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August 20, 2021 2:01 pm  #1


Female behavioural red flags

This is not a diagnostic tool and is purely the result of personal experience. It should be construed as a list of behaviours that could and may be indicative of a non heterosexual identity in females in relationship to heterosexual males. Every individual is unique and many may be in self denial and actually unaware of their true sexual orientation due to expectations placed upon them from a heteronormative society. Understanding goes both ways, and many LGBTQA+ members of society still feel the need to remain “closeted” in order to be accepted in society as a whole. This places them in a situation where they may feel the need to conform and attempt to live life through a heterosexual relationship.  This can lead to major emotional trauma for the LGBTQA+ partner and often more especially for the straight partner who’s  own belief structure and self esteem can be severely compromised. Many “closeted” individuals are aware of their LGBTQA+ identities and will mask their identity in order to enjoy what they perceive to be a normal heterosexual relationship. Unfortunately, in this scenario there may be a causal relationship with personality disorders which can have a major impact on the relationship. The straight spouses in this situation suffer from a form a grief that is particular to them alone. A revelation from the LGBTQA+ partner, or an exposure by the straight partner effectively ends not only the existing terms of a relationship, but also calls into question the shared past. The straight spouses are often left to mourn both the loss of a loved one who still lives, but also the relationship they were personally totally invested in.

Pre-relational indicators

Unusual partner selection in past relationships, including attempted relationships with highly effeminate men or men who subsequently identified as gay. These men are often retained as close platonic friends.

Lack of traditional flirting behaviours with males. Seeming to be somewhat awkward or confused by male attention.

Difficulty in addressing partner selection. Preferring to partner with males who have been the subject of attraction by a friend or confidant.

Taking the lead in a relationship. Departing from traditional gender roles, and pursuing a male partner.

Not wanting to go out as a group and always preferring to be alone with their partner.

Moving relationship quickly to commitment when male attention is secured.

Relationship indicators

Lack of physical intimacy outside of the sexual act.

Lack of emotional intimacy, unable to be open about their feelings while in the relationship.

Refusal to engage in public demonstrations of affection. Often appearing to be self-conscious about kissing, hand holding and cuddling in the public gaze.

Sexual act is often perfunctory and unlikely to be initiated or spontaneous.

Sexual interest is heightened after time spent out with friends (Girl’s night out).

Dresses down and avoids wearing feminine clothing and make-up unless there is a special occasion. Will often voice discomfort when “made-up” in public.

Use of non-gender specific pronouns where the usage seems out of place or context.

Enjoys watching same sex attraction TV and film. Seems to avoid, and or dislike traditional hetero-romantic TV and films. May exhibit almost homophobic avoidance of shows and films featuring Lesbian relationships and seems to prefer shows featuring male to male homosexual relationships as these seem to be acceptable.

Frequency of sexual activity drops without obvious cause and they often employ avoidance techniques.

Prefers to spend time with female friends over time spent with her partner.

Prefers to control as many aspects of the relationship as possible and frequently takes an opposite stance to the male partner.

Dislikes, or refuses to be submissive during the sexual act. Prefers to be in control as much as possible.

Does not like to be seen naked by their partner and would rather have the “light off” during sex.

Will not accept and meet male eye contact during sex. Will close the eyes or look away.

Eventual “bed death” without satisfactory explanation or willingness to attempt rectification.

General reluctance to improve relationship. Seems to be OK with the current status.

May have a particularly close friend who appears to be confidant and they seem to be willing to do anything for.

Starts to hide phone text conversations and contacts. Phone always left face down and goes everywhere with them.

Observation of unusual behaviours by the male partner are often met with projected violent responses.

Partner is often vilified in conversation with others, or their opinions are completely disregarded. A bit like living with the Devil’s Advocate.

Physical contact is completely avoided and the male partner is left feeling confused and shamed by his sexual interest in his partner. This often follows shortly after the birth of a child when the biological need for the male partner has been met.

 


And now here is my secret, a very simple secret. It is only with the heart that one can see clearly that which is essential is invisible to the eye.
 

August 21, 2021 8:14 am  #2


Re: Female behavioural red flags

In my opinion, these are signs of a lesbian.

 

August 23, 2021 12:26 pm  #3


Re: Female behavioural red flags

These right here resonated loudly with me. I didn't see them as warnings at the time but now reading them in a list they seem so obvious:

Not wanting to go out as a group and always preferring to be alone with their partner.

Prefers to spend time with female friends over time spent with her partner.

Will not accept and meet male eye contact during sex. Will close the eyes or look away.

Sexual act is often perfunctory and unlikely to be initiated or spontaneous.


Sexual interest is heightened after time spent out with friends (Girl’s night out).


 

 

September 7, 2021 9:16 pm  #4


Re: Female behavioural red flags

These resonate with me. Thank you for creating this OrdinaryGuy.

The below also might be of interest, which are anecdotes collected from personal stories on these forums:
The Big List of Red Flags
 

Last edited by Upside (September 7, 2021 9:21 pm)

 

September 8, 2021 6:11 am  #5


Re: Female behavioural red flags

Upside wrote:

These resonate with me. Thank you for creating this OrdinaryGuy.

The below also might be of interest, which are anecdotes collected from personal stories on these forums:
The Big List of Red Flags
 

Hi Brother,

I have been through your posts today (not in a creepy snooping way!) and I realise that I should have put in this effort before compiling my list. What you have had to endure in comparison to me makes me feel slightly ashamed of my own pain. To have come through the trials and tribulations that you have faced frankly humbles me and also gives me a sort of hope that even still, some happiness can be found. Not only have you had to come to terms with the betrayal of your sexuality, you have also looked into the face of a lying, selfish and deceitful person who has manipulated your heart and soul. The common denominator we have is the child. Without the child my life would be empty, but I would simply divorce her and move on. It is the presence of children in these relationships that is the complicating factor that others need to understand as the reason why as straight spouses we do not put our own happiness first and foremost. 

I noticed in one of your posts that you mentioned a palpable shift following the birth of your child. I also experienced this “feeling” that I couldn’t seem to equate to anything tangible at the time. It makes sense in a rather sobering way when you think about it. The biological need has been satisfied and the discard phase begins with both physical and emotional rejection. Over the years I have ignored the red flags waved enthusiastically at my face with my understanding of how confirmation bias works on a psychological level. What I started to do was not to look for “obvious” evidence or clues that may indicate a “shift” in orientation, but rather the absence of what I would regard as heterosexual behaviour. Essentially I tried to find ways to convince myself that she was genuinely heterosexual and therefore flip confirmation bias on its head. In other words, I would find it almost impossible to prove in a courtroom that she is straight.

Be well upside. The strength of character you have shown to come through what you have is an example to all.

4943 days…


And now here is my secret, a very simple secret. It is only with the heart that one can see clearly that which is essential is invisible to the eye.
     Thread Starter
 

September 11, 2021 6:13 am  #6


Re: Female behavioural red flags

Ordinary guy wrote:

Upside wrote:

These resonate with me. Thank you for creating this OrdinaryGuy.

The below also might be of interest, which are anecdotes collected from personal stories on these forums:
The Big List of Red Flags
 

The common denominator we have is the child. Without the child my life would be empty, but I would simply divorce her and move on. It is the presence of children in these relationships that is the complicating factor that others need to understand as the reason why as straight spouses we do not put our own happiness first and foremost. 

I get that... I sallute you...and all others who have young children and want to sacrifice their own happiness for their children's. However I am certain that with counselling etc, you can find a way to make this work on your own. I wonder how often lesbians end up having the children with them, while being in their new 'happy' relationships. I often think, that gays generally are very self-centred people, and would not worry too much about having children around. This is an assumption... What are people's experiences in this regard? I would rather have my child with me every other week, or every other 2 weeks, and be a happier person without having to pretend. I know this is easier said than done... I don't want to step on anyone's toes... This is hard as is....


"Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:32).
 

September 11, 2021 2:43 pm  #7


Re: Female behavioural red flags

I wouldn't assume that staying in the home is protecting a child. 

 

September 13, 2021 12:36 pm  #8


Re: Female behavioural red flags

It’s a risk based decision. To stay is a risk to myself, to leave is a risk to another. I place a higher importance on the risk to others over the risk to myself. Maybe an inherent character fault.


And now here is my secret, a very simple secret. It is only with the heart that one can see clearly that which is essential is invisible to the eye.
     Thread Starter
 

September 13, 2021 1:13 pm  #9


Re: Female behavioural red flags

Thank you, Ordinary Guy. I'm deeply moved by your words, both of very kind support and of your story as a truly dedicated father.

You're onto something true when you talk about a shift versus an absence. Our spouses didn't "become" anything new, they turned off the trained behaviors they no longer needed. The heterosexuality was the mask, not the other. We had done our job in providing them children so we were no longer required, no offered a contract of an open marriage we never wanted.

While these decisions are filled with complexity I can't understand, you deserve happiness Ordinary Guy. Nearly 15 years without contact is...beyond words. This is selflessness at a monumental scale. No one should be forced to live trapped within their own life, a hostage. I'm hopeful you can find a path that allows for your happiness, even if you must stay married until your son grows older.

 

September 13, 2021 2:17 pm  #10


Re: Female behavioural red flags

Hi OG,

I remember your circumstances with your child. It's not likely to change. Your decision is one of a loving, responsible father for sure.

I am one for monogamy in a marriage as well. I felt it would compound my misery to seek other partners. I wanted married love - emotional and sexual closeness.  That's personal. I couldn't sleep around when I was single. It's soul sapping.

On subject, male behavioral flags are similar.  It may be worthwhile to place red flags in one "people reading" bucket.  The less than honest spouses we had/have "people read" us to manipulate. I refused to people read because I thought it was a means to take advantage of someone. I can gain knowledge to protect myself. I don't have to go forward to fool someone for gain. The gain is cutting them off before a relationship is started.

 


No - It's not too late. It's not hopeless. Even there, there's something I can do. I just have to find the will. Ikiru (1952), film directed by Akira Kurosawa 
 

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