Gary,

You say that you want to get to a place of no longer being depressed before you make a decision about leaving.  I'm thinking that may not be possible.  It's like wanting the wound to stop festering before you pull the splinter out (because it hurts too much to touch when it's that infected), but without pulling the splinter out, the infection will never heal.  Sometimes you just need to rip the bandaid off.

Kel

I personally wonder what sent you here in the first place, Gary, what drove you to the internet and what you searched for and why. How'd you come across the SSN and what has been your reaction to seeing the pain of straight spouses.  You want very much to present yourself as an ally to straight spouses, not one of those cheating behind the back or denying they're gay or asking for an open marriage gay men, but a victim of circumstance, a man who feels bad about what he's done--and continues to do--to his wife.
  I wonder if your search might be related to your feeling that now that you have fulfilled your oath to yourself to see your kids launched it's time to give yourself what you really want, which is a life of authenticity as the gay man you are.  If that's the case, I'd say that people on this site have given you an unequivocal answer from their own experience: yes, go, and give your wife the rest of her life to seek out the kind of happiness that living in a MOM cannot and has not. I'm not saying there is no happiness in your marriage; but a heterosexual wife who isn't deisred because she is a woman is bathing in a corrosive acid every day you are together.  You continue "to rob her of the opportunity to be loved because she is a woman," because in your fear of leaving your closet and your reluctance to give up your comfortable life you have decided that as a "family man" you are living the life you are "supposed to live."  (I repeat: what life is it that YOUR WIFE is meant to live. Or do you get to make that choice for her, because your need comes first?  And don't come back with that "she had a choice and made her bed" talk; she was probably knocked into next week from shock, and like many of us, operated out of shame, denial, and hope, and remade herself to fit the pattern you cut for her.  Read up on the literature of trauma and abuse.)
   If you're a "family man" I guess you and I have a different definition of family, because I always heard that the best thing a man can do for his children is to love their mother.  And not as a roommate or a sister or a friend or a wife in name only.  (And yes, I get it that you still have sex, although I have a hard time believing it can be very satisfying for either of you.) 
   Perhaps you might ask yourself if you are dressing up some basic cost-benefit analysis--to "be authentic and have to work longer to retire" or "be unhappy and depressed in order to live the comfortable life and retirement that my wife's larger income and retirement can afford us"--in the garb of nobility ("The life I was meant to live"; "I have apologized to her on several occasions").  Maybe this is a cost-benefit analysis that you ought to conduct with your wife, and, as is suggested, you should give her the opportunity to make the decision for herself.  
  And hey, yes, why not have her read your posts and all our replies, and then perhaps she might want to join the thread started for her.  

Last edited by OutofHisCloset (February 20, 2018 5:05 pm)

Hey Kel, I think Sean just provided the evidence you wanted from Duped.  

Gosh...where do I start?  Once again, thank you all for your responses.

​Phoenix...thanks for sticking up for me but I know that JenS and some of the others are correct.  My wife should be here--not me.  I'll say more about that at the end of this post.

​Kel, Walk, and Out.  Kel, you made my case almost better than I and I do appreciate that.  I also value all of your comments.  You've definitely given me some things to think about that I've not entertained before.  

​For those of you that wrote what I call "harsh words".  I thank you as well.  I know that I am deserving of some harsh words for some of the things I think and say and you give me things to think about as well.  However, I think some of you are trying to make me into a bigger villain than I am.  I fully understand where you're coming from.  But let me say this again for the record, I acknowledge that I've done a bad thing that hurt the ones I love more than my own life,  I take full and complete responsibility for it.  I'm not blaming my wife or anyone else for any of my problems.  I'm not making excuses for anything.  I'm not offended by anything anyone has said (wife included).  I've been completely honest in this thread.  You may disagree with my logic, think that my brain is really screwed up (yes, I'll agree with that one) and disagree with how I have handled things, but I have no reason to lie here.  That doesn't help me or anyone else.  I'm really a very nice, kind, funny, and gentle person.  I'm quite sure that you would like if me you knew me TGT notwithstanding.  Most people do.

​I know you've all been very hurt by someone like me.  I get the anger projected at me.  I really do.  If you want to use this thread to get something off your chest about the person who hurt you, feel free to pretend I'm them and give it to me with both barrels.  Perhaps it will be therapeutic.  Maybe I need to hear those words too, whether I like them or not.  I promise not to take offense and I'll give you kind feedback if you'd like.

​Folks, I do ask one favor of you:  That you not be angry with each other over me or my post. I haven't seen that quite yet but some of you are coming close.  Please debate civilly.  I'm not worth being angry at each other.  I realize that I'm a guest here and I do thank you for letting me post.

The reason I've been reading this blog.  A few months ago when I realized that the psychologist didn't have a clue as to how to help me, I googled "gay men married to straight women".  I wasn't expecting much but I was hoping to find someone out there that had a good solution to my problem  I know, I know, there is no good solution; someone always gets hurt, but it was worth a shot.  Anyway, SS was one of the sites that I opened.  I literally wept that night when I read all of your painful stories.  Could I have caused that much pain to my wife?  Although I've tried to lead a life that puts her needs first (yes, I know many of you think I got that wrong), I'm afraid the answer is probably "yes".  I was also encouraged that some of you found ways to cope, lean on one another for support, and have even formed some remote friendships.

​Lyonene:  Oh my goodness.  I can see why you (or whomever this applies to) would be very angry.  No one should have to put up with that for a minute.  I assume that may be a quote from your GEX?  Might I submit that that person has more problems than being a deceitful gay man.  To me that person is just a major fricken a-hole!  However, I will go through some of those things as they pertain to me and my wife.

​1.  My wife has no idea what men I am sexually attracted to.  She doesn't know about anyone I see at the mall, at a sporting event, in the grocery store, at Home Depot, on TV, on the movie screen, at a concert, on the radio.  No one.  The reason for this should be obvious but I guess it isn't to some GHs.  I think it would very disrespectful and hurtful to my wife.  I find it astounding that anyone would tell their spouse that a man has a sexy ass.  Now my wife may see me looking at some men and read my thoughts.  I'm not sure about this and I really don't find all that many men attractive.  To misquote Jerry Seinfeld, 98% of all the men out there are undatable!   In this same vein, months, even years can go by without either of us mentioning TGT.  I don't bring it up often because I know it is uncomfortable for her at the best.  I don't think it's on her mind very much because of this but I could be wrong.

​2.  I do not have Grindr or any other hookup or sex-related app on my phone or my computer.  My wife has the passcode to both and she's welcome to look any time.  I don't go on Craig's List or anywhere else to cruise and certainly don't have any type of ad on it. I don't engage in "sex chat" with anyone.  I'm curious about these things, of course.  I'd be lying if said otherwise but there's nothing to be gained by giving in to that curiosity.

​3.  I don't have any sex toys.  However, many years ago my wife and I had some simple vibrators that we played with together.  They were fun but then I guess they got old or broke down.  I don't see a problem with this as long as both are into it.  If that darn kid would move out so my wife and I could be empty-nesters I'd think about getting us some more but I don't want the daughter to hear buzzing sounds coming from our room!  (That's just a joke.  I love my daughter and I'm going to miss her when she does move)

​4.  When my wife and I have sex, I do my best to enjoy her and only her.  I'll admit that sometimes I fail and gay thoughts seep into my brain but it isn't about anyone in particular.  I genuinely try to honor my wife's efforts at sex.  We don't do it very often but it does happen a few times per year.  ​The frequency is her choice-not mine, but I don't blame her or harass her about it.  I probably wouldn't get excited about making love to a lesbian of I were a straight man.  

​5.  I don't talk about or go to bath houses or gay bars/clubs,  I live in a big city and in general I know the part of town where they are but I don't know anything specific about them.   I'm not quite sure what a hookup event is but I'm sure I don't do that either.  As I hope we've already established, I don't hookup with anyone.

​6.  Pornography.  I am ashamed to say that I do look at porn.  It is infrequent and, yes, my wife knows that I do it on occasion.  She doesn't know the what, when, or where of it and I'm sure she doesn't want to know.  I know I shouldn't do it and it is disrespectful to my wife as well.  This problem cuts across men in all sexual orientations, not just gay men.  That isn't an excuse but we are human with human needs and frailty.

​So what of the wife?  I've been thinking about the things you told me yesterday and reinforced today.  I think, regardless of the depression, I should get a definitive answer to what she wants to do and soon.  I'm still of the belief that she wants us to stay together but I know now I shouldn't assume that.  She sometimes gets upset when we discuss these things (I don't blame her) so I need to find a good time where it isn't going to ruin her work day or keep her up at night.  It may take me a few weeks to do this but I'll report back when it happens.  

​I'll encourage her to go to this blog and read this thread and others.  Knowing her as I do, she'll probably be reluctant to post anything or maybe even come here, but I'll encourage it.

​If you would like to leave a message for "Mrs. Gary"  for her to read when/if she does come here, you are welcome to do so.  Please keep in mind that his is a very intelligent, well-educated, successful professional woman.  Saying things like "you're stupid if you don't leave" or "you're an idiot" really won't help any.  Use good reasoned arguments.

​Well, once again I've rambled on for over an hour so I'll sign off.  Have a good night and a great tomorrow.

Gary says: "​Lyonene:  Oh my goodness.  I can see why you (or whomever this applies to) would be very angry.  No one should have to put up with that for a minute.  I assume that may be a quote from your GEX?  Might I submit that that person has more problems than being a deceitful gay man.  To me that person is just a major fricken a-hole!  However, I will go through some of those things as they pertain to me and my wife"

No, not my gex, just a conglomerate of things that this board (and others) has gone through. Everything from disease to physical abuse has hit this board (and other forums). I merely listed the most common things that crop up.

My appreciation to you, Gary, for understanding I am not attacking you. I am blunt, yes, I pull out the unvarnished truth, yes, but I am not doing so to attack you. I want you (and others that might be reading) to understand the things I have brought up are because those items are straight spouse realities. These are the things discovered in phones, computers, cars, drawers. Eventually truth finds its way and fantasy, oogling, cheating and a plethora of bad behaviors come to light along with items found.

The price paid is usually a marriage, a family, the straight spouses soul. It takes a long while, a lot of work, and rebuilding to become whole again from the massive psychological damage done. Some people don't recover.

My tablet is crying for a charge lol. I'll edit this in a bit and finish it.

Once again, appreciation to you for reading my posts in the spirit intended.

Cont.

Gary, I'm not sure why you view hardball questions as "anger". I can assure you, I have no animosity directed at you. I don't know you. What I am doing is just what I said - hardball questions. As I stated before, the situations I have mentioned are the most common ones encountered on this and other forums. If you view them as "major fricken a-hole" you're in good company. So do the majority of people here. While I understand your response "that person has more problems than being a deceitful gay man", the things I have mentioned are the direct result of that cause. That's a bit simplistic on my part, it would be more complete for me to say I don't believe it's possible to be a deceitful gay man in the closet using others around you as cover, regardless of degree, without being a narcissist.

At any rate, what I hope for you is that you have a realization, an epiphany moment, with truth. If your wife doesn't know you fantasize about men during sex, she doesn't know the truth. If your wife doesn't know about the kind of porn you get off to or the frequency, she doesn't know the truth. If your wife doesn't know you scope out men in public, she doesn't know the truth. If your wife doesn't know you watch movies/tv with her and fantasy focus on Brad Pitt per se, she doesn't know the truth.

I would submit for your consideration that leaving her in the dark about her spouse, you, is very high-handed and manipulative. You have in essence taken choice away from her by merely showing/telling her what you want her to see/know instead of providing her the ability to captain her own ship through life. Most gid spouses reply to this suggestion with "but I don't want to hurt her!" I've observed over the years that this is a way to look concerned, caring, and keep on manipulating. Food for thought.

I believe the old saying the truth sets us free with all my heart. That freedom encompasses the gid and straight spouse.

Last edited by Lyonene (February 21, 2018 2:15 pm)