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October 7, 2021 6:12 am  #11


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

Thank you all for your thoughts and comments, you are right Rob the hugs feel as real as anything I have felt in a very long time. I am sending them back all your ways, the more I read all of your stories the more I realise how many beautiful innocent people have been effected by this issue and despite this being a place of sad stories and hurt people, it is even more of a place of hope and love and support, I am so pleased to have found you all.

As for narcissism I never thought of my wife as a narcissist, in fact if I am completely honest I didn't even know what one was. But I listened to Ryan King's pod cast yesterday and was dumbstruck by a couple of things he said. Firstly that he didn't realise he was being narcissistic until after everything had ended and he spent time reading and hearing the stories of many of those affected by this, it made him realise that much of his behaviour had indeed been narcissistic.
The other point he made which came as a shock was that he thought nothing of his wife’s feelings at any point during or since, he was only really interested in his own self and situation. I find this most upsetting as it would appear on the surface that my wife does love me and care for my feelings, but I am now beginning to realise that this is to some extent connected with what she is thinking and doing, or planning to do than my actual feelings.
Thanks for your list of actions I can do and plan Longway, thinking about practical things that will make the next steps easier is something I have been putting off, and it is good to have some guidance for when I get the courage together. I am lucky in that I have lots of things I like to do and will try to focus on getting out and doing them over the coming months, something I think we have all been struggling with in these strange times.
Elle this is exactly what I do on a continual basis, reading your post reminds me of this cycle, I go through it over and over again, and I still can’t help myself start again every time. I must stop this, but I think I am going to have to work up to it…. I feel like if I had definitive proof or I could get her to come out everything would be fine, I could help and support her through what she is dealing with, and at the same time work on my own future without her in the knowledge that it will be okay for both of us, but I am guessing you all felt this right? I still love my wife dearly and the thought of leaving her to deal with what is going on with her on her own is very difficult.
For me Lily the anger comes regardless of my behaviour, if I stay calm it is only a matter of time before she gets angry in order to stop the conversation, and if I get angry she may go either way, sometimes I am allowed to rant at her silence after which she will often say nothing and walk away, or she will fight and try to turn things around so that I feel the conversation is not necessary, I am making problems where there aren’t any, and ultimately that it’s all my fault. I know now that this is simply a tactic for her to avoid confronting the reality, and most importantly to enable her to stay in this relationship so that she doesn’t have to face her real self. I guess I have learnt that narcissism comes in different forms to different extents in each case, and I suspect all of our X’s or partners have exhibited it at different times through the journey. And your comment about other people saying how you couldn’t end your relationship as it/he is so good really resonates with me, all our friends and family think we are the perfect couple. I guess part of the way our relationship has evolved has also meant I have inadvertently learnt to act like everything is okay as it is so hard to discuss and expose amongst family and friends.
Something else Ryan talked about that pricked my ears up was the fear and hurt he was feeling as a closeted gay man, Ryan says he knew from 6 or 7 years old that he was not interested in girls, and he has lived with that all his life, he didn’t come out until he was in his forty’s and lived with the fear of being gay and not being able to talk about it, or live it, and so became a professional cover up artist, by the time he started having relationships with women in order to keep the cover up going he was an expert, when it came to conversations like the one we are talking about here, he had years of experience of avoidance, blame change and placing guilt where it would be most effective, as he puts it ‘she didn’t stand a chance!

Today I am feeling stronger, only a touch and I’m still not ready for anything, but I am taking energy from that feeling, thank you all….
 

 

October 7, 2021 7:56 am  #12


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

Small steps every day.

You know your partner better than us, but I personally doubt you can help her 'come out'. There has to be a willingness, on her side, to work on things. I just don't see any evidence of that, in what you've told us.

Be well.
 


“The future is unwritten.”
― Joe Strummer
 

October 7, 2021 3:39 pm  #13


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

My comments in red

fiddlesticks wrote:

Elle this is exactly what I do on a continual basis, reading your post reminds me of this cycle, I go through it over and over again, and I still can’t help myself start again every time. Yes!...this is exactly how it was for me. I could see the pattern, feel the pattern of my distress starting within me but the emotional switch would turn on every time and away I'd/we'd go....arguing, shouting, so upsetting...with me unable to stop myself from initiating or joining in

I must stop this, but I think I am going to have to work up to it….you've got it Sticks these events and my reaction to them took a while to pinpoint, acknowledge, process and finally sort through my reactions and decide how to deal with it. I found my thoughts had to be clear/not muddled by emotion so I could actually see what was happening during one of the emotional times.   

I feel like if I had definitive proof or I could get her to come out everything would be fine, I could help and support her through what she is dealing with, and at the same time work on my own future without her in the knowledge that it will be okay for both of us, but I am guessing you all felt this right? I know *I* felt this. But not for long, because we're not in their heads and don't see or feel what they're seeing or feeling right? Yes your wife would probably accept your help and compassion but she's totally Mindfucked your r'ship. Remember you're important, don't help her to the detriment of your own mental health. I still love my wife dearly and the thought of leaving her to deal with what is going on with her on her own is very difficult. Hold on to that feeling but remember it may not last

Today I am feeling stronger, only a touch and I’m still not ready for anything, but I am taking energy from that feeling
You're on a road, it's a long one, many bumps with a few deep potholes. We're walking with you
 

Elle


KIA KAHA                       
 

October 7, 2021 9:22 pm  #14


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

You might want to read the latest blog post on the main site. "Do The Thing".


“The future is unwritten.”
― Joe Strummer
 

October 8, 2021 5:58 am  #15


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

Hello everyone,

I have been away from the board for a while as I have discovered a closed support group on Facebook. These are real people who like me, have and are having similar experiences. There is a mutual bond between us and it does include social meet ups. Perhaps there is something similar for you fiddlesticks where you are located. 
 One thing I have noticed is that our situations are similar in a way. I spent years and years trying to understand what had gone so fundamentally wrong in our relationship. I looked at myself as the obvious cause and tried to change so much, that I actually forgot who I was on the way. The frequent bouts of abuse I faced were the projected anger of someone at odds with themselves. There comes a point where the lesbian self realisation washes over the women to be accepted as the new self identity. When this happens there is a genuine excitement about this new world of opportunity and a desire to reject the old world. Frequently, the male partner becomes a reminder of the old self and is then summarily rejected. The problems really start when there are two personas at play in the lesbian wife. She is still married, she may still be a mother and still has a need for a Father to be around. This results in a closeted gay woman, who may be afraid of judgement to the point where the husband becomes a necessary “beard” to maintain a level of social status and acceptance. 
 My wife has always possessed core masculine traits in her personality. In order for her to feel emotionally satisfied in an intimate relationship she needs to feel completed by interacting physically and emotionally with femininity. She is essentially femininity deficient and can only complete this part of her self by feeding on feminine energy from another. I cannot provide this for her, because my own masculine energy in the manifestation of my physical and emotional needs are at odds with her’s. My own desires can only be realised and sated by interaction with femininity. She does not feel like a fully actualised woman because she is deficient in femininity. She can present as feminine in public, and appear to be such. But, inside she is not comfortable with herself. The physical acts In homosexuality are a smokescreen that hides the true motive. To complete that essential part of one’s self by joining with another emotionally to take what you lack. Feminine lesbians look toward the masculine energies and behaviours of more masculinised women to meet this need. 
Male homosexuals fall into similar categories. They may have a deep down lack of confidence in their own masculinity that they can only feel by taking that from another man. The man who is receiving the sexual act from him, is submissively surrendering  his own masculinity which puts him touch with his own predominant femininity. This essentially feminine man's needs are nourished by his submission to anothre's masculinity. The ultimate expressions of what I like to think of as Gender Realisation would be in those who are trans. No matter how hard they search, they cannot feel there true self until they become either male or female. It is the only way they can self-actualise. There is nothing wrong with you, or what you need. You have your own masculine energy that requires the mutual nourishment found by forming a physical and emotional bond with femininity. You will find this in a heterosexual woman and she will thank you for it.
I have thought long and hard on this subject in trying to understand homosexuality and why certain individuals present in this way. The increase in the number of homosexuals in society has little to do with more generalised acceptance and more to with gender confusion. As feminism has closed the gap between men and women over the years, it has also blurred the lines of Gender Realisation. Men are not the same as they were fifty years ago. They are encouraged to "get in touch" with their feminine sides. Women, likewise have become more masculinised to the point where many now need to seek out femininity to satisfy self actualisation.

As the famous retort of lovers down the ages would have it. "You complete me"

4973 days...

Last edited by Ordinary guy (October 8, 2021 6:15 am)


And now here is my secret, a very simple secret. It is only with the heart that one can see clearly that which is essential is invisible to the eye.
 

October 8, 2021 6:12 am  #16


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

Yes, that’s it, that’s what was lacking, always lacking, but him being BI. I personally couldn’t ever nail it down. But this explanation ‘nails down’, in my opinion. Thank you for sharing.

Last edited by longwayhome (October 8, 2021 6:13 am)


I never cease to wonder at the cruelty of this land, but it seems a time of sadness is a time to understand, is it mine, oh lord is it mine, when everything is dark ….. Roger Hodgson. 
 

October 8, 2021 6:19 am  #17


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

longwayhome wrote:

Yes, that’s it, that’s what was lacking, always lacking, but him being BI. I personally couldn’t ever nail it down. But this explanation ‘nails down’, in my opinion. Thank you for sharing.

Hi Longway,

Hope you are well! I have missed you X

He was trying to meet his feminine needs and masculine needs to become a complete self. It had nothing to do with physical pleasure seeking at a deep level. He was masculine deficient and could only come to you after taking this from another man.


And now here is my secret, a very simple secret. It is only with the heart that one can see clearly that which is essential is invisible to the eye.
 

October 8, 2021 7:08 am  #18


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

Yes,  thank you OG, we’ve missed you too.

In all areas of life, not just in the bedroom, lack of masculine traits/energy.  I think that energy, we feel from them gets communicated to us via our intuition. Maybe?

Last edited by longwayhome (October 8, 2021 7:20 am)


I never cease to wonder at the cruelty of this land, but it seems a time of sadness is a time to understand, is it mine, oh lord is it mine, when everything is dark ….. Roger Hodgson. 
 

October 8, 2021 7:53 am  #19


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

longwayhome wrote:

Yes, thank you OG, we’ve missed you too.

In all areas of life, not just in the bedroom, lack of masculine traits/energy. I think that energy, we feel from them gets communicated to us via our intuition. Maybe?

The Spidey sense that something doesn’t feel right. Yep, if the energy is wrong you can feel it.


And now here is my secret, a very simple secret. It is only with the heart that one can see clearly that which is essential is invisible to the eye.
 

October 8, 2021 12:17 pm  #20


Re: How do I escape from this nightmare? And then where do I go?

Hi OG,  nice to see you.  interesting post.  here are my thughts -

If you are married to a femme then you have a sexual compatibility of dominant/submissive - a masculine/feminine match and that emotional component is there but at heart remains the mismatch of orientation.  She can close her eyes as much as she likes but it is still a man she sees across the breakfast table in the morning.

And then there's the situation where the man is married to a closeted masculine lesbian.    

I think it helps to make that distinction - it doesn't shift around either, despite the levelling out of chemistry that happens as we age.

And Hi Fiddlesticks, I meant to reply earlier - the thing I can't help thinking about is that for a gay child growing up, it is likely one of their parents is a closet gay and how hard that would be.  But I hope that you realise it is time to put your sympathies on you now.  How you feel.

wishing you all the best  Lily

Last edited by lily (October 8, 2021 12:20 pm)

 

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