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February 5, 2021 1:45 pm  #11


Re: Can’t sleep (again)

Everyone who's replied to Ep's thread has said basically the same thing that she did....our husbands/partners did what they did so as not to hurt us...bah!.…just bs!

Minimising our pain for the preservation of their own secret lives

Geez I wish we were all in a room, face to face talking about this. Not the men! Just the SS's

Elle


KIA KAHA                       
 

February 5, 2021 2:04 pm  #12


Re: Can’t sleep (again)

That would be a hoot! I think it would be so therapeutic to sit in a room and compare notes. I’m just so frustrated that he either isn’t emotionally honest enough to face this or just isn’t honest with me. I don’t think he knows himself well enough to know what he truly wants moving forward. He wants men or he wants me. Period. Answer the question and make a choice already. Don’t string me along on this torturous roller coaster of your own confusion. He knows I’ll never accept him having side flings...unless he thinks the counselor will help us come to some compromise? Also, yes...he’s sooo flippn jealous of any man EVER talking to me even. I kind of think it’s because he’s worried a straight guy might sweep me off my feet one day...he’s literally LOST it over something as simple as a local musician singing a song request to me...or me chatting with a total stranger at a Hootie concert, or inviting a friend to the casino with us. Basic life friendships and interactions have always been a threat to him. I guess it’s a prime example of projection at its best since I’ve never, and still can’t till this day, see myself being intimate with anyone else.

- Epiphany

     Thread Starter
 

February 5, 2021 4:27 pm  #13


Re: Can’t sleep (again)

Hi Epiphany, 

Early on my bi husband asked for a very specific “side” situation. It hadn’t occurred to him that I may ask for the same. Heck, it hadn’t occurred to me to ask for the same. But then I did. I said, “if we do this, I get equal opportunity.” He agreed as he’s a reasonable person and what’s fair is fair. I know that even though he agreed he was somewhat uncomfortable with the idea. To some extent this made him rethink his request and gain some understanding that it wasn’t necessarily a reasonable request and wasn’t something to be considered lightly. I was honest. I told him by nature I believe myself to strongly prefer monogamy. So I let it be known that if I found a side thing that eventually wanted monogamy with me I just might consider it. I wasn’t trying to be mean or manipulative, but I really feel that it’s difficult to make guarantees going forward with non-monogamy, at least for me. One year out, doing well, still monogamous...  

Tangled 

 

February 5, 2021 8:22 pm  #14


Re: Can’t sleep (again)

Epiphany wrote:

...... and still can’t till this day, see myself being intimate with anyone else.

 
Kinda like the whole Mindfuck has killed your libedo?

Or do you still sexually desire your husband and feel sexually bound to him...?

Elle


KIA KAHA                       
 

February 5, 2021 9:39 pm  #15


Re: Can’t sleep (again)

Epiphany wrote:

Also, yes...he’s sooo flippn jealous of any man EVER talking to me even. I kind of think it’s because he’s worried a straight guy might sweep me off my feet one day...he’s literally LOST it over something as simple as a local musician singing a song request to me...or me chatting with a total stranger at a Hootie concert, or inviting a friend to the casino with us. Basic life friendships and interactions have always been a threat to him.- Epiphany

Interesting... he could also be envious of your ability to attract decent men. He’d possibly like to be able to get the attention of the men you can get. 🤔 I’ve heard it been said by others that their gay/bi husbands are envious of the attention they can get from men. 

Last edited by TangledOil (February 6, 2021 6:35 pm)

 

February 8, 2021 12:11 am  #16


Re: Can’t sleep (again)

Elle, I am still attracted to him, he says he is to me as well...time will tell. I definitely have not lost my libido. I’m almost 42 and one of those women at this age who find their sexuality is actually increasing. That’s part of what is telling me that time is important here. I need to know EVERYTHING as soon as possible because knowledge is power and I need to have that knowledge to make the best choice moving forward. I think the answer to your question is more along the lines of being “sexually bound to him” as you put it. He’s really the only man I’ve ever been with! I know I could probably find someone else, and maybe the sex would be better...but I worry about the connection. I’m one of those people that needs to kind of fall in love before getting intimate. I’m trying sooo hard to figure out where he’s at in his brain so I know what I should do. We recently tried bringing his “fantasies” into the bedroom and it worked really well. He was very much into me after only 3 minutes of porn. He wanted to focus on me and all my lady parts and it gave us great hope moving forward! This I believe is possible because I do believe he’s bisexual rather than gay...if we separate I know he’ll be with other women (and men) in the future but probably mourn his loss of our love for a very long time. The bigger question is whether he can be monogamous or not. We are dealing with a family history of cheating in his side as well as the sexual orientation issues. We have counseling on Wednesday. I told him that I’m so angry about what he’s done and he really needs to think about the monogamy issue as our marriage depends on it. I will not do this forever and I will not be only half of someone’s everything...as hard as it would be to divorce, I know I’m young enough to still start over.

Tangled, I think he’s actually threatened when other men hit on me. Perhaps he knows that they might make me feel more like a woman or is worried he’s not enough since he is bisexual? Also, he’s been dealing with ED since 2017...after looking at A lot of things, I think his ED along with our communication/connection and intimacy issues fell along the same time line of him starting to wander towards men...underwear ads in Facebook and seeing who commented/liked them, led to him reaching out and then connecting him to secret groups...which led to Snapchat relationships of exchanging pictures and fantasies. Like porn, I think it shaped his desires for men. Now the question is whether he’s too far gone and swept up in that. He has to choose to share those fantasies and be with me while working through them or be with men and let me go. The big question his where his desires are really? What does he want more as my bisexual husband that loves me but is sexually attracted to men too, but also attracted to women and me? (He has Victoria Secret models and other famous women in his search history too...and he definitely got into me recently while intimate, this is how I know he’s bisexual). What can he live with and what can I live with? Monogamy is the issue here. I’m hoping he can decide if he wants me or several others..also thinking our connection really does matter, as far as communicating and sharing and hopefully reconnecting. I’m preparing to be on my own just in case.

Longway, what is TGT? Your situation does seem similar. I know I will not do and open relationship though, or pretend. If he wants one, I’ve told him we will cut off all Intimacy and live as friends...but that it won’t be long term.
I have to be honest, he is the breadwinner. I have no income and my only experience is in waitressing, retail and daycare. Heck, I worked 2 jobs when he was going to college. When we were young we literally argued about which of us got to go to school. He said we couldn’t afford for both of us to go so had to take turns (still haven’t gotten my turn!) I stopped singing with a band cause he didn’t like it (said that lifestyle was bad for our family)...I’ve self sacrificed over and over and OVER. My best friend believes he is holding me back because she says I’m a “wild child” unable to fully be myself. These are all issues I plan to present at counseling. I WILL be focusing on myself moving forward. Our children are 20, 18 and 12..1.5 year old granddaughter. It’s time for me to stop being holed up in this house, playing Mommy and Wife...and get out there!! We have a family vacation planned with my parents at the end of March to the beach. My kids are so looking forward to it! We have a HUGE graduation party planned for my 18 year old at the end of June. My husband’s company might sell in a year...we’ll get half a million after taxes...but he’s also looking at a new job opportunity. I have to keep all this in mind financially and emotionally , for my kids, and for my future. After vacation, I was hoping we’d invest in a professional camera for me ($2,000-3,000) dollars, followed by classes. So I could start my own photography business, mainly real estate photography but family/weddings portraits on the side. I’m a tad worried that my heart and soul are pushing for these truths about him too fast and I may not be able to hold out long enough to be financially smart. On the flip side, I’m hoping that since he’s bisexual and not gay, we might actually be able to make this work. He loves me, that I know. I love him. That I know...but am I ENOUGH, am I his EVERYTHING? Only he knows that. In the meantime, here I sit, waiting for his truth to come out. It’s absolute torture and I know my self worth will ultimately rule in the end. Grrr, what I wouldn’t give to be ruthless and cunning, why do I have to have such standards?!  I wear my emotions on my sleeve, really need to learn a poker face instead.

     Thread Starter
 

February 8, 2021 12:26 pm  #17


Re: Can’t sleep (again)

I’m currently in communication with a couple that opened their marriage after 20 years together. The husband is bi and the wife is straight. He was always honest with his wife and never cheated. She’s known about his bi-desires the entire time. She supported him in conversion therapy for many years. Obviously it didn’t work because conversion therapy doesn’t work. They opened their marriage a couple years ago. He says it isn’t easy... it hasn’t been easy especially for his wife. They both have individual therapists and also a couples therapist. He said he never wanted for their life to be like this... this complicated, but the reason it’s working so far is that his wife loves him more than she loves monogamy. 🤔 I thought that was rather profound, but I can also say most straight wives probably love monogamy more than they love their husbands. I’m probably somewhere right in the middle and that’s probably why I question myself and my decisions even though my husband is over it... understanding that monogamy is what works for us. 

I wish you the best, epiphany. None of this is easy. 

Tangled 

Last edited by TangledOil (February 8, 2021 12:29 pm)

 

February 8, 2021 1:43 pm  #18


Re: Can’t sleep (again)

"I thought that was rather profound, but I can also say most straight wives probably love monogamy more than they love their husbands."

I would say this is a false dichotomy, and profoundly unhelpful.  Blame-shifting, even. 

 

February 8, 2021 1:44 pm  #19


Re: Can’t sleep (again)

Epiphany wrote:

Elle, I am still attracted to him, he says he is to me as well...time will tell. I definitely have not lost my libido. I’m almost 42 and one of those women at this age who find their sexuality is actually increasing....

I remember those wonderful ' early 40s ' days because I felt like a strong sexual woman. Our robust sexlife was one of the things that made me feel I could do anything. I loved being a mother, loved being a partner, loved our life. Because I was in love I saw the open r'ship as a choice we made together, not as a hidden need of my partner to experiment and discover ' who he was '.

It's only now looking back that I see the signs I may have picked up on if I hadn't been so in love. Knowledge is power yes ..... But before you find out all you need to know ( and remember you may never be satisfied you know everything ).... You should start thinking about the other side of this, and what would happen, what you'd do.... If what you are told disturbs you still or doesn't sound genuine.

I was my partner's first lover and in hindsight... bah it wouldn't have made a difference because you don't get hindsight till your choices comes back to bite you in the arse!

Try a Mindshift from thinking of your husband's choices... To your own

Elle


KIA KAHA                       
 

February 8, 2021 2:17 pm  #20


Re: Can’t sleep (again)

Many of the threads here are hard to read. This one made me brace because my wife sounds like the men in this thread. Bleh.

Epiphany wrote:

I was trying to pull out of him if he really wanted an open marriage and he said he didn’t think so. He said he hadn’t taken the time to really look at what he wants (I think it’s obvious too, he’s just taking a very slow path to admitting it to himself and me fully). He cried when she asked what he would do if it was determined that he couldn’t fully satisfy me in our marriage and we went our separate ways and told her “I don’t want that”. Yet he enjoys this idea of having a side relationship which is the biggest smack in the face to me. It’s as though my heart and soul can see these huge red flags but his doesn’t. Or it doesn’t hurt him as much. I think he assumes that we will get through this no matter what because in the end he’ll do whatever it takes...he believes we are soul mates, meant to be etc... so then I find myself falling back into attachment and trust again till something like this happens. Every time these truths come out I’m just wanting him to tear the bandaid off but it’s like he can’t or won’t mentally/emotionally for himself. It’s some sort of torture. At times I believe we might come to a solution but then I see the strength of his desires to be with a man and think “how is this ever going to work again?”. Never in a million years did I see us here...I figured we could weather any storm together. This one is more like an asteroid hitting the earth though.

I've come to believe that they know what they want but enjoy keeping us on our toes by lying.

If they say "I'm gay, but I like your income" then we'll leave. So the shifting sands keep us panicked enough to allow them to do what they want. They can "discover" and "undiscover" new things each week like a soap opera.

As a man, the idea of an open marriage sounded interesting on paper. But like many things, when I really confronted it I was rage-filled. One party telling the other "let's undo the primary facet of this union...because I want" and acting like this is a magical gift? No thanks. I committed to a person for life in all the ways our vows stated. It's a desperation play, focused on getting us distracted so they can have 6 months of not having to confront reality: he's into men so much that makes a relationship with a woman tough.

You have every right to be angry. His not having a clear answer is an answer. Don't allow him to sow perpetual confusion because he wants to keep the status quo.

Oh, and fuck love. I will love my wife until I die, but she's a horrible human being. Love shouldn't be a death sentence to be trapped with a confused, cheating, liar.

 

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