Thank you for writing friends. In response to Butterfly's post/questions: 

1. Hello. I am hoping someone can help me in the mess I am in. I am a 49 year old woman, with 2 children and with my husband for 20 years. Shortly after we married I found some women's clothes and an anal sex toy - I was horrified but confronted him. He was mortified and admitted to crossdressing. My husband was also watching all sorts of porn - shemale, gay, tranny, S&M etc... We talked about it and to be honest I thought it went away.

I'm sorry he put you in this position. I've often referred to porn as a form of "pink smoke", meaning there is often a lot of smoke before the fire breaks out. 

2. Skip forward to 2016, and on his phone I saw he was on gay hook up sites. I confronted him and he said it was all fantasy based, he might be bisexual and he had suffered trauma of a sexual nature as a teenager. I told him to go to therapy and he did for a while. Stupidly again I kept moving on. 

I don't think you're stupid for trusting your husband, particularly after so many years together.

3. We have always had an active sex life. The past year my husband was withdrawing certainly emotionally from the relationship and besides the kids and practical day to day things I felt like I was living with a roommate.

My then wife told me the same thing. I withdrew because I had started cheating on her with men via Grindr. 

4. We did little as a couple.

If/when he does try to come back to the marriage and resume having sex with you, something I call a post-conflict "honeymoon phase", please insist on both of you getting STD/STI tested and only use condoms when having sex. 

5. Over the past few months my suspicions were back again and I began snooping again!

Given his history, I reckon "snooping" was more than justified my friend. 

6. I found naked pictures of him which were not sent to me and some messages from men about meeting up. The past few weeks have been HELL. I am all over the place and trying to keep my head above water for my children's sake. It all exploded over the weekend. 

What an *sshole. I'm so sorry he's doing this to you and your family. 

7. My husband is identifying as bisexual and has admitted to hooking up with 3 men over the past year for role play and blowjobs - denies any sex took place! He has talked about his sexual abuse in more detail saying that he was abused by a few men as an older teenager - they forced him to do blowjobs, have sex and made him wear womens clothes/stockings etc... He was very upset telling me this. He thinks he has a sex addiction - masturbates a lot, fantasies (saying I am in the middle of a lot of his fantasies - lovely), watches too much porn, has sought out these meet ups with men and feels dirty and shameful after.

He's following a common script among closeted husbands who's wives are threatening separation/divorce, namely: 

False hope: I'm bisexual, not gay. Translation: I want you to think that there is still a chance I'm attracted to you. 
Minimize/lie: I hooked up with three men but didn't do anal. Translation: I've hooked up with countless men for years and this includes anal sex of course. I'm hoping that by telling you it was just oral that this is somehow more acceptable. 
Distract: I was sexually abused. Translation: I started having sex with men as a teenager because I knew I was gay even back then. I know that you're considering separation/divorce so this sexual assault narrative paints me as the victim who needs saving. 

8. He has been leading a double life...

since he was a teenager apparently. 

9. ...is depressed and it has finally caught up with him.

I reckon he's depressed because you know the whole truth. 

10. He has totally split this side of himself and I imagine meeting these men and role playing is re-enacting the earlier abuse. 

While I do believe sexual abuse happens and it's barbaric, I find it hard to believe these men...particularly when they've been lying about their true sexualities for decades. In my opinion, the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle; meaning that your husband actively, consensually, and enthusiastically explored his homosexuality in his teens. And yet he was likely of a generation or raised in an environment where gay sex was considered dirty or evil...hence the after-the-fact fear/shame. 

11. I am lost. What do I do? End the marriage. I can't see anyway back from this and am trying not to get caught in the role of being his 'helper'. Any advice appreciated? 

The decision to stay vs. divorce is yours alone my friend. So I can't give you any advice on that front. However, I urge you get tested for STDs/STIs, demand that your husband do the same (knowing that he'll likely hedge/refuse), only practice safe sex, and get yourself into solo (not couples) counselling. I would also recommend you start your own thread here and post daily for the next 90 days so that the kind members here can help you work through your shock/trauma. If your husband is truly the victim of sexual trauma and he truly wants to heal to save your relationship, then he can prove it. He's a grown man, with a phone, and internet access. So he's more than capable of finding a qualified trauma therapist and attending regular counselling sessions. If however, he appears to be dealing with the trauma through gay porn, gay hook up apps, and down-low sex with other men, then his claims that "I was abused" are likely bullsh*t. 

I hope that helps my friend. Be well! 

Last edited by Sean01 (June 26, 2023 4:39 pm)

Thanks for posting Moppy. In reply: 

1. SEAN. Dude. You have…. Blown my mind. You validating every suspicion I have ever had has made me feel so empowered. Sad, dumbfounded, overwhelmed, but your posts kicked my butt immediately into action mode.

Glad to have helped in some way. 

2. After reading everything you’ve said, I 
-created a group chat of all of my closest friends where I could send them updates, screen shots, get advice, and get hella validated
-told all of my sisters and feel super supported by them
-got a list of lawyers numbers
-called our couples counselor and told her what I think we’re actually dealing with, and said I would meet one final time tomorrow and then be done with couples
-went to the dr
-cut the friendly chatter with the husband and only speak when absolutely necessary
-And last but not least, after he put up a lot of a fight, I kicked him out of the house!!!!

We are making moves.

Wow! Well done. I can't stress how important it is for straight spouses to get tested for STDs/STIs and only practice safe sex (read: condoms) with closeted/questioning husbands. I also applaud you for getting support from people outside or beyond his influence and focusing on individual, rather than couples, counselling. You're doing the emotional equivalent of getting out of the pool to save yourself from a man who's drowning. 

3. I would love to find more evidence of cheating though I believe he 1000000% has for our entire marriage. I feel like the veil has been lifted and I can see soooo clearly. It’s gut wrenching but also cathartic.

When straight spouses are in shock, it's common for them to think they need more proof. I believe it's a form of bargaining, something you should perhaps discuss with a qualified, non-religious, therapist. I don't know what more proof you need beyond him admitting he f*cked your pastor for months back in 2017 and, since then, overtly having sex with gay men on his "Brokeback Mountain" weekends. So don't waste your time playing detective. Again, you know your husband had sex with a (male) pastor and that he's been f*cking men on fake business weekends for at least the last six years. You don't need any more proof my friend because you already know the truth: he's gay; he's been cheating on you for years; he's been lying about it; and he's never going to change. 

4. I have a lot more questions regarding gay + narcissism but I’ll return with those.

Fire away! If your husband does indeed have a form of personality disorder, this is how things are likely going to play out going forward: 

- He's going to fabricate a health scare ("I have cancer!") or fake suicide. 
- He's now actively trying to make himself out to be the victim so he'll lean heavily on the "I was r*ped" narrative. 
- You'll likely get a lot of "he's really hurting" calls/messages from his friends and family. 

Put bluntly: he'll do everything to make himself look like a victim, make you look like the agressor, all in the faint hope of getting back with you and into the family home. While I'd discuss all of this with a qualified therapist, the best way to engage with closeted husbands during the separation phase is not to engage. One trick I suggested to another straight spouse was to mentally think "radioactive" whenever she was exposed to her gay husband; meaning that every interaction was dangerous and the only way forward was to not engage with him.  

5. I know you sucked at a time, and hell maybe you still do...

Fair. 

6. ...but you truly expedited a process that I believe would’ve otherwise taken many more months, if not years, and really helped me see things so much more quickly. So thank you for that!

Glad to have helped in some way. I'd urge you to be prepared my friend, which might include exploring co-dependency with a recovery group (www.coda.org) or qualified therapist. It's not easy to separate/divorce, particularly with a gay husband, while living among church communites that deny homosexuality. So I'd be ready to feel lots of emotions and you might even find yourself falling back on old habits by trying to "save" him. Even in sexless and emotionally abusive relationships, some straight spouses are brainwashed by their churches to think their sole purpose in life is to serve and save their husbands. It's bullsh*t. That's why I'd recommend you continue journaling, posting here, going to individual therapy (and FFS don't give him your therapist's contact info because he'll just brainwash him/her), and stay in touch with people 100% on your side. 

Good luck!

Last edited by Sean01 (June 27, 2023 1:47 am)

Thanks for responding Butterfly. In reply: 

1. Thank you Sean for responding. I am see sawing between sadness/tears, anger and feeling like I am in a role in a bad movie - everything is so surreal. I just got my kids to school and I was looking at them and feeling so sad. 

I'm sorry you're suffering my friend. This sounds like the shock many straight wives go through following disclosure/discovery. 

2. I actually have a session today with my own therapist.

Excellent. I hope it goes well. 

3. Am I being stupid because I arranged a session next week 'for my husband' for an assessment with an addiction counsellor. I also have to go to the initial session. Should I cancel that and as you say let him sort himself out!!

Strange that closeted/questioning husbands can move hell and Earth to schedule clandestine hook ups but then turn into complete slugs when it comes to booking their own therapy sessions. It's bullsh*t. With regards to attending his first session, you don't "have" to do anything my friend. If he can have gay sex without you there, then he can survive his first therapy session alone. He's a grown-ass man who can talk about his feelings with the therapist lady without "mommy" holding his hand. And if you do ultimately attend, something I don't recommend, get ready for him to minimize his cheating while shifting blame: on bad parents; on his alleged abusers; and even on you. Most joint therapy sessions turn into a veritable pride parade during which the straight spouse is criticized for not being supportive enough. F*ck 'em.  

4. I will never truly know if he was or was not sexually abused.

I'm calling bullsh*t for the reasons stated above. He's lied to and cheated on you for years...and now he's a walking truth machine!? That's not how honesty works my friend. 

5. He certainly comes from an emotionally repressed family where anything outside of 'normal' is frowned upon.

Boo-f*cking-hoo. Who's the real victim here? You of course. We all have our own sob stories. Nothing in his past forced him to send d*ck pics nor hook up with random men. 

6. I am in a place where if seeking a break up of the marriage that has a massive impact on my kids and will turn their world upside down - they love their Dad.

Understandable. Separation/divorce are complicated and have lifelong repercussions. Take all the time you need. 

7. I hear you regarding the co-dependency - I grew up in a family where my own father had mental health issues and I always felt I was never good enough, so I guess I am recreating this in my own marriage. Lots to reflect on!

If you are indeed diagnosed by a mental health professional as co-dependent (www.coda.org), then you likely define love as selflessly trying to help/heal others while neglecting yourself. Most co-dependents are attracted to deeply broken, toxically self-centred, and personality disordered partners. I'd urge you to discuss all of this with your therapist, keeping in mind that overcoming co-dependency doesn't happen overnight. 

I hope that helps my friend. Please feel free to reply and/or post as much as you like. Good luck! 

Last edited by Sean01 (June 27, 2023 5:42 am)

Ps - he said yesterday he feels like his life has been a pretense, living up to people's expectations, being the good guy, the best football coach etc etc.....He said he feels like he is living in Hollywood, but it is not real!

Thank you 

Thank you Sean. 

Myself and my husband have/had what I call an active sex life - 2/3 times weekly -he has never had a problem performing. He does like me to dress in lingerie when we have sex - nothing weird - I don't have a problem with that  - but I can't even look at him at the moment though and I won't be going near him. 

Yes he has a history of crossdressing - I discovered it after we married when I found women's clothing and an anal sex toy. He does look up 'beautiful women' a lot online like the 'perfect woman'. Happy when I    wear figure hugging clothes etc. and I have always felt that pressure to be 'perfect'. I am 49 now with 2 kids, yes I am attractive but I don't always want this pressure. 

I am wondering in this crazy shit too if he is transgender - he is saying to me that he is 'consumed by me because I am so beautiful/he wants to be me' - fantasises about me having sex with other men etc

But yet - meeting up with other men for some type of sex  saying they put him in stockings/girl role etc. He is deep in denial, has been leading a double life. I am writing this out as my head all over the place. 

Sorry - it is all mad!