You are right. It comes down to trust. I am asking him to repair that. if he does, maybe it can work Yes, I have doubts about his infidelity. Two particular incidents I can think of that are too close for comfort. One I posted about already the other was in 2010 but it was a girl, our neighbor. There was some drama going on. He told me a fantastic story that included some things I saw/knew. But I can never know. I desperately want to know for sure. I'm thinking if he wants to work on it, perhaps in therapy he might come clean with infidelity. I just don't know. And then, what if I'm wrong? Maybe there was these extenuating circumstances that looked bad but nothing happened. The breach in trust is that he touched the guy (on the chest) & the girl was in our living room. I never suspected him of fooling around until he started therapy this summer & issues came up. He gave more details that I thought he had never told me but he insisted he had (the girl). The guy (last summer) was different. I saw them in the parking lot talking. He was waiting for me to come out. I noticed a guy standing next to his truck talking. He lied to me at the time bc "he didn't want me to freak out". He told me that he was warning the guy that cross-dressing is dangerous bc if a guy thinks he's a girl & finds out he's not, he could get beat up. He said this guy was putting himself in grave danger & he felt compelled to warn him. I thought this was incredibly strange when I heard it. I dismissed it for the unbelievability. Now that he told me he's bi, that story is very disturbing. I asked him about it several different times. Once when he was in the middle of hard core porn & he admitted that he a) gave 'the look' to signal the guy to come talk to him, b) he touched his chest to see if there was a boob or stuffed bra, c) he was turned on. When I became upset at the lies and told him I believe he did more than he's telling me he became irate. Yes, this is a red flag. But he does that all the time. He rages quite a bit. For instance, disagree with him (& he's in a bad mood) and he will say "Are you calling me a liar!" very menacingly. Even about stupid stuff. So he's always trying to shove his opinion down people's throats. So it's hard to isolate this and say this particular time it means he's lying. Then again, I read here somewhere that you know he's lying because his lips are moving. I guess I'm thinking if I know for sure about that one, then I will know for sure about much more questions I have. And therefore I am very invested in finding out exactly what he did. I won't get that luxury, will I? I am being gullible to believe I need definitive proof or being manipulated perhaps. It's so fantastic to believe. It couldn't be. If he did do something then he has had much more ability to do that earlier in our marriage when the thought of him fooling around seemed way out there. He was unemployed for three years & hung out at the house doing nothing. Or was he doing nothing? I was gone all day and had a 2nd job at night & all day Saturdays. I just wasn't around. I was 100% trusting. He had so much freedom that if I were to find proof that he did more with that guy last summer, I would believe he had done it before, many times. Yes, I'm going to get tested for STDs soon and no I've never come up with one in our marriage. Sean had asked if I knew about his rape before our problems and I forgot to answer that yes, I knew. It was something that drew us together actually. We both had similar childhoods (though I wasn't raped & the abuse was not same sex). It was a theme in his family but no one spoke of the details. His family confirmed abuse talking about painful memories here & there but there was no explanation of exactly what happened. He has given me more details of his life since counseling this summer. Did I never ask these things before? Why didn't he volunteer this information? Why does he deny he said something when I repeat it later? I always feel very convicted, like the criminal, when he says I am remembering something wrong & hurting him with it. Why does it hurt him so if it's not true? He will just get more irate so I do't question further & just sink into I Don't Know Land & probably never will. Is knowing what I know now enough to walk away? I think so but I am not 100% sure. Can I trust him? Nope. But he can fix that if he wants. I told him everything in my life is dead & dying. That it all has to in order for a rebirth, the Phoenix!! "I am doing this with or without you", I said. So either we will come back together in a new completely reinvented HONEST relationship or we won't. Cz when I decide to do something, no one can stop me. I've lived through more hell than this in my lifetime. I've given my own flesh & blood away to another family, openly and 100% by myself, alone (with me & my two kids). Absolutely no support from family that was near. My older sister, the narcissist told me she had to distance herself from me, the unborn child bc she couldn't stand getting attached & having to let go and she'd be unable to deal with it if I changed my mind back & forth. So nice. 

I'm moving along, slowly. Thank you for reading my long posts.

I wish you weren't so right. He said just yesterday that he thinks we should separate so we can stop raging/hurting/triggering each other. I said "you know we can't afford two separate living arrangements". Then, the bomb that I think is proving something you said, came out and I alerted immediately. He said "I can stay with a friend". "Really? What friend? You don't have any friends (his words)", I asked. He said "I can ask someone at work". Today he was talking about a project at work that they are doing for fun bc it has been so slow they've been watching paint dry for about 2 months. He mentioned new people being hired lately for a big job coming up. He always talks about the people at work. But today I paid special attention to him saying he worked with a new person & it seems he likes this person. Very strange as he usually gets along with no one at work. Furthermore, this person is of his ideal male preference, Hispanic (still attracted to men who look just like his step-father, who, by the way, is his youngest sisters real father but he is dead). So, this is the guy he is attracted to and thinking about living with right now. Seems he is making his way out even though he is in total shock and very quiet of late. No sex to speak of since what I mentioned in my last post. Of course, he can blame that on my new job. Weirdly, though, he is watching me like a hawk. Calling, checking up, asking questions & wanting to come with me on the job supposedly for support but I suspect something else. He's watching my moves, my routine? Why? He is being overly sweet and even holding doors for me today?? WTF!! That's a FIRST! He is trying really hard to be supportive to me being successful on my new job. I am wondering what he's up to. Oh yeah, he keeps saying he loves me and waiting for me to say it back too. More than usual.

He's also procrastinated signing the new lease on our place (he was supposed to sign 10/28 but never did). I keep reminding him everyday. If he doesn't we will be charged monthly rate & a late fee per day. Perhaps he's planning to stiff me? God, I hope not.

Reading your post, I am a whole new level of low. But I knew this would be the case. I will be very busy from now and through the holidays. It is my busy season. He will have lots of freedom. I am going to resist checking up on his whereabouts/activities to catch him red handed. That urge is INCREDIBLY strong. Just have to find evidence. I will read this again and I want to tell myself. NO I DON"T have to have anymore proof/evidence. STOP IT. Stop the pain fest SC and have some self-compassion. In fact, drown yourself in compassion every second you can. You will need it tremendously in the next few weeks. Seems this guy is moving really fast now and also in quiet shock.

Thank you Sean. This is my lifeline. I will go to that support group on Thursday night near me. I need to be in self-protection mode 24/7.

 

You are so appreciated, Sean. I'm so glad you're here & sharing your insights. I may start a thread later when I have more privacy.

Good day forum! I'm writing to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. The holidays can be tough for couples, exes, and their children who have struggled with the gay thing, separation, and divorce. Hopefully as more countries like Australia legalize same-sex marriage, we'll have fewer incidents of gay men like me marrying straight women. I've been a member of this forum for just over a year and wanted to express my sincere thanks to the members here. As a gay ex-husband, you could have very easily attacked me for being the enemy. Instead, the straight spouses here were nothing but kind, caring, and thoughtful. So thank you. 

​I now want to address a common theme I've seen among straight spouses living with gay-in-denial partners. It goes something like this: "Yes he watched gay porn, he cheated on me just ​once, hasn't had sex with me in years (and never really seemed interested), and I recently found out he still has a Craigslist account looking for casual encounters. But he says it's all because of childhood abuse and needs me to work through it all. I'm confused because I still LOVE him." 

​Before I provide my opinion, I feel the need to write a disclaimer. I am the poster boy for denial. I denied my homosexuality for 35 years and even married a woman to prove I was straight. I cheated on, lied to, and verbally abused my (then) wife while claiming to "love" her. Even after our divorce, I continued to claim that I loved her during our marriage. It was only a few months ago that I dropped the bullsh*t. Love isn't cheating. Love isn't lies. Love isn't denial. Love isn't empty words, nor broken promises, nor some fake future. Love is being present. Love is desiring my partner now. ​Love is monogamy, honesty, and integrity.

​So what's my point? Whenever I read, "...but I still love him" I often ask the straight spouse to create a relationship constitution. That means finishing the following sentences:

​1. Love for me means...
​2. A good husband (or wife) is...
​
​and then comparing it with their present situation...not some fantasy future "after therapy, post porn addiction, once we pray more...blah blah blah." The comparison is often when straight spouses realize they don't truly love their lying, cheating, and abusive partners. They are in love with a fantasy, a fiction, a person their partners pretended to be at the beginning of the relationship. It takes time, a lot of tears, and often some tough love here, but after finding him on gay sites again, on Craigslist again, and cheating again, reality finally beats denial. He's gay and that isn't going to change.

Once the straight spouse fully accepts their partner is gay, always was gay, and that this will never change, that's when he/she starts to detach emotionally. Then come separation and finally divorce. It's a slow and painful process many of us have been through. The end of a gay/straight relationship is the emotional equivalent of slow-motion falling down stairs. We're falling and yet still fighting gravity by clinging to every banister, step, and wrung. And that slow-motion fall often looks like couples therapy, "opening" your relationship, and accepting a host of other relationship tweaks in some final attempt to have a future together. Most of us have done these things because we so wanted our relationships to work. This is what we've heard our whole lives. After all society, our families, and most of the mental heath community believe we should remain married.      

So what's my point? It takes a lot of time to go from "he cheats on me but I love him" to "he's gay and that's never going to change so I need to move on." So I'd encourage new members to keep sharing here because your first post is often just the beginning of a long journey to freedom. I'd also encourage long-term members to think about how scared and vulnerable we all were when we first plucked up the courage to write that first post. This is why I try to be kind and respectful with new members when I read yet another, "My husband goes to gay saunas but doesn't have sex with anyone" (an actual post I've read). Yes I can shake my head, or perhaps want to shake the person posting this, but then I check myself.

I check myself because not too long ago I spoke the same language: denial. So I encourage the straight spouse to write their own relationship constitution, compare it to the relationship they have now, and then determine whether things are ever going to get better. When things inevitably get worse, as they often do when a gay husband starts acting on his homosexuality, it's painful but she's learning to detach. That's when she can say with confidence, "I know you're gay. I know this relationship will never work. And this is what I'm going to do about it." And I encourage long-term members to keep sharing their own experiences, opinions, and hope. Your posts have certainly helped me to change so again, THANK YOU.  

​Thanks for reading my rambles friends. I wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. 

Last edited by Sean (December 12, 2017 5:49 am)

Q: Hi Sean, just to clear up confusion for me, are you the same Sean as the one who posted here some time ago?

​A: Correct. My previous login, under Séan with an "é", stopped working a few months ago. So I created my current profile which is Sean with a normal "e". I hope I've answered your question. If not, feel free to write again.