-it-all-together when I am in person with other people. It's this automatic thing I do, even if I'm not ok. And people don't even believe me when I say I'm not ok. It's like, what do I have to do to get people to understand I'm not ok? Probably the person I confide in the most is my mother, who is awesome, but I can't tell her any of this damning stuff about my husband. Even my counselor agreed with that point of view. I connect okay with my kids. They are pretty much the only people I connect with very well aside from my parents. I just have a low need for human interaction. Very low. Just going to work and maybe seeing a friend once a month is more than enough for me to not feel overwhelmed and exhausted. When younger I had no problem shutting myself in my room for days just reading books, and I had zero drive to hang out with the friends I did have. I can't say I'm very stimulating company either. Yeah. Very low need for interaction! My parents probably loved it, I hardly bothered them at all.
I am going to miss sex. I might not want it a whole lot, but I definitely know I would miss it if I say goodbye for the remainder of my adult life. Seems cruel and unfair. My husband might want to castrate himself, but I'm not interested in that! He hates his testosterone so much he told me he wanted to cut his balls off the other day.
I can feel myself giving up. I've really worked hard, tried hard, though hubby doesn't seem to think so. According to him he's the only one doing work in this marriage. Heard that line fresh out of his mouth today. Life shouldn't be this hard. Coming home shouldn't feel like jail, like I will never measure up. Ironically, he feels that way too, like he can never measure up to what I want. He's super sensitive too. Any comment I make is dissected and examined and blown out of proportion. Meanwhile I put up with criticism, innocent suggestions of let's do it better this way, or why don't you just leave the pantry to me.
We had a stupid argument today. He mentioned he wanted to create a little path to our deck by digging into the lawn and putting some stones down. Blinking, I said, ok, but what about the weeds after the stones are in? Do you want weeds growing between the stones? Ok, he hadn't thought of that, good idea, probably should dig up more than a few holes, actually dig the path out. Ok, I said, then you should put down some material to keep the weeds from coming up. And probably should be lined with a liner to keep the lawn from encroaching down the road. Suddenly, I'm the bad guy because I'm "shooting down his idea." I "never want him to do anything" I "can't stand it when he wants to do something nice". When all I did was make some common sense suggestions that HE ASKED FOR. What he really wanted was my unfettered stamp of approval. "Sure, do whatever you want, and I have no opinion about it and I will like it when it is done no matter what I think" is what he really wanted to hear based on his behavior. Whatever, you asked for my opinion, and if you are so easily discouraged then you didn't really want to do the project, didn't think it through, and are living in some sort of fairy land!
Problem is, he doesn't really like me anymore, wants to leave, but doesn't see a way out. He's afraid I will get remarried and the new guy will take his kids away. He's really happy not working right now. I don't mind working, goodness knows he's worked hard the last 6 years or so, while making us all miserable at the same time. It's like now that he's his new self, those last 6 years don't matter anymore. Except when he wants to bring them up as ammunition and proof at how hard he worked to support us. It's a mind f*ck.
What's even worse is we will get along for a few days, and I think hey, this might be ok, and then something stupid happens and I hold my breath waiting for the accusations and emotional abuse to start all over again. He went off of his anti-depressants to lose weight, because he couldn't lose weight on them. I liked him much better on the anti-depressants. His tongue wasn't so sharp and the mood swings and anger were manageable. He wants to get back on them after losing 50 pounds, so its kind of a waiting game at this point on that.
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Thread Starter- Dixie
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Re: Relationship not going well
Upnorth,
I am not sure I would describe you as "giving up" ... I think it takes courage to recognize that it is time to find a reasonable, fair, and kind way to move towards a situation where you both can be happier. Just because there is no perfect future scenario does not mean that you should do nothing. It really seems in your case that both of you have more to gain than lose. And as this continues, the kids will begin to suffer as well. Because you are both able to talk with each other, it seems likely that you can both work together to exit as friends. If you wait, resentment will build and even the friendship might be gone. It is good to be very cautious about breaking up a marriage, but I dont think either of you can be happy with this new dynamic. Certainly not you.
- Rob
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Re: Relationship not going well
Upnorth,
I feel so bad for you.
I have no experience with transgender... but I don't think when we got married it was something we though of under "in sickness and in health".
I always thought I was basically the same person I was when I got married. When I see my friends from college they are basically the same. How a spouse could change so much ...no...it's not something we thought of when we took our vows and promises.
I urge you to be kind to yourself and not think you have to solve all your husbands problems. I may sound mean but he sounds very selfish and narcisstic. I found our spouses have a talent for taking their problems and making them our problem. At some point we have to say no...I cannot fix this.. and then we have to decide what we want to do. I think you've done all you can for your husband. I found one person cannot hold a marriage together
..there is a lack of trust that cannot be mended if only one person wants the marriage.
Praying for you.
"For we walk by faith, not by sight .." 2Corinthians 5:7
- whatasham24
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Re: Relationship not going well
UpNorth, you are not alone! I am in the exact same marriage. i want you to know the following issues you mention are not exclusive to you, there is nothing 'wrong' with you, but rather, they are the RESULT of living with a TG husband:
1. You aren't that interested in sex & happy to avoid it, but depressed to think the rest of your adult life may be a sexless one (if u stay with your TG husband). You lack an interest in sex BECAUSE you r married to a TG! Because of their own gender issues,they are not interested in (straight) sex, don't make you feel like sex with you is a wonderful experience & you probably feel unattractive & asexual because his TG issues are highly unattractive to you & you aren't a lesbian. It's no wonder you dont feel like having sex! You're not attracted to him even in male mode because of all the turn offs, mistrust, deceit, nagging......AND HE HURT YOU TO THE VERY CORE OF YOUR SPIRIT & YOUR MARRIAGE VOWS! How the hell are you supposed to feel like giving yourself to someone who stole so much from you? I know I completely shut down sexually because my TG husband did all of the above, plus never told me i was beautiful/sexy/desirable for 20+ years & when he did kiss me or make love (years ago), i could TELL he was repulsed, or at the very least, not attracted to me. A woman *knows* these things by how she is touched, kissed etc. Your sexual soul shuts down not just because it isn't being excercised & fulfilled, but also as a survival instinct to avoid further pain.
2. He is nitpicking the hell out of you to keep you down. He has to try to level the fault score somehow, to keep his post in your home & family (he is vocal about his fear of being replaced with a new 'dad'). There's that saying, "The only way some people can keep you, is by keeping you down". Classic narc.
3. You may be suffering from PTSD, or clinical depression. One of the tell tale signs is anti social behavior & agoraphobia. You have children, you work, you are in a crappy marriage, your husband is an ass & first rate douche, you are living a very serious, life altering secretive & guilt ridden marriage & ......HE'S TRANSGENDER!!. This is all a very big deal & insanely sressful! Most people would be in a hospital with serious emotional trauma, but you are carrying on pretty damn well. I'd be willing to bet that if you took all the crap that involves your husband out of your life, you'd be a hella lot more energetic, happy & more interested in getting out & socializing.
I know all of this because you have described me, to a T!! I used to be social, happy, outgoing, independent, active, hopeful & interested in sex! I have made an about face in the last 10 years, slowly eroding all that I was and now feel absolutely bankrupt, physically & emotionally. I can't see the forest for the trees, think I have nothing to offer anyone, full of negative perceptions about myself, my future & life in general. I wasn't always this way, but living with a TG will do that to you. This is NOT a normal way of life, by anyone's standards so how can we expect to feel positive, balanced & on the right side of the happy scale? Add to that the fact you have been living like this for so damn long, it's hard to remember what you were like before all this started to erode your spirit.
Rob is correct. your husband (and all TG's married to unwilling str8 spouses) are selfish & narcissistic. It does not get better at this point & the only thing you can count on in your future relationship is more hurt, disgust & shutting down. I have been at this for 25+ years. I wish I got out 23 years ago.
"Hubby's feelings are hurt because he feels like he doesn't measure up"?? No he DOESN'T measure up! You did not intend to be married to someone who wants to change their gender, making you a lesbian. (I'm all for LGBT rights as well, but that is not a free pass to lying, stealing, cheating someone out of an honest & authentic love filled life). For him to turn this or any of the TG related marital problems on you is pure gaslighting & abusive. He needs to own up to his responsibility & selfishness, although I doubt he will. They never do.
'If I wasn't married to him, I wouldn't be friends with him". .....Wow! Not only did that resonate with me, but I believe you have your answer right there about what you deserve from a marriage & what you need to do. I know how hard it is, climbing out of the gutter, but you & your children are so worth it. These cowards we married are not the standard to which all men are measured, nor what normal marriages can expect. I don't have a clue what my future holds, how i'm going to proceed, but I do know I don't want to spend the rest of my life like this anymore. I really don't think i'd survive another 5 years. It's too damn dark & lonely.
Big whoop he worked hard for 6 years. We all work hard as spouses, parents, moms/dads. That is not an excuse to being selfish, deceitful, abusive or negligent moving forward. He needs to get over himself by the sounds of it.They get this way, TG's & their "Pink Fog Syndrome", so far up their own asses of how pretty & amazing they are & entitled for having suffered so much. *eyeroll*
:Life shouldn't be this hard". You're right UpNorth, it shouldn't. You deserve much much more. Do you have a family member or good friend that you can talk to, get support from? You didn't mention a therapist, I would highly recommend finding one. Perhaps an extended health benefit program at your work can provide one or pay for one? Please make it a priority to get some advice, outside of your husbands nagging & ideas on what should, could, outta happen. He does not have you or your children's best interests at heart.
Peace & strength to you UpNorth, please keep us posted xx