Thank you for posting Rose. In reply: 

1. Sean, thank you so much for responding - I was looking for it eagerly; I do think you make so much sense.

Thank you but please keep in mind that I myself was an angry, manipulative, closeted husband not too long ago. 

2. It is so hard with my son. Both of my children were adopted at birth. When all of this started to explode, it was immediately clear to me that they needed their Dad, and that demonizing him was definitely not the way to go.

I reckon we owe our children the truth. If you've determined that their dad is a closeted, cheating, and abusive husband, you can honestly share all of this with them. In my limited experience, most children know dad's gay long before we sit them down and share "dad's big secret." In fact, many children experience relief when dad comes out because they no longer feel responsible for keeping his secrets and for keeping mom/dad together.   

3. He is a funny, kind, generous, smart person who made a mistake a long time ago, in a different - but not different enough - era, and married his college girlfriend - me. Like you said "We're not bad people, it's just that we've been hiding our sexualities since around ages 5 or 6."

There appears to be a disconnect between the kind man you describe above and this person: 

"But, [husband] Chris is going to be mean to me as I try to move to divorce, and I am afraid of that. He can be lacerating, so sharp when he is angry."

4. That said, opening the door is the only path to health that I see, and he isn’t budging - in fact, I’m worried he thinks the right thing to do is double down on his commitment to the life he built with me. Ugh. It isn’t going to hold!

Few spouses just walk away from long-term marriages, particularly when there are children. HOWEVER, be prepared because closeted husbands don't go quietly, particularly when they've built an entire identity around acting straight. When a straight spouse starts hinting at divorce, her husband often: 

- Fakes an illness or suicide so she becomes his caretaker
- Claims he was sexually abused/assaulted and that only she can help him heal such wounds
- Love bombs her and initiates a "honeymoon" phase during which he acts like perfect, horny, hetero husband

5. Anyway, I think for my son it is this: yes, there is a fire/smoke issue. But we (ok I) are going to have to stabilize the structure before we can get close enough to address it fully....

Fair. But how is Chris/husband/father helping other than buying burner phones and hooking up with men on the down-low? Hard for any spouse to "stabilize the structure" when the husband is throwing Molotov cocktails and swinging away with his pink sledgehammer. 

6. This is our house, flaws and all. So, I’m going to engineer a strategic exit over the next several months while I get my son the psychiatric and therapeutic care he needs. Then I can go.

Take all the time you need my friend. Separation and divorce are serious matters. 

7. I’m tempted to blow the whole thing up now but I guess I believe it’s more nuanced, multifaceted than that. BUT it would be so much easier if my husband could cope with the truth, right?

Truth isn't a language closeted/questioning husbands understand unfortunately. Asking these broken men to be honest and authentic would be like asking your husband to wake up tomorrow speaking fluent Mandarin. It's going to take him years to fully accept reality. 

8. But he’s still lying to himself I guess.  Anyway, thank you so much for being here. This limbo life is a weird experience and your support here is a help to so many; look at the numbers!  Gratefully, Rose. 

Thank you Rose and I'd encourage you to keep coming back. Here are some links to interviews I've done with fellow straight spouses: 

INTERVIEW W/CHARLOTTE (FEB16-22). Charlotte (aka "LMM") is a relatively new member to the forum. She bravely shares about being raised by mentally ill parents, being an Evangelical Christian, and why God told her to marry a closeted gay man. Charlotte has recently made the decision to separate/divorce. 

INTERVIEW W/LILY (JAN30-22). Lily is a long-time forum member and beloved contributor. She shares about meeting her future husband in a cult, moving to Australia for "love", and how he emotionally abused her for decades. Lily is now divorced, free, and living her best life down under.  

INTERVIEW W/KAY (JAN22-22). Kay (aka "Walkbymyself") shares about spending three decades with her closeted ex-husband, his AIDS scare, and how she found the courage to divorce. 

Good luck!   

Last edited by Sean (March 9, 2022 11:07 am)

I've been thinking a lot about all of this: my kids overheard a lot, so they know my husband was questioning his sexuality, and they also know he had an affair.  They also do adore their father.  Sean wrote that there is a disconnect between the kind man I described and some of his actions, including his anger. I'd say, yes, there is a disconnect.  That is kind of the whole thing: there is a disconnect.  We straight spouses have to sit with that, work around the gaps and find ways of coping when the person who we are supposed to be able to count on most is a person who is deeply conflicted, and not acting honestly.  There is a disconnect between his sexuality and his life, probably his values and his life.  And thus my sexuality and my life, and my values and my life.  And my family and my life, and my hopes and dreams and what is possible.  And his hopes and dreams and what is possible.  And the children's, too.  Very many disconnects, actually!  I guess we have to accept it and work around it for now because it is also true that he is a kind, talented man who loves them very much. And if he cannot cope with who he is, the rest of us will have to adjust. Yes, it is unhealthy and difficult for all of us, and he is the only one of us can really fix it. I'm going to leave, but I am not going to make a huge stink about it, and I am going to pace the work of restructuring this problem marriage.  REALLY GRATEFUL this forum is here.  Thank you both for thinking about it, Rose

Sean,

First things first: thank you so very much for so much time out of your life answering our questions here. I’m relatively new to this site, but I’ve been slowly reading through much of this thread and you have consistently given honest and balanced insight into these difficult situations.

I’ve been absolutely dreading asking this, but I’ve been puzzling over some things my husband has said/done and I’m at a point now where I’m not entirely sure I believe he’s straight. More specifically, I’ve developed a deep fear that he might be happier with another crossdresser/mtf trans (someone who looks like a woman but still has a penis). I understand my situation is a little outside your realm of experience (crossdressers, trans) however, I think you still might be able to give some insight into his patterns of attraction (or lack thereof).

Things that over the years have raised flags:
1. He has always been honest that nudity does not arouse him. He likes lingerie, there’s nothing “sexy” about genitalia. I will note that I’ve never actually caught him checking out men, I HAVE seen his face light up like Christmas morning over seeing attractive women... as I get older, I wonder how much of that admiration is actually lust vs envy. (Does he want to sleep with her, or BE her? He’s a crossdresser/sissy and closeted trans, so it’s not that much of a stretch. But he swears up and down to like women and he does seem attracted to other women so who knows.)
2. We had a *decent* sex life for maybe a year when we first started dating. It quickly deflated. Since we’ve been married, sex has ranged from once a week (at best) to a couple times a year, and at one point we had about a year long dry spell. He chalks this up to my sex drive being higher than his, him being tired/sore/stressed from work, and feeling repressed because vanilla sex is ‘boring’ (gee thanks) and he needs his fetishes (crossdressing, abdl, pegging, being dominated) to get him in that mindset.
3. He’s admitted that his sex drive has virtually nothing to do with me. (Apparently that’s supposed to make me feel better?!) And I believe this, because he’s rarely ever seems aroused by ME, he usually seems either just randomly horny or he’s aroused by feminizing himself.
4. The stars have to align perfectly for him to get off during normal intercourse. Right now that makes sense, I just had a baby and it takes awhile for everything to fully bounce back, but 5 years ago? Pre-children? When we were both in our 20’s?! The only way he can get off is laying on his back, with his eyes closed, and not really participating much but receiving a lot of stimulation.
5. He has absolutely no interest in preforming anal and says it’s unsanitary, but he really really likes pegging (being on the receiving end of anal play).
6. The first time he went down on me was 2 years into our relationship... on our honeymoon. He had no interest in trying it before that because it grossed him out. He has since decided that he enjoys it, and even mentioned a few weeks ago that he prefers doing that to actual sex.
7. Sometimes he seems to enjoy receiving blowjobs, sometimes it’s apparent that he’s annoyed by me and is waiting for it to end. (What kind of straight man gets annoyed by his wife wanting to give him blowjobs?!)
8. I used to jump through hoops trying to get his attention. He said he liked slutty clothes, so I wore them. He liked the goth-dominatrix look, I tried it. He liked the schoolgirl-Lolita look, I tried it. Etc. My closet used to look like the costume closet of a porn studio. I got wayyy to much attention from other men, but virtually none from him. He always wanted whatever I wasn’t.
9. He’s made several insensitive remarks about my looks over the years, basically insinuating that I’m not very attractive. He later excused these remarks by first saying that he thought talking about me that way was okay because he’s heard me say similar things about myself (I’ve got some self esteem issues due to past traumas) and later claiming that he wasn’t even talking about me. He was. Then he tells me he thinks I’m beautiful and all that jazz.
10. He’s always been amused by the fact that he ‘passes’ for a girl well enough that men will occasionally check him out before noticing he’s a man. He claims it’s because he thinks the look on their face when they realize he’s a man is hilarious.
11. When we were arguing about his crossdressing/feminizing, I tried to put things in perspective by asking how he’d feel I started presenting masculine. What if I cut all my hair off, stopped shaving, never wore makeup or plucked my eyebrows or did any type of feminine grooming, and started wearing men’s clothes? He said it wouldn’t bother him as long as my personality was the same. His love/attraction to me doesn’t really have anything to do with how I look. As I told him, if that’s true, then he’s an anomaly because I don’t think that’s normal at all.
12. He’s on sub forums for crossdressers, trans people, feminine men, abdl, etc... He doesn’t post, but he comments. The comments all seem harmless and platonic, like he’s just encouraging friends with similar interest. Kind of the same way women pay each other compliments when we like each others hair/makeup/clothes. But it still makes me wonder.

He says he’s never cheated, and I 100% believe him. But what are the odds that all these little things are coincidental and due to the multitude of excuses I’ve been fed? He swears up and down that he’s straight (likes women). My intuition says that he might not realize it but he’d be happier with some kind of dominant drag queen... though I really really hope I’m wrong.

Goodness gracious. Sorry about the novel.

Thank you for writing HopelessRomantic ("HR") and OSD. HR previously wrote on her thread: 

I love him. We’re best friends and we’re perfect for each other in pretty much every other way... it’s *mostly* the romantic aspect of our relationship that’s always been a problem... albeit a big problem because that aspect of life is important to me.

I've seen this a lot over the years, namely straight spouses who write "I love him and we're best friends" only to share a horrifying grocery list of lies, cheating, and abuse. While I'm not a mental health professional, I'm going to try to highlight the disconnect between the man you want him to be and the man he is, namely: 

1. He says he’s never cheated, and I 100% believe him.

I don't! I want you to gage your husband's honesty over the entirety of your relationship on a scale of 1-10. Zero (0) means he's pathologically dishonest and ten (10) means Jesus-like honesty. If your husband hid, lied, and then minimized things like his crossdressing and porn habits, then he's likely lying about cheating.  

2. He has always been honest that nudity does not arouse him. He likes lingerie, there’s nothing “sexy” about genitalia. I will note that I’ve never actually caught him checking out men, I HAVE seen his face light up like Christmas morning over seeing attractive women... as I get older, I wonder how much of that admiration is actually lust vs envy. (Does he want to sleep with her, or BE her? He’s a crossdresser/sissy and closeted trans, so it’s not that much of a stretch. But he swears up and down to like women and he does seem attracted to other women so who knows.)

This makes ZERO sense and you know it my friend. In fact, I had to read it 3x to make sense of his word salad. I'd explore narcissism and gaslighting with a qualified therapist because this mealy-mouthed statement is textbook gaslighting. So he's saying he loves dressing like a woman, loves looking a beautiful women, but doesn't like your va-jay-jay nor seeing you nude. So the bottom line is he likes women but just not you? Saying he doesn't find you attractive doesn't sound like love nor friendship in my opinion.  

3. We had a *decent* sex life for maybe a year when we first started dating. It quickly deflated.

"Decent." This is the biggest red flag in my opinion and I applaud you for making such an honest statement...but then you immediately start parroting his bullsh*t excuses, namely:  

4. Since we’ve been married, sex has ranged from once a week (at best) to a couple times a year, and at one point we had about a year long dry spell. He chalks this up to my sex drive being higher than his...

So it's your fault? This is called a blame shift and it's complete horsesh*t. 

5. ...him being tired/sore/stressed from work, and feeling repressed because vanilla sex is ‘boring’ (gee thanks) and he needs his fetishes (crossdressing, abdl, pegging, being dominated) to get him in that mindset.

Most men take about 5-15 minutes to reach climax during sex so the "I'm tired" excuse doesn't justify going a year without having sex with you. He's making a choice. He never seems too tired to post comments on his favourite sub forums about cross dressing and adults who wear diapers so the facts suggest he's avoiding sex with you. And he's shifting the blame on you yet again with this "vanilla sex" (read: sex with his wife) bullsh*t. Sounds like he has zero issue getting it up online or with other partners and yet he refuses to have sex with you. You deserve better.  

6. He’s admitted that his sex drive has virtually nothing to do with me. (Apparently that’s supposed to make me feel better?!) And I believe this, because he’s rarely ever seems aroused by ME, he usually seems either just randomly horny or he’s aroused by feminizing himself.

Ok so he's stated he's not sexually attracted to you. Is this a relationship worth saving? 

7. The stars have to align perfectly for him to get off during normal intercourse. Right now that makes sense...

No it doesn't make sense but I am familiar with closeted/questioning husband demanding straight wives jump through endless hoops before he'll agree to have sex. These can be (but aren't limited to): she has to shower; shave; lights off; lights on; only specific positions; she always has to be on top and so on. The bottom line is he's rejecting you sexually, and now cue the blame shift...

8. I just had a baby and it takes awhile for everything to fully bounce back, but 5 years ago? Pre-children? When we were both in our 20’s?! The only way he can get off is laying on his back, with his eyes closed, and not really participating much but receiving a lot of stimulation.

See a pattern? So he no longer wants to have sex with you because you had a baby...five years ago? Again, blame shift, gaslighting, and outright lying. Questions: what has he ever apologised, accepted blame, or promised to change? While I don't have a lot of information here, it sounds like he's wrongly blaming you for everything wrong with your relationship.  

9. He has absolutely no interest in performing anal and says it’s unsanitary, but he really really likes pegging (being on the receiving end of anal play).

This is classic gaslighting: up is down, left is right, anal is gross but I love it. Statement: I hate anal / unless you're performing anal on me. So he likes to be pegged or penetrated with toys/dildos.    

10. The first time he went down on me was 2 years into our relationship... on our honeymoon. He had no interest in trying it before that because it grossed him out.

Again, saying "I don't like your body" isn't love nor friendship.

11. He has since decided that he enjoys it, and even mentioned a few weeks ago that he prefers doing that to actual sex.

This is a classic diversion. It let's these men claim "we're still having sex because I'm doing oral on my wife" to distract from the fact that he can't get an erection, even with viagra or similar meds. I'm going to assume that you recently made noises about separation and divorce which then prompted his total about-face on performing oral on his wife. Remeber what he said: "It grossed him out..." and now "since decided he enjoys it." Pay attention to what happened between these statements. I'm going to assume you made noises about leaving him but feel free to confirm. 

12. Sometimes he seems to enjoy receiving blowjobs, sometimes it’s apparent that he’s annoyed by me and is waiting for it to end. (What kind of straight man gets annoyed by his wife wanting to give him blowjobs?!)

100% agree. Let's just assume he's not a "straight" man then. 

13. I used to jump through hoops trying to get his attention. He said he liked slutty clothes, so I wore them. He liked the goth-dominatrix look, I tried it. He liked the schoolgirl-Lolita look, I tried it. Etc. My closet used to look like the costume closet of a porn studio. I got wayyy to much attention from other men, but virtually none from him. He always wanted whatever I wasn’t.

This sounds a lot like an abusive relationship: meaning you believe the onus is always on you to fix his problems and yet he's never happy with you. I'd encourage you to discuss this with a mental health professional.  

14. He’s made several insensitive remarks about my looks over the years, basically insinuating that I’m not very attractive.

Again, is this love/friendship? One way to gain clarity over a situation is to imagine if your best (female) friend or perhaps an adult daughter came to you with the same story. What advice would you give them? 

15. He later excused these remarks by first saying that he thought talking about me that way was okay because he’s heard me say similar things about myself (I’ve got some self esteem issues due to past traumas) and later claiming that he wasn’t even talking about me. He was. Then he tells me he thinks I’m beautiful and all that jazz.

He's an abuser, not a husband. When you called him out on his abusive behaviour and mentioned boundaries he: 

- Shifted blame: "well you talk about yourself the same way"
- Distracted: "I wasn't talking about you..." 
- Gaslit you: "I don't think you're attractive...but now I think you're beautiful." 

16. He’s always been amused by the fact that he ‘passes’ for a girl well enough that men will occasionally check him out before noticing he’s a man. He claims it’s because he thinks the look on their face when they realize he’s a man is hilarious.

There is nothing funny about this. In fact it's deadly serious. He's telling you he likes attention from men. So he's now presenting/dressing as a woman in public, he likes to be on the receiving end of anal sex, and he enjoys when men are attracted to him. Is this man still your best friend and the love of your life?   

17. When we were arguing about his crossdressing/feminizing, I tried to put things in perspective by asking how he’d feel I started presenting masculine. What if I cut all my hair off, stopped shaving, never wore makeup or plucked my eyebrows or did any type of feminine grooming, and started wearing men’s clothes? He said it wouldn’t bother him as long as my personality was the same.

Says Mr. Personality. This man is a complete *sshole. You deserve so much better. I hope/pray your kids are ok. 

18. His love/attraction to me doesn’t really have anything to do with how I look.

And yet he's spent years telling you you're unattractive and that he isn't sexually attracted to you. He wants you to continue loving him unconditionally, even if when he's presenting as female. 

19. As I told him, if that’s true, then he’s an anomaly because I don’t think that’s normal at all.

100% agree! 

20. He’s on sub forums for crossdressers, trans people, feminine men, abdl [adult baby diaper lover], etc... He doesn’t post...

Lie.

21. but he comments.

That's posting. So again, he's lying. 

22. The comments all seem harmless and platonic, like he’s just encouraging friends with similar interest. Kind of the same way women pay each other compliments when we like each others hair/makeup/clothes. But it still makes me wonder.

Harmless and platonic? Wha? He's minimizing his behaviour. It's the same thing as, "Yes I cheated once but I thought of you the whole time." Or "I went to the sex shop but just browsed. Didn't buy a thing honey!" Again I think you're parroting his bullsh*t excuses/justifications. Years ago I had an exchange with a straight spouse whose husband frequented gay saunas, "but just to talk to other men" she added. I wrote back, "Well he ain't buying car insurance. Gay saunas are for gay sex, not conversation."     

23. He says he’s never cheated, and I 100% believe him. But what are the odds that all these little things are coincidental and due to the multitude of excuses I’ve been fed? He swears up and down that he’s straight (likes women). My intuition says that he might not realize it but he’d be happier with some kind of dominant drag queen... though I really really hope I’m wrong. Goodness gracious. Sorry about the novel. 

That's quite the story my friend. And no I don't believe his "never cheated" statement. Here are my suggestions: 

- Continue posting on your thread regularly.
- Read up on narcissism, gaslighting, and abusive relationships.
- Start seeing a qualified therapist who has experience with trauma and/or abused wives
- If you cannot afford a therapist, find a free support group and share all of this women who have gotten out of abusive relationships. 
- Re-write your entire story using your best (female) friend's name rather than yours. This should help you gain some perspective on your situation. For example, "Donna's husband Jim is a cross dresser, he refuses to have sex with her, and he's spent years saying he doesn't find her attractive." Then ask yourself: what advice would I give Donna? 

I have zero experience with cross dressing but I do know a thing or two about toxic, abusive, and dishonest husbands. And I believe your husband has abused you through his words, his sexual neglect, and his manipulations...for years. You deserve better than a sexless marriage to this complete *sshole. I can only imagine what all of this is doing to your poor child/children. Ask yourself: if my daughter were married to the same man, would I tell her to stay or get the f*ck out? I reckon you'd suggest the latter but feel free to answer in a follow-up post. Thinking of you and your family my friend. 

Last edited by Sean (March 11, 2022 6:11 am)

Still thinking. Yes, I'm being too nice. But, I don't want a life full of hostility. And I think motive matters. My husband is still in denial, lying to the world. But part of that is because he thinks he is supposed to: he thinks he is protecting me, and the family. I know, you are going to say that he's protecting himself and hurting the family, and yes, that is true, too. It is also true that he is gay and also true that he is a human being who has worked very hard to support the family and take care of us as best as he is able -- with a lot of convoluted work-arounds, because he was born a gay man into a family and a world that made that an unacceptable person to be. Many of my gay men friends credit their mothers for giving them the strength to be who they are. My husband did not have that mother. Her love is totally conditional, actually, it isn't even love. It is all about appearances, warped. So. I am going to have to get my son to a safe place - I agree that dad's closet is part of the problem, but Dad is also a major part of the solution, and I think we are going to get a scary diagnosis, maybe bipolar, maybe harder, from the hospital at the end of the month. Since the situation blew up, my husband has been working round the clock to help my troubled son. So. First things first, get son to safety, the gently restructure, in so far as I can control the gently. I want an honest life for myself, one in which I can breathe, but I do love the guy. And we got together in a very different world. Really hoping for a brighter future for a whole bunch of us. Sean, thanks again - and by the way, are you too hard on yourself?  What were your motives when you tried to play a role that was too hard? I bet some were generous, too. It is hard to get unstuck when that means dismantling a family, and losing a person who has been a life partner for quite some time.