OurPath (formerly SSN) Open Forum » Gay or terrified of intimacy? Please help

Chmiddy6 · November 3, 2017 6:09 pm

I am brand new here and I really need a stranger to talk to. We are 24 years old and have been married to my husband for 2.5 years. He is a great man, just want to clarify that. Everything has been great in all other aspects besides being physical and sexual. We are best friends. We love each other. We both come from a Christian background. His dad is very homophobic. When we were dating, things were amazing. He was Christian, I was Christian, he wanted to wait until marriage to have sex, I wanted to wait as well. Dating was not very physical because I thought he was just so involved with his faith. And it was fine with me because I have a hard time being intimate with others due to social anxiety and general anxiety. I felt safe with him because he never pressured me to do anything. We would only peck kiss each other, never make out, cuddle on the couch, hold hands, and hug.. I liked that at first because it was comfortable to me. Two and a half years into dating, I went over to his house and he was laying on his bed crying and said “we need to talk.” He started off by saying, “all I’ve ever wanted was to be a husband and father...” as he is crying. In my mind I subconsciously thought “oh no, he’s gay.” But then he said that he has been struggling with porn for the past few years. I never asked him what kind of porn, I have just assumed it was Woman based porn. The thing I was most devastated at that discovery was that he was getting it off with a computer screen instead of Using his soon to be wife for sex. I was so confused. I think I am an attractive woman. I’m normal weight, have long brown hair, and an hour glass figure. But knowing that he watched porn made me feel ugly. The haunting question was why didn’t he use me for sex? I learned to forgive him and he promised me that he would not watch porn anymore so he wouldn’t hurt me. I believe in my gut that he stopped watching it from that day forward. So anything that I felt was odd physically and sexually, I always suspected the reason for it was because he screwed up his brain with porn. That has always been my go-to reasoning. We dated for three years, had sex, and then were married 2 months later. I was a virgin before meeting him so I didn’t really know what sex is supposed to be like. Our first sex encounter it took us over two hours to finish. He gave up and finished off by masturbating. I chalked it up to him just being nervous and his brain being porn driven. And I didn’t orgasm either because of being nervous. That was that. I think it was exciting for both of us. We were in our honeymoon stage. Sex was new and fun. I remember him saying, “turn on the light, I want to see you.” That felt great. Now it’s different and now I’m on this website questioning everything. We have sex about twice a week but I always initiate. He never does ever. He said he doesn’t initiate because he’s afraid I will say no. I would never do that unless I was sick or something. I told him that, he said okay. Still never initiates: the way we have sex is very to the book and vanilla. We don’t kiss each other. (Making out kind of freaks me out because of germs) but he is okay with that too, why is he okay with that? I start by touching his body and junk, he doesn’t ever touch me. We get him hard, and he gets on top of me and holds me really close, and looks to the side, we have missionary sex, he cums, I orgasm most of the time, and then he goes to bed. No cuddling. That upsets me because I tell him I need more physical touch. When he does cuddle me he’s very stiff and I can tell he doesn’t like it. I told him that last night and he said I was needy. I told him that if I didn’t ask for touch, we would never touch. He says that’s how he was raised. I believe that because his family isn’t physically loving at all. So that’s what I concluded that to be. But I’m still here on this website. One time, I asked him, do you want to try a different position? And he said “I don’t care.” And I said, “I wonder what doggy style would feel like” And he said, “no I would never do that to you.” As if that position is dirty or something. I hate that he doesn’t care. At the start I used to would occasionally be on top but then half way through he would flip me over and I would be on bottom face to face. This summer my bitchy friend said, “why are you attracted to him? I think he’s gay.” And I said, “well we have sex.” And she said, gay guys can have sex with woman too.” That’s when I started to notice different things. He is not homophobic but he does talk about our gay friends and seems interested in them more than I am. (Could just be in my mind though) The other night he was on Snapchat and said, “do you think so and so is gay? He’s in Vegas at a gay bar. I think he’s gay because he’s homophobic..” I said why do you care so much? He said I don’t know and I said “you’re just into drama aren’t you? He said yes. I have my gay best friend staying at our house for a few months. We are very close to him and love him. Sometimes we massage each other before bed because it feels great and why not? He has been my best friend since kindergarten. Well, yesterday my husband was in his underwear (because why not we are at home) and he was massaging my gay friends shoulders but occasionally would look down at his own crotch( I think to make sure he didn’t have a boner). Is he attracted to him or is he making sure just because massages feel nice and he could pop one? He tries to be loving but a few days later it fades. It makes me sad because I want to feel sexy and loved but I don’t feel that way. Sorry this is so long. Feels great to write it all out. Thank you.

Abby · November 4, 2017 6:53 am

Welcome to this message board. So much of what you describe is similar to my own marriage almost 40 years ago. Religious upbringing. No intercourse before marriage. No petting. Him never initiating after marriage. My feeling of something not being right. Thinking it was me.

Having a third person living in your house for several months may not be a good idea, particularly someone you know is gay and you thinking your husband may be. It is allowing each of you to have touching while avoiding the fact that it isn't happening with your spouse. I think therapists call this "triangulation". You ARE being pushed aside by your husband but you are able to blunt the feelings that causes by meeting your need for touching elsewhere. This postpones both of you acknowledging that your marriage is having a rocky start,

In my case I pushed us into marriage counseling with the pastor at the church we had joined. My husband eventually said he was "bi" but wanted only me and would not act on any outside urges he might have. I stayed. We had our children. Sex ended and eventually with a larger house I moved into a separate bedroom to lessen the pain. Our children grew up, his parents died, gay become more acceptable and he spent more time with his gay friends until he found the love of his life and wanted a divorce after 30+ years.

I did not realize until he moved out how much I had suppressed myself to remain married all those years. Rather than trying to figure out if he is gay or not ask yourself if your can live the rest of your life with this lack of intimacy. You may come to the conclusion that I finally did as he careened into his sexual future - "Whatever he is he isn't for me."

phoenix · November 4, 2017 8:58 am

Welcome Chmiddy,

I'm glad you found this site and signed up and had the courage to share. At the same time, I'm sorry you are here as well because it means you have some real fears about your husband and you are not being fulfilled in an important aspect of your marriage.

Lots to talk about here so I'm going to address some of the things that jumped into my mind as I read your post.

- There are studies that say that pornography can harm a person's ability to function intimately with a real person. From what i've read there are very rare cases of this, but when it does happen, it's with someone who starts out as a heavy porn user from a very young age.. like a 13 year old who is just learning about sexual attraction and skips straight to hard-core porn. So, just to be fair, there is a small chance that you are correct about his porn use being part of the equation. But I don't think this is the case. I think you have compelling evidence that says your husband is gay.

- When we are in love with someone we are naturally optimistic and supportive of them. We want our marriage to be healthy and successful. We do not want to face the possibility of there being a landmine that would destroy our relationship... so it is natural for us to give credibility to an excuse to explain the problem. We bury our head in the sand and chose to believe there is a good reason rather than a bad one. I did it for 16 years.. I ignored glaring evidence because I didn't want to deal with the possibility. So your choice to believe that porn use is the cause of your broken intimacy is likely the same as I was doing. You chose to believe it because you don't want to believe the alternative.

- I met my Ex through a religious club in college. We went to a local church together, did Bible studies, etc.. We were very well aligned spiritually (I thought). We both professed that we wanted to wait to have sex until marriage. She even told me that she was scared that if we kissed on the lips and "made out" that neither of us would have the strength to avoid going too far.. so she asked me if our first kiss could be at our wedding. I agreed to it and we were able to keep that agreement. Sounds familiar to you so far I bet. But guess what.. I was still a heterosexual man and had a strong physical attraction. At age 22, I can't imagine any single hetero man being able to keep his hands off an attractive female he is in love with. So, while we were able to avoid making out and avoid actually having sex, there was no way I was going to be able to have zero contact. So I pushed the limits of what petting we could do without going past the agreements we had made. It took immense strength to put those brakes on and keep things in line with what we had agreed to (for me). She however seemed to have no trouble keeping her hands to herself. She would tolerate me touching her but never returned the touch. I thought it was because she had a lot of restraint. In truth it was more likely that she knew if I had no physical attention I wouldn't want to date her.
The reason I share my experience with you is to tell you that there are very few young straight men in the world who can wait until marriage for sex. But even then, they still have to manage their sexual desires and they are going to want some contact. The fact that your husband didn't want to make out with you or touch you fits perfectly with the idea that he is gay.

- Gay people can still have straight sex. This is true. It's a concept we've talked about on this forum a lot of times in the past. A young man typically has a very strong sex drive. You know the stereotypes in modern culture. (like the apple pie concept from the movie). A young gay man can still get erect and still have sex with a woman because it's SEX. There is still intimacy. There is still a stimulation of his genitals and a chance to climax. At a young age, this is still new and exciting just because it's sex.

Plus, there is another important dynamic happening here.. A young gay man who is potentially having sex with a girl WANTS to be able to have sex with her. So even if he isn't really interested, he's going to try his best to make it happen. He's likely using his imagination to help the process as well. If a gay man is in a situation where he is getting intimate with a girl.. it's because he's in the closet and is trying to be straight. He wants the world to think he's hetero. He wants that girl to think he's hetero... and he wants to be hetero. Did you get that last part.. He is trying to be heterosexual. Most gay people in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex are actually attempting to be straight. They don't want to be gay. They don't want to be discriminated against. They don't want their families to be disappointed in them. They don't want to be a minority who is hated and potentially harmed by some people in society. So they try to convince themselves they can be straight. If they weren't trying to be straight.. they would be with another gay person, not with us.
So.. can a gay man have sex with a woman.. yes. Especially at a young age and when they are still trying to convince themselves they are straight.

Is your husband gay? I think yes. I'll share why I think this based on what you have shared.
- He never instigates sex. A normal young, straight man would be instigating sex all the time. Think about stereotypes in society about this.. they exist for a reason. Most men's sexual desire peaks in their early 20's. Women usually in their mid-to-late 30's. There is a reason for the stereotype about young men being the aggressor or instigator of sex most often. If he doesn't instigate it, he doesn't want it.
- He uses porn. The fact that he admitted to porn tells me that he has a sex drive. That seems obvious right? If he has a wife who is attractive and she desires him, he should naturally want to be with her. If he's looking at porn, it's because there is something it offers that his wife does not. Most men who admit to porn use say that they do it because they feel desire for something that their wife is not fulfilling for them. Some guys want a greater frequency of sexual release than there wife will accept, so they turn to porn when their wife turns them down. Some guys want a type of stimulation that their wife will not offer.. maybe they are into fantasy or fetish and their wife doesn't like it, so they get that from porn instead.
Based on your story it doesn't seem like there is anything that would make your husband feel like you aren't giving him and would cause him to seek porn to get that fulfillment. Right? You want it more than he does.. you are willing to be more adventurous, but he's the one who keeps thing vanilla? But he still turned to porn to get his sexual fulfillment??? The logical conclusion is that you can't offer him a male anatomy and that is the part that he desires and isn't getting from you.. hence the porn.
- We touched on it above.. but the robotic aspect of your sex also tells me he's gay. A straight man and a straight woman who are sexually excited about each other will enjoy a certain type of sex for a while, but after a bit it can get repetitive.. so it's natural to want to try new things. That's not to say that the missionary position isn't still enjoyable.. it's still a great thing.. but trying something a little different is a way to further explore and bring new and exciting things into that intimacy. Not every has to do this of course.. but it's normal to do. Think of the huge industry around sexual exploration.. (toys, costumes, kama sutra, fetishes, etc..) Not everyone is into all of these things of course.. it depends on personal preference. But I think it's safe to say the following: A normal straight person will at some point want to try something other than missionary position.

- your first experience required him to finish manually? Most guys are done way too soon. In fact I bet most women would say that's a trend that continues most of their lives. But especially on the first experience. Most guys are so excited about their first try at what they are anatomically and emotionally programmed to do, that they are simply unable to prevent climaxing too early.

- When our friends have the courage to tell us that they think our spouse is gay.. it's usually a good sign.

- Interest in gay friends. My ex was very awkward around straight women, but felt right at home with lesbian women. In fact, in the last few years of our marriage her circle of friends was almost exclusively lesbian women. It's a comfort level.. All of us feel more comfortable with people we share similarities. This would be especially true for a closet homosexual. They live a naturally uncomfortable life because they are hiding a HUGE secret about themselves. They are constantly scared of being found out.. and they try very hard to fit with other straight people. So the opportunity to spend time with other gay people is naturally more comfortable for them.

- massaging another gay man? I bet your husband was VERY receptive to having your gay friend come stay with you wasn't he? There is a reason for that. Listen.. straight men almost never massage another man.. unless there is a viable excuse to do it without being accused of being gay. There is an unwritten rule with straight men.. they NEVER do something that would make other guys think they are gay. They might joke about it.. but it would be a very clear joke.
Example... if one of my friends was hanging out at my house and suddenly his face showed pain and he started moving his shoulder as though he was in pain and had a cramp and then said "ouch I have a cramp in my shoulder".. then I'd consider doing him a favor and helping work that cramp out of his shoulder for him by massaging the muscles. In this case, I'd be doing him a favor, performing a medically necessary service. That would make it acceptable and keep that unwritten rule about not being seen as gay. But I wouldn't think of just randomly giving another guy a massage of any kind unless there was a clear need for it. Oh.. and doing so in my underwear.. OMG NO.. We don't even walk around in our underwear around other men at all.. even if its our home. No straight guy ever touches another man if either of them are in their underwear. Again.. that unwritten rule.. Massaging another man while wearing only underwear.. now way!!! That's something only a gay man would do.

Anyway.. hope my thoughts and reasoning helps you a little bit.

Keep sharing and posting and asking questions. We are here to help.

Chmiddy6 · November 4, 2017 1:55 pm

Thank you Abby and Phoenix for the replies. I tried to talk to him more about it last night. I said that there is something lacking in the physical/sexual department and that I don’t think he finds me attractive. He pretty much said, “I think you are beautiful.. Even if I was more affectionate, I think you would still have these bad thoughts about yourself. You need to learn to love yourself” He’s putting blame on me. That it’s my problem that my self esteem is dropping because my husband can’t love me in a way I desperately feel I need. I realize that this is not normal.

OutofHisCloset · November 4, 2017 2:45 pm

What he's doing is called "blame shifting." If he can make the problem yours, then he can continue to deny that he is not attracted to you as a woman but to men. And whether he does it deliberately or as a reflex to protect himself from what he doesn't want to admit about himself doesn't make it any less psychologically devastating to you. So many women here have written about the years and years in which they internalized this message and others like it.

Chmiddy6 · November 5, 2017 12:23 pm

I also know that he has a high sex drive, if we don’t have sex, I know that he masturbates in the bathroom and when I’m not home (the hand towel is always in the laundry basket when he does). It’s just confusing. I concluded that to be that it’s easier to do a quickie handjob than it is to prepare for sex but now I’m seeing that he just isn’t really that interested in my body. He gives me the occasional glance down but that’s it. There is something I’m not giving him that he wants or desires. I now wish I would have had sex with him in the beginning of the relationship so I could see that aspect of it but that is what religion prevents people from doing. Before we had sex, I knew in my heart that that was the only thing I was lacking from the relationship. I wanted to love him in all the ways I possibly could and now I feel crushed that he doesn’t desire me as much as I desire him.
Phoenix, I too always thought it was weird how much self control he had when I would stay the night! How could he not touch this woman next to him? That’s all I could think about when I slept over. I did not sleep well because of my imagination.

Last edited by Chmiddy6 (November 5, 2017 12:26 pm)

Abby · November 5, 2017 1:39 pm

Before I had a separate bedroom my husband would avoid sex by hanging out in the bathroom until I fell asleep. Probably was masturbating in there but I didn't figure that out until much later.

The second man in my life has been totally different. Likes touching me. Loves getting me aroused. Enjoys sex with me. And we are in our 60's.

If your husband doesn't want sex with you at 24 it isn't going to get any better.

Kel · November 5, 2017 9:41 pm

This sounds so much like my own story with my gay ex. And yes, I do think he's gay. But the bottom line is that this is what life is going to be like for the next 50 years with him. If he isn't interesting if giving what you need and want now, he's not likely to become more eager to do so as the years go on. He will become more and more complacent as you continue to put up with it and stay married anyway.

I didn't know my ex was gay until after I told him I wanted a divorce. He rarely/never initiated, either. He would sometimes respond if I initiated, but I could count on one hand the number of times he initiated. And despite my high self-esteem, it DID drag my self-image down into the dirt as he continued to reject me. And no, cuddling doesn't make you "needy". Jeez. He's totally blame-shifting there, and it's NOT cool.

I know you don't want to hear this, but run. Run like your hair's on fire. Or you'll turn around 15 years and 3 kids from now, and realize you can't take any more of this lack of intimacy - no matter WHAT it's due to. And then you'll need to worry about splitting all the assets and telling your children and breaking up the family. RUN.

Kel

Chmiddy6 · November 7, 2017 4:30 pm

I may also add that I am in my first trimester of pregnancy with our first child. I’ve been living in denial that anything was wrong in the relationship. I also didn’t know what to compare it to since I have never had sex with any other man. This just isn’t right. I’m smart enough to know that now. I am hurting inside but I’m also hurting for my husband. If he is gay, I can see why he is doing what he is doing. He doesn’t want to be gay if he is. I think he’s in denial that there is a problem. Do you think there is a way that I could help him see what is goIng on with him? I do not hate him for this. He is a great guy otherwise. He tries really hard to take care of me in other ways. I don’t want to see him crash and burn if I decide I don’t want a marriage with him.

Daryl · November 7, 2017 8:03 pm

I don't think you can make him see anything if he really doesn't want to. All I think you can do is be kind and be honest. People make choices and sometimes we can't direct them, even when we think they are heading for trouble. Take care of yourself and that little life inside you.

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November 3, 2017 6:09 pm #1

Gay or terrified of intimacy? Please help

November 4, 2017 6:53 am #2

Re: Gay or terrified of intimacy? Please help

November 4, 2017 8:58 am #3

Re: Gay or terrified of intimacy? Please help

November 4, 2017 1:55 pm #4

Re: Gay or terrified of intimacy? Please help

November 4, 2017 2:45 pm #5

Re: Gay or terrified of intimacy? Please help

November 5, 2017 12:23 pm #6

Re: Gay or terrified of intimacy? Please help

November 5, 2017 1:39 pm #7

Re: Gay or terrified of intimacy? Please help

November 5, 2017 9:41 pm #8

Re: Gay or terrified of intimacy? Please help

November 7, 2017 4:30 pm #9

Re: Gay or terrified of intimacy? Please help

November 7, 2017 8:03 pm #10

Re: Gay or terrified of intimacy? Please help

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