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July 29, 2016 10:09 am  #1


New here - not new to this .....

I am new here - but not new to all these emotions

I discovered my husband was living a secret life in the gay world some 8/9 years ago ( a bit of a blur ) - I monitored him for some months and then confronted him  - I was totally knocked sideways - it was as though  he had taken our relationship, my trust, a beautiful cut crystal vase and smashed it violently to the floor shattering it into a myriad smithereens - and I had to chose whether or not to pick up the pieces and try to 'fix it'

 I  decided to - I was totally in love with him - looking back now I realise there was a lot of manipulation and control in the  relationship - but at the time I was in love . I wanted to forgive him, I realise now that I wanted to believe at least some of his excuses and stories - I knew deep in my heart that he hadn't told me everything - he hadn't admitted to the worst parts - but I chose to forgive - I chose to stay in my marriage  - I chose to believe his protestations of love, of remorse, of determination to change . Looking back now I acknowledge I was not in a strong place , I was emotionally dependant , I was financially dependant, I had two young children ( 7 and 12) and I believed the security of a family was the best environment for them to grow up in. I wanted my family to stay together ,

I have grown in the meantime - not without a lot of suffering and reaching the depths of despair in the interim - I ended up with anxiety, on anti-depressants that took me to the point of feeling suicidal , I felt no joy, no sadness, nothingness - I had lost myself and this lasted for a few years  - I came off the medication - I reclaimed control over my emotional status - I detatched emotionally from him and realised the control I had been under .

I had a light bulb moment last year when through online research I came across definitions of borderline and narcissistic personality disorders - the checklists of 'symptoms' matched the man I have been married to for 21 years almost 99%. 

On top of this he has started drinking , and when drunk ( though in denial over this problem ) becomes verbally aggressive and with tunnel vision , he has become extremely sensitive and defensive to any opinion contrary to his own, accusing me and his kids of criticizing him when all we are doing is stating a differing opinion - he has been on antidepressants ( strong psych meds ) since the confrontation 8/9 years ago  - he is extremely self absorbed and wants pity from all around him and has started to criticize me to our friends behind my back

And I am seeing the same symptoms as before -  he has started being absent for extended periods of time , lying about his whereabouts ( obvious not only to me but to our children as well now they are older  ) ; he keeps his mobile phone with him at all times, even taking it into the bathroom with him ; he deletes his browsing history on the computer ; he lets incoming phone calls drop or doesn't answer them; he deletes messenger conversations from his phone; he deletes call logs ..... he is doing it all over again and is being careful - more careful than before

And my daughter has realised ( she is now 20 and recently married ) too

I know he goes online to find 'masseurs' , but as well as normal masseurs for his back issues, he actively (excuse the pun ) seeks out gay masseurs, those that offer additional services, escorts , the kind that advertise their services with their own photo and explicit sites for over 18s only - basically he hooks up with male prostitutes that advertise their services combined with massages - its easy to find out nowadays - I see a phone number, I enter it in google together with the word masseur and up come the listings of the individual in question - clear as day - irrefutable

But of course he would explain it away - ' I looked it up but I didn't go there ' ( but now we have gps tracking so that lie can be refuted ) , then he would say ' I went but not for sexual services , for a massage for  my back issues ' .... yeah, right !!!!!

I know how good he is at lying, how convincing he can be when he denies facts, how good he is at gas lighting and projection

So that in part is why I am here
I know that I will confront him when I have sufficient evidence to 'prove'
I am not prepared to tolerate this in my marriage - I am not prepared to live a lie - I am not prepared to be continually lied to and about - I am not prepared to walk on eggshells to placate someone who behind my back is screwing around and laughing at my naivety and good nature
But part of me is also scared - I don't want to go back to that dark place that I was in before - I don't want to go back on antidepressants or anti -anxiety meds that played with my head and sent me manic , first up then down  and having me thinking I am bipolar - I need solidarity and to find the strength to confront him and expose the lie, I guess I need to stop myself from falling back into the place where I want to believe a lie and where I want to believe that  things are as I would like them to be

So I am here - continuing to gather evidence - letting the brutal and ugly truth set in once again - feeling sick to my stomach every time I come across something that 'might be' - yet I know deep in my soul that it is ...

Oh .. and by the way .. .yesterday I found a membership card to an association called ''anddos'' together with an ID of his ( a valid driving license for a country we no longer live in that has since been replaced )  ... I looked it up... .. suspicion confirmed once again .....  


Last edited by sallyfindsout (July 29, 2016 10:25 am)

 

July 29, 2016 10:35 am  #2


Re: New here - not new to this .....

Hi Sally,

I'm so sorry you're going through this.  I love that you're not fooled any longer, though.  That you can see the situation for what it truly is, and you're in a good place mentally.

Let me ask you - what is the purpose of continuing to gather evidence?  If it's for the divorce (proof of cheating), then I'd think you have enough evidence already.  I don't know what anddos is, but I'm assuming it's a membership into something gay-related, or at least a dating/hookup site.  That's proof enough there alone, but you already have so much more.  I don't get the feeling that the proof you need is for the divorce proceedings as much as for justification that you have a right to leave.  Sally, you have that right even if you'd found NOTHING.  You don't legally have to stay with him.  You could wake up one day and be like, "I'm thinking I want to be free - I'll get a divorce", and you'd have every right to do so.  But that's not what you're doing.  You're leaving a man who:
Is a narcissist
Manipulates you
Lies to you
Overreacts to any differing opinion
Drinks and becomes verbally aggressive
Is selfish
Is pity-seeking
Bad mouths you to your friends
Goes missing for long periods of time
Lies about his wherabouts
Hides all evidence on electronic media that people who aren't doing anything wrong don't hide
Gaslights you
Visits known gay establishments

WHAT.MORE.PROOF are you needing to justify a divorce to yourself???  You have literally been suicidal over the brokenheartedness this man has caused you.  I understand wanting some concrete truth that would nail him to the wall.  But hon - you could have pics of him boinking another man and he'd just say that the dude LOOKS like him, but isn't him.  Or he'd say something utterly ridiculous like, "You gonna believe what you see, or are you going to trust me?"  Or he'd say that it's just sex - it didn't mean anything - he loves you.  He won't do it again.  And it'd all.be.lies.  You KNOW this.  There is nothing you need that you don't already have.  You could tell him tonight that you want a divorce, and when he says "Why???", you could say, "Because you're a lying, manipulative, cheating piece of shit".  And it wouldn't matter if HE agrees with you or not - YOU get to feel that way - withOUT his permission.  All you have to do is stand your ground.  You do NOT have to prove ANYthing to be done.  He knows.  He'll just never admit that he knows.  And that shouldn't matter to you.  He doesn't have to agree for it to all be your truth.  YOU own that - and your desires.

I don't think you'll go back to that bad place again.  That was from discovery and mourning your relationship.  You're under no misconception that you're relationship is fine again.  It may be difficult to go through the steps of separation, but it won't necessarily in and of itself make you depreseed.  It'll more likely free you.

Go to a divorce lawyer.  Figure out what you need to do.  You don't owe him ANYthing at this point.  You can tell him you're getting a divorce when you hand him the papers, if that suits you.  Fuck him, hon.  He's used and abused you.  Stand tall and walk away from this situation with your head held high.  You have that right - TAKE.IT.

Kel
 


You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.
 

July 29, 2016 10:47 am  #3


Re: New here - not new to this .....

wow - that's some scary stuff that you posted there.  It sounds like you're in Europe somewhere...having a drivers license for another country you don't live in would freak me out.  I know it's obviously not common in the US since we aren't surrounded by a bunch of countries we can drive to but it seems more than a bit odd. 

The good thing is that you sound strong.  You sound like you're done with his game and even better, you sound like you've realized his narcissistic manipulations are just that!  Narcissistic manipulations.  You know that nice saying that people say to each other when they want to break up cordially?  It's not you, it's me.  Well....at least you have figured out and can say: it's not me, it's YOU.  I think you have enough proof.  In fact, at this point, why do you need any?  At some point, "I want a divorce" is what you say and it really doesn't matter what the reason is - nor does he deserve a reason.  You can't reason with a narcissist so it won't matter what your reason for wanting one is. 

So your kids are older now and they even realize there's something not right.  They aren't going to hate you or blame your for leaving.  You say you worry about going back to that place where you are questioning yourself and the meds make you feel bi-polar or question yourself.  Well....don't.  You KNOW you're not the crazy one here.  You tried meds, you're off, you know it was the situation that led you to feel the way you felt.  Stay strong, any time you feel like you want to run back, look at your evidence again.  Confide in us and in close friends who can help you keep on track. 

I too got stuck in the cycle of explaining to my ex "why" I want a divorce and then we'd have a three hour conversation about how that made no sense because he wasn't gay.  After about the 15th one of those I had to come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what he thinks and it doesn't matter why I want it, I JUST DO, so shut it and move out of my way.  There is no reasoning with a liar.  And even if you think you are, all you are getting is fooled.

You're doing great!  Keep walking up that mountain.  You're almost to the top.

 

July 29, 2016 5:13 pm  #4


Re: New here - not new to this .....

JKPEace, I have to agree about getting some space. I would also urge you to photograph and keep records, of phone logs, texts, and other things you find. The reason is, when your determination grows weak or you think you must have been mistaken, pull out those pics and remind yourself what he did.

Many, many times I had to go look to convince myself what I found out was real. It wasn't 100% proof but it was plenty for me. I bought A locking briefcase and left it in my car with all the proof and other things I didn't want him taking when he left. Best move I made. It also helped me stay angry enough to move on.

Wishing you strength. Find your power and use it, when you are ready. Don't get stuck.

 

August 1, 2016 9:14 am  #5


Re: New here - not new to this .....

Thank you all for your comments and supportive words

It wont be an easy road ahead - I do need concrete proof in order to confront him because I know how persuasive his lies can be and how he can bulldoze my mind - I realise that sounds so stupid and as if I am a total push over ( which I am not ) - but these borderline / narcissistic personality  individuals are very powerful at mind games - and just reading through various posts here I realise I am not alone in experiencing this - I guess this is what gaslighting is

Because I don't want these to be the facts, I have to be aware not to slip into a false sense of  fooling myself into thinking everything being ok, like a kind of self denial - that is in part why I came here as writing the 'symptoms' down ( and there are plenty I have not written but that I can relate to in other's posts ) is an auto confirmation for myself , and it is one of the reasons I am gathering 'proof'

I am keeping records of phone logs, photos of computer history and other - I keep it in an online account so it cannot ever be found or destroyed

I cannot believe I am living this all over again 9 years later ....

The flip side is of course when he is not acting out he is extremely charming, good company , nice to be around , interesting  ... but it can change instantly with a perceived critical comment .....But I am not prepared to live a lie anymore .....

 

August 1, 2016 9:16 am  #6


Re: New here - not new to this .....

Whoops - that last post was from me - forgot to login in!

     Thread Starter
 

August 17, 2016 2:09 am  #7


Re: New here - not new to this .....

My state has a "no fault" divorce law. If one party says, "the marriage is irretrievably broken," then the divorce proceeds. Proof of messing around is not necessary. Proof of fault is meaningless.

 

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