Thank you everyone for writing. In reply: 

Shhh0406 wrote: 

1. Hey Diff I guess and Sean, I'm recognizing that just like you said Sean there is no point in asking anymore questions. He lies and denies and isn't capable of telling the truth because he believes his own lies. Friday night for instance, at 1am I heard my back door shut (like somebody was outside and coming back in) and heard him in the kitchen making food. Mind you I feel asleep at 1030-11. I look up and the tv and the screensaver for Netflix is on. So the tv screen is black which takes app 30 minutes to happen. I know I tested it. I feel his side of the bed and it's cold like someone hasn't been there for awhile. I look down and his phone isn't on the charger. He comes into bed and I go where were you. He says I was making food and watching Netflix. I said the tv is off and has been for awhile. He said no it hasn't. The next day I ask him, "where did you go last night?" He says real defensively, "I didn't leave the house and would never do that. You have no reason to believe that I left the house because it didn't happen. I was in the bathroom jacking off then I made food. Your imagining the door shutting because I didn't hear it." Just like Sean says he changes his lies day after day and I wasn't asking him if he left the house. I asked him where did you go meaning out of the bedroom but he kind of told on himself. I think? What do you think? What could he be doing sneaking out at 1am and I've felt like he's done this before. 

Sigh. Why are you still sharing a bed (and your life) with this loser? 

2. Another thing is he never touches me when we sleep. This has been going on since day one. He won't wrap his arm around me. Won't even lay a hand on me and I've never experienced this in a relationship before. He says it's because he can't sleep like that and it's uncomfortable but can hold a pillow. This is one of the main reasons I don't trust him. His words don't match his actions. You say you miss me and love me but won't touch me while we sleep? Has anyone experienced this with their spouse before?  Sean is right he's gay, gay, gay. I don't really think he's bisexual Diff I guess but I don't know. It's so confusing. I think he's a gay in denial man.

So why stay with a gay man who lies, cheats, and won't show affection? 

3. So, Diff I guess, when you said "The problem here is expectations.  You have a very reasonable expectation that the guy you are with not cheat and esp. not cheat with trans people.  I don’t think he can fulfill it." Did you mean you don't think bisexual men can stay monogamous?

Wrong. Bisexual doesn't automatically mean promiscuous. Just like heterosexuals who refrain from cheating on their partners with the opposite sex, there are many bisexual men and women who prefer monogamy.  

4. I do think your correct and he would date a transexual beyond sex but there's to many negative aspects. He did say he messed around with a transexual that ended up committing suicide and that was the only one he actually had a good experience (sexual) experience with.

I see nothing wrong with him sleeping with transexuals, provided there is consent of course. The main issue is that you want a monogamous relationship with a heterosexual man. Based on what you've shared here, he sleeps with men & women, enjoys BDSM sex, and clearly wants an open (rather than exclusively monogamous) relationship. 
At the end of the day it doesn't matter who he's sleeping with if you two define relationships so differently. 

5. I also want to say that we haven't had sex in 6 months because I don't want to. He tries to all the time (well sort of) he'll make sexual remarks and try to kiss me and I won't because of this whole bisexual thing and him lying about it and me not knowing if he's cheating. Am I wrong for doing this?

Your body, your consent, so it's your choice. If any straight wives/girlfriends suspect their male partners are cheating, there is always a risk of contracting a nasty STI/STD if you continue having unprotected sex.  

6. Maybe it's just an act I dont' know but I know any other man wouldn't go 1 week without having sex with me. He seems to mention it every couple of days but it doesn't seem that he cares. Prior to not having sex for 6 months, he would wake me up in the middle of the night and I wouldn't deny him of sex. This happened often but he hasn't done it in the past 6 months. Even though he knows I'll have sex with him in the middle of the night everytime. 

Again, your body, your choice. 

7. Sean, I am going to leave him.

F*cking finally! I think this is the right decision. 

8. I financially cannot at the moment. I'm going to school full-time and work full-time with 2 children to take care of. My bills are way more then my income and I can't afford my rent alone without his help.

Then find a roommate and kick his *ss out of your life. He'll then be free to be 100% himself and you can find an honest, heterosexual man, who wants to be monogamous. 

9. I am emotionally detached and am starting to see this relationship for what it is and you've given me a new perspective. Everyday I read your posts and it helps me tremendously in trying to figure this hell of a relationship out. Thank you everyone for all your support and I appreciate you being patient with me through this process.

It's a journey my friend and I hope I haven't pushed you too hard. Thank you for sharing your journey so honestly. 

10. You guys are really helping me see things how they are. It's just really hard and confusing. I appreciate you all from the bottom of my heart. This has been a terrible heartbreaking experience. Sure builds character doesn't it. 

Good luck my friend! 

MireP wrote:  

1. Hi Sean, sorry for writing again...but I'm a little lost. I talked to my husband to find out if he was gay, but he says no and doesn't want to admit it. I know for sure that it is, because of many things I have found. But well, he gets very angry when I say it. I have not wanted to mention this topic anymore, and I have told him that I will not talk about this because I understand that it hurts him.

Thank you for sharing and feel free to post here as often as you like. With regards to your husband's continued denial, very few closeted/questioning husbands admit their attraction to men. Eventually, it gets to a point where he's like a vegan, chowing down on a juicy steak, claiming how vegan he is. What's my point? The act (eating steak) nullifies the claim (I'm vegan). Similarly, men can't have sex with other men while claiming to be straight.  

2. Now I have decided to separate and I have already found an apartment that I am asking to move into in January. my question and confusion: I have explained everything to him, I have told him that I don't want anything, I have made things super easy for him....is it possible that he is still pretending that we are normal???it is as if nothing is happening between us ....he makes us see that we are fine!!!!

This level of denial isn't unusual. 

3. And he continues to be the good husband and doesn't explain anything to anyone!!!! It's as if our life was perfect....and in 1 month I'm going to leave!!!!! Is this normal? I don't know what I have What to do...I think I'm more lost and confused than ever...any help on how to proceed????

I hope you have a good divorce lawyer. If he is still in deep denial about your separation/divorce, then I'd take advantage of this time to prepare for what might become a legal battle. If he used anger to keep you from asking about his sexuality, he'll likely be a very angry future ex-husband. 

Good luck my friend. Be well! 

Hi Sean,
My husband and I dated from age 19-29 (all through med school). We have been married for the last 4 years. 
We were planning a baby soon (he always wanted that for the last 4 years) but on the day he said he thinks he's gay and has been thinking about it for 6 months.He says he had kissed a boy at the age of 4 and has probably suppressed his feelings since then. He doesn't think he had any other awareness of suppression over the years. 
Ours has been a very happy relationship throughout. I may have been the dominating one. I cheated on him (depression, new city, he was unavailable because of a major exam) before the wedding but came clean within a few months and I never had sex with the guy. 
I have quite a lot of trauma associated with sex from my past (first boyfriend cheated on me, neighbour having kissed me when I was 4, best friend made a pass at me when I least expected, I had dreams of rape for a long time post that and then the guilt of cheating). My husband always wanted us to have a good sex life but we started having sex 8 years into our relationship. 
In the last 4 years with exams, life in general, fear of getting pregnant and my reduced desires we would have sex once in 3 months. That bothered him a lot. we made out a lot but I always thought the sex was my problem. To be honest I thought once in 3 months is normal. 
He has spoken to people on dating apps to understand lives of people who identify as gay or bisexual or anywhere on the LGBTQ spectrum. 
He has met a guy for 5 minutes (realised he was his patient) and left. He met another guy and kissed him but did nothing further because we are married but says he wanted to. 

We are both in therapy and heading towards couples counseling but I want to understand if there's any possibility of saving our marriage. He says he's tried a lot to forget this but he can't, felt neglected for 14 years and now he only wants men and is not interested in me. When I accept and try to move on he insists we take more time and therapy. 

He keeps saying it's equally difficult for him and he misses me. I am worried this will be the rest of my life!

Thank you for writing Mire and Confused. In reply to Confused's post: 

1. Hi Sean, My husband and I dated from age 19-29 (all through med school). We have been married for the last 4 years. We were planning a baby soon (he always wanted that for the last 4 years) but on the day he said he thinks he's gay and has been thinking about it for 6 months.

I'm so sorry you've been put in this position my friend. You must be in shock. If your husband's journey in any way resembles mine, I'd modify that last sentence to read: "he's gay and has been thinking of how to tell me about it for 6 months." 

2. He says he had kissed a boy at the age of 4 and has probably suppressed his feelings since then. He doesn't think he had any other awareness of suppression over the years. 

I felt my first attraction to another boy at age 5. 

3. Ours has been a very happy relationship throughout.

Strange. Every single straight spouse starts her journey this way; meaning she starts with "I love him and we're best friends..." but then slowly discloses a highly dysfunctional relationship. 

4. I may have been the dominating one. I cheated on him (depression, new city, he was unavailable because of a major exam) before the wedding but came clean within a few months and I never had sex with the guy. I have quite a lot of trauma associated with sex from my past (first boyfriend cheated on me, neighbour having kissed me when I was 4, best friend made a pass at me when I least expected, I had dreams of rape for a long time post that and then the guilt of cheating).

I'm very sorry for your trauma. Question: I assume that by the "dominating one" you're referring to the fact that you always initiated sex? Feel free to confirm. 

5. My husband always wanted us to have a good sex life but we started having sex 8 years into our relationship. In the last 4 years with exams, life in general, fear of getting pregnant and my reduced desires we would have sex once in 3 months. That bothered him a lot. We made out a lot but I always thought the sex was my problem. To be honest I thought once in 3 months is normal. 

Did you mean to write "but we stopped having sex 8 years into our relationship"? Kindly let me know. If I'm reading this correctly, you perhaps feel that the lack of sex in your relationship was your fault. If your husband is indeed gay-in-denial (or "GID") then none of this was your fault. 

6. He has spoken to people on dating apps to understand lives of people who identify as gay or bisexual or anywhere on the LGBTQ spectrum. He has met a guy for 5 minutes (realised he was his patient) and left. He met another guy and kissed him but did nothing further because we are married but says he wanted to. 

These are red flags in my opinion. No one just casually goes on Grindr (a gay sex app) to chat; we chat on Instagram, Facebook, or he can reach out to any number of gay associations for support. However, if he's on Grindr, he's looking for sex with gay men. As for the 5 minutes and "just kissed" excuses, I'd be prepared to learn he did a lot more. As I've often written, cheating is like an iceberg; meaning 9/10ths remains under water. 

7. We are both in therapy and heading towards couples counseling but I want to understand if there's any possibility of saving our marriage.

We've all tried couple's counselling. 

8. He says he's tried a lot to forget this but he can't, felt neglected for 14 years and now he only wants men and is not interested in me. When I accept and try to move on he insists we take more time and therapy. He keeps saying it's equally difficult for him and he misses me. I am worried this will be the rest of my life!

His words: I'm now only interested in men and am not interested in you. 

9. We have also had sex even after he told me about this and it was everything it should be.

There is often a post-coming-out "honeymoon" period during which the questioning/closeted husband tries to provide he's straight by initiating sex with his bewildered wife. He's often on a mission. The "honeymoon" rarely lasts more than 2-3 months. 

10. Over the past 1 month (since he's told me) he's gone from I like men and only you to I am not attracted to you. I can't live my whole life in suppression and I don't care about society. He also had urges of meeting 3 men in a day (but didn't) which he addressed with his therapist as 'impulses'. He says he's also been watching a lot of gay porn since the last 6 months.

Understood. So he admits that he is:

- On gay dating apps (or perhaps gay hook up apps)
- Meeting men for dates
- Watches gay porn  

11. He's never been angry or resentful towards me, a day before he told me I would never have believed I'd be here today. He also keeps bringing up me having cheated on him and the fact that I/he never addressed that in therapy. 

This sounds a lot like anger and resent.

12. I am not in touch with the guy that I'd cheated on him with but he has recently moved back to our city and that has been coming up in our conversations in the recent past. My husband is a very loving and understanding person. I am in shock and grief and I love him very much.

Again I'm so very sorry you're struggling my friend. 

13. I'm worried it's a psychological issue more than a sexual orientation realisation? Or have all the issues pushed him to a sudden realisation? But every conversation ends with 'I like men, I want physical and emotional connections with men only.'

I reckon that by his words: 

- I like men, I want physical and emotional connections with men only. 

and his actions: 

- Gay dating apps
- Meeting up with men
- Watching gay porn

there is little doubt in my mind that he self-identifies as gay and his actions suggest he is attracted to men. However, it often takes months or even years for closeted/questioning husbands to fully embrace their true sexual identity/orientation; particularly if he believes he will lose you in the process. So what now? While we've all tried couple's counselling, I'd urge you to focus on your own mental health through solo therapy. Some couples attempt to have a baby in an attempt to "heal" their relationships. I wouldn't recommend that. As for your husband, given the sexual "urges" he disclosed to you, he is perhaps on the cusp of "gay adolescence" which is a boy-crazy teen-like step in the coming out process. If your husband suddenly turns into a fitness nut, starts body shaving, buys sexy underwear, and goes on a lot of weekend getaways, he's likely having sex with lots of men. I hope that's not too shocking. 

I'd recommend you start your own thread here to document your journey while also getting support from this forum's kind members. I hope that helps. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (November 21, 2023 4:01 pm)

Thank you for replying Confused. Here are my thoughts: 

1. We started having sex at the age of 27. Before that we'd make out almost every single day. Because I'd decided I'd only have sex after I'm married at 27. We got married at 30.

Would it be fair to assume you were raised as Evangelical Christians? 

2. Med school for both of us has been mental trauma and before any exam I would lose all interest. I was also depressed for the past few years (2016-2020). I'm a doctor so this is my diagnosis. I have only recently started seeing a therapist.

Glad you're in therapy. 

3. By dominating one, I mean I'd step in to make any decisions when we were confused as a team. He has struggled with low self esteem even though he's the best at everything he does. But he's always felt 'he's always second'. Including when I cheated on him. I also made a decision to live in a bigger city which has made work hours difficult for us. I work 11 hours a day 6 days a week and he works 16 hours a day now. I have seen his Google locations and the money that's coming in so I'm certain he's working those hours.

Understood. 

3. He always initiated sex and wanted more, would push me to go out for a drink with him etc. Even on holidays and vacations he expected us to have sex but I would be tired by the end of the day. I was scared of getting pregnant through my 2 years of fellowship training. Not having enough sex was on me for sure. He says 'I waited for you for 14 years and you didn't even see me, but now I like men.' He said imagine 'if you'd ask me for something a million times and everytime I said no.' and 'I just kept thinking we've had sex less than 100 times.' 'you met him (the guy I cheated with) 10 times so I normalised that and thought if I meet guys 9 times it'll be enough for this lifetime.' We did have sex, it was just that it was infrequent and he got addicted to porn. Straight porn first, then found gay porn. Is this coming from a place of neglect and anger?

The facts:

- Wait until marriage to have sex. 
- I was domineering which might have made him gay. 
- I didn't give him enough sex which might have made him gay. 
- Evil pornography addiction made him same sex attracted. 
- I cheated on him so I'm a bad spouse. 

suggest that you are/were an Evangelical Christian. Would that be a fair assumption? 

4. We were always 'couple goals'. We were always laughing and singing when we were in the house. We struggled to find time with each other because of our work schedules. He isn't into fitness (wants to start now because it's good for mental health), I buy his underwear, weekends was always about us or our friends or our family. Or a medical conference in the same city. 

I see. Let's focus then on his gay dating apps. What apps is he using to meet up with other men? 

5. I don't understand if this is the start of all the stories I've read here, or if he's bisexual and the neglect pushed him to realise that. Have you ever met/talked to someone with sexual orientation OCD - it's a condition where a thought becomes too real and you then need to act on it. My mind is going everywhere.

Reading between the lines, I believe your question is: did I somehow make my husband gay because of my lack of interest in sex with him and apparently domineering ways? It sounds like you're feeling a lot of guilt/shame because you cheated on him which is understandable. I will assume that you either live in a very conservative/Christian part of the world and/or were raised Evangelical Christian where people believe we aren't born gay but become gay. In those circles, we're gay because of domineering mothers and sexual trauma. Here is my response to: "Did I make my husband gay?" 

The answer is "no." Sexual orientation is hard-wired, or God-given if you prefer. Your husband disclosed that he felt an attraction towards other boys around age 4. That is highly significant. Heterosexuals feel the spark of attraction between ages 4-6 and we gays are just like you. Being gay/homosexual isn't an anomaly, however, society often makes us feel anomalous because no one asks little boys in kindergarten "Do you have a boyfriend?" As such, I knew I was different at a very young age and yet also understood that this wasn't acceptable on some level. So I hid it and felt shame about my attraction to boys/men. I was raised in sane, secular Canada and even I felt the need to hide my homosexuality. It's even worse for young gays raised in conservative or highly religious regions/countries that condemn homosexuality. So what are my points? I have several: 

- Cheating/Sex with your Husband: Ok so you randomly f*cked another guy but this didn't make your husband gay. Yes you apparently put up a lot of conditions/barriers with regards to having sex with your husband. So I can understand your husband's confusion: "Why did you sleep with Dave after a hot minute when I had to wait for years?" Fair question really. While I'd explore this with your therapist, there is the possibility that you love your husband, feel an emotional attachment to your husband, and yet have little sexual attraction to your husband. If true, this lack of sexual attraction to your husband sometimes stems from the fact that a spouse knows on a cellular level that her husband is attracted to men, not women. 

- The Domineering Wife/Mother: Strong women don't make boys/men gay. Gay men revere their divas like Gaga, Cher, Madonna etc. Most gay men I know love/worship their mothers. But the Evangelical idea that strong moms and absent/effaced fathers = little gay boys is as dated as acid washed jeans. There is no proven study that a home environment influences sexual orientation. But the dying Christian conversion therapy industry still pushes these theories. If you want to see just how ineffective Christian conversion therapy can be, go to this Instagram profile: www.instagram.com/mckraegame. McKrae Game was the former head of an ex-gay ministry teaching conversion therapy. He's divorced, out, and very proud these days. I've gone out on a bit of a limb here with my assumptions so please forgive me if none of this applies to your current situation. 

- Your husband's sexuality: Millions of husbands are sexually frustrated or neglected by their wives. But these men tend to cheat with women. Sexual frustration and neglect don't suddenly turn men gay. If your husband is on gay porn, gay dating apps, has started dating men, has kissed men, first felt an attraction to boys around age 4, and recently stated: "I like men, I want physical and emotional connections with men only," then perhaps it's time to believe him. Pain in gay/straight marriages is mostly caused when spouses attempt to deny this simple reality. If your husband is gay and you are straight, then you two are incompatible and the relationship needs to end...amicably and lovingly. All break ups are painful, but best to end a broken marriage now when you are both young enough to find new partners who better align with your sexual orientations and emotional needs. 

I hope that helps my friend. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (November 22, 2023 2:32 am)

Good day Josephine. For those who don't know your story, I'm reposting it below: 

My Husband [of 37 years] passed away from a brain tumor recently and about 6 months later I found out he was gayl  I am so devastated!   I don't know why he would lie to me and hurt me like this.  He never revealed to me that he was gay and I had to search our computer to discover what was going on.  There was always something he was hiding from me.  Because of his tumor he became someone I didn't recognize and didn't know.  We were married for 37 years, the last ten were very difficult due to his diminished  mental capacity!  I took care of him for 10 years but then discovered he was interested in men.  I feel so used and discarded!  How do I move on?   I don't feel he set out to hurt me but that is the result!  How do I know if the brain tumor changed him or if it just revealed who he already was?

Now in response to your questions: 

1. Hi Sean, I have a question.  How do I reconcile that my Husband was two different men? 

I'm going to assume that you're now in your 60s but please feel free to confirm. If this is correct, you can perhaps start by accepting that gay men of your generation routinely married women because there wasn't any alternative. There was actually a term for it: lavendar marriages. And why did closeted gay men marry women? Because they were of a generation where homosexuality was so marginalized, stimatized, and demonized that being "out" simply wasn't an option. I'd suggest reading "Finally Out" by Dr. Loren A. Olsen (now age 78). He writes about his coming out journey in a very hostile world.  

2. I can understand that he was attracted to men and wanted to pursue them but I do not understand why it was like a switch in his brain when he left me and our sons.  That is the main thing that has caused my trauma.  I was used to the slow change in his personality due to the brain tumor.  When he left us it was like turning off a light!  One minute he was trying to be a good husband, though not succeeding , because he had a brain tumor, The next minute he left and could care less about us.  I do not understand this! 

I had a similar experience. When I came out, I went through something called "gay adolescence" so for several years I was "boy crazy" and largely abandoned my own children. And why? I had all the maturity of a 15-year-old gay teen trapped in a 40+ year-old body so I simply didn't have the mental bandwidth to be a good father. I was too self-centred. While I'd discuss all of this with a qualified therapist, if/when your husband accepted his homosexuality and starting dating/having sex with men, he might have reverted to an adolescent emotional state. There is also the possiblity that he thought he had met "the one" and this new relationship became all consuming. If correct, he was simply incapable of being a good husband and father. Again, this is all speculation.  

3. Everyone keeps telling me that he did love me when we married.  I even believe this but when he left there was NOTHING!  How does someone disconnect so completely? 

Brace yourself. If he could so easily disconnect from you and your children, he probably didn't love you. For years I claimed that I loved my ex-wife. I didn't. I loved the role she played in hiding my homosexuality. I loved her as a beard, not as a wife/partner. Once I had come out to myself and others, I discarded her because she was no longer useful. I know how terribly cold this sounds, however it is the truth. It has taken me years to accept this fact and share it here. I didn't love myself therefore I was totally incapable of loving others.  

4. If I live to be 200 years old I don't think I will ever be able understand how someone can feel absolutely nothing for their children?  I can understand falling out of love with a wife but I will never understand him abandoning our sons.  Do you think that was caused by the secret he was keeping or the tumor eating away at his brain?  I know you are not a dr. but I would like your opinion. 

I'd discuss these abandonment issues with a qualified therapist. Based on my own experience, deep down I always knew I was gay and that on some level my secret would eventually come out. This meant I considered all of my relationships, including the relationships I had with my wife and children, as temporary/conditional. It's like the fugitive wanted by the FBI who assumes a new identity, marries, and has children but is always prepared to drop everything and run if the feds show up.  While I never met your husband, perhaps once he was out/outed he simply dropped you and your children because he couldn't see a way to reconcile his gay identity with his straight identity. Parental abandonment happens all the time with heterosexual divorces and perhaps more so with gay/straight relationships. Based on my own experience, I abandoned my children because I was going through gay adolescence and, for a time, I didn't see any way to reconcile being a father while also living as an out gay man. I should add that I have since reconciled with my children, see them all the time (yesterday in fact), and they know/love my long-term boyfriend. However, I must admit that times have changed, my children's generation are fully accepting of queer relationships, and most developed nations have legalized gay marriage. 

I hope that helps but please feel free to post again. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (November 25, 2023 6:06 am)